ALB Conversion for 91 Model Year

[ATERPAK]

Well it was just a matter of a decade or so before my stock ALB unit started to give me problems. Yeah it's hard to believe this baby is 20 years old. Manufactured late 1990 as a 91 model year car. But I digress.

Seems even after I bled the system more than once and exercised it like crazy, that old pump motor was just coming on more and more and finally it just wouldn't shut off. When it first started the pump made a quick screeching noise and then ran non-stop. I finally had to pull the relay to keep from doing more damage to who knows what. So Chris at Science of Speed to the rescue.

After weighing the cost of either refurbishing the old unit, buying a new one or converting it, I opted for upgrading the system. Given the newer technology, better response of the ABS unit, and a loss of almost 20 lbs. of weight, and the cost, it was almost a no brainer.

The kit is very well setup and you get everything you need to do the job including a fairly decent set of instructions. The only two areas of trepidation are the installation of the new front brake lines and installing the new wiring harness through the firewall. The harness proved to be the harder of the two but once in things went pretty quickly. The only change to the instructions for me was I left the old ALB computer in the car rather than go through all the hassles of trying to remove it from under the dash. It can be done but it's a real hassle and I'm getting too old for that anymore. I also moved the cruise control unit over to give me more room to work, but it isn't really necessary.

From that point installing the new modulator unit and then reconnecting all the new hard lines was straight forward with Chris's instruction sheet making it even easier. I then checked everything to see if I had any extra parts, (no) and all parts were tightened to spec. and then bled the system twice. Back down on the ground I took it out for a test drive and everything worked as promised. No strange lights coming on in the dash, no smoke from any wiring and the brakes worked great. After 20 years you miss the sound of that motor whirring away like crazy but not for long.:biggrin:

So if you have to fix the damn thing, then do it right. Order the kit from Chris and look forward to another 20 years of trouble free operation.

Al T.

 

[nsx_2k]

Glad to hear that someone else had success in upgrading their system! I had done the same procedure months ago. I, too, was pleased with the ultimate outcome.

Interesting that you also found passing that large cable harness through the firewall a bit unnerving. I likened it to a woman giving birth to a 13lb baby. You just wonder how in the world that big ole' thing can pass through something so small.

I didn't think about leaving the ABS computer in the module stack. Actually, I'm not sure how you could easily get to the "jumbo" firewall grommet without removing the whole electronics stack. I suppose your more limber than I am

Chris' instructions are quite clear and the kit is complete. I believe the key is preparation and patience.

Additionally, I believe that due to the amount of work involved in the upgrade, I think that those, like you, who have finally had their ABS unit fail are the ideal candidates for the upgrade. For those, who can easily and successfully "flush" or "exercise" their ABS systems, their current method will suffice. I do wholly admit that the new system feels better than the original but the amount of work and cost associated with the upgrade may no be worth it to many.

 

[R13]

Good to see another successful story here. My ABS update kit was delivered on Friday and will be going in after I get back from the track (in my other car) next week.

I've spent my fair share of time up-side-down in the floor of the car already, so that won't be anything new for me :smile:

 

[NSX2398]

Add me to the list of those who have done it (over a year ago now on my '91) and have no regrets. I must admit there were times during the upgrade when I wondered if I'd gotten in over my head but the instructions were good and relatively easy to follow. I did remove the old module although I agree that it takes some dexterity to release a number of the electrical connectors. I'd also strongly recommend that you get a flare nut wrench that hinges at the head for easier access. When I went to bleed the brakes, I had a leak from one of the connections and almost couldn't get to it without undoing most of them. I wouldn't consider this a project for the faint hearted or DIY beginner. But the upgrade works as advertised.

 

[R13]

OK, I just thought this was pretty funny. That old unit is a friggin monstrosity compared to the new unit. They are not kidding when they say it saves 25lbs or more.

I got all of the old stuff out last night and did a little tidying up. Gonna go back the other direction tomorrow and see how far I get.

 

[mastaf]

Could you give a link to the SOS unit? thanks..

 

[shawn110975]

Go to Science Of Speed, click NSX products, click brakes, click NA1 Upgrade then you will have succesfully found the link yourself, LOL heres the link anyway LOL

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...ts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/NA2_ABS_System_Upgrade/

 

[warrenw]

hey does someone have the instructions available to post on Prime?
I for one, would like to see the instructions before purchasing the conversion kit.

thanks.

 

[shawn110975]

Just e-mailed SOS to see if they can post the instructions so we can see if we have the skills to do the ABS upgrade, I am sure they will post it cuz its just instructions ya know


If they post it they might make a lot of sales for this Item

 

[R13]

The most complicated thing I saw when I read them was splicing the old connector onto the new harness.

Otherwise, it's just unbolting lines and brackets. I picked up a 10mm flare nut "crow foot" and that made life A LOT easier on a couple of the lines since I could use a socket and extension to crack them loose without destroying anything (my fingers included).

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

hi Al & others --

Thank you for positing your review. Al gave us some great feedback to make some minor tweeks to the instructions to make them clearer. We welcome any recommendations on how to improve these. It sounds like making a list of tools required (like the 10mm flare wrench) would be a good idea. Any others?

regards,
-- Chris

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

I prefer to not post the instructions, they are ever changing when a good recommendation comes through and trying to document control would become difficult. I will post an overview with photos so that you understand what is involved.

If you have any questions though, please let me know.

thanks,
-- Chris

 

[R13]

I've been keeping some track as I'm going through the process. I will let you know if I come up with anything. A list of tools should be too complicated.

 

[shawn110975]

Thanks Chris, Let us know when you post some pics

SOS rocks!!

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

This is an general overview of the process:

1. prepare vehicle for removal of old parts and installation of new parts
   The old ABS parts and the front brake lines will be removed from the vehicle. To remove these parts and make way for the new parts, the spare tire is removed, the relay box is loosened, and the blower fan is removed.
   
2. remove old ABS assembly from vehicle
   The entire old ABS pump/modulator/accumulator system is removed from the car (you can see the comparison between old and new in the photo above).
   
3. remove old brake lines from front of car
   The new ABS system replaces the front brake lines. The rear lines are retained as they are connected to the valve block.
   
4. install new ABS components
   At this point, the new pump assembly is installed to the old bracket.
   
5. assemble brake lines to ABS unit
   At this point, we show how each line is connected to the ABS unit, distribution block, and valve block. As we note in the instructions, it is important to label each line with the part number so that you can match them to how the photos show the installation.
   
6. install harness
   Before the removed blower fan, etc. gets replaced, we then have you route the new supplied electrical harness between the cabin and front pump assembly.
   
7. install new harness plugs to factory harness
   Because the new ABS pump assembly puts the brains of the system into the pump/modulator assembly, we supply and electrical harness that allows the factory harness to connect to the new unit.
   
8. bleed system
   At this point, the brakes are bled just like the car is normally bled. The new ABS system shares the regular brake reservoir, so no separate bleeding of the ABS system is needed.

This whole process takes us around 7-8 hours to accomplish. If it's your first time, 10-12 hours could probably expected. There is nothing technically difficult to install the kit and everything can be done with standard hand tools. However, it does require patience and skill with hand tools.

regards,
-- Chris

 

[Chris NSX]

Here are some pictures and part numbers from my upgrade

ABS Upgrade Harness

Modulator Assy ----- 57110-SL0-Z03

Bracket Modulator ----- 57116-SL0-000

Valve Assy Proportioning -------- 46210-SL0-003
Bracket Proportioning Valve ----- 46215-SL0-000
Rubber,ABS Mounting ----------- 57101-S2A-003

Pipe S Brake ----- 46372-SL0-D00
Pipe T Brake ----- 46373-SL0-D00
Pipe U Brake ----- 46374-SL0-D00
Pipe V Brake ----- 46375-SL0-D00
Pipe W Brake ----- 46376-SL0-D01
Pipe X Brake ----- 46377-SL0-D01
Pipe Y Brake ----- 46378-SL0-D00
Pipe Z Brake ----- 46379-SL0-D01

I did not take pictures of these below

Bolt,ABS Mounting ----- 57102-S2A-003
Nut Washer(6mm) ----- 94071-06080
Bolt Flange(6x16) ----- 95701-06016-05

Look at my thread for the upgrade.

 

[shawn110975]

I wonder how much you could get all the parts for from a dealer if it would be cheaper? or people on a budget to buy each part one by one ya know, the pricey item would be the main unit though, hummmm makes me wonder

 

[Chris NSX]

The most complicated thing I saw when I read them was splicing the old connector onto the new harness.

This is the OEM orange clip you will need to connect the white and black wires. I removed the old clip form the old ABS system remove the wires with a small screwdriver and then snap in the wires from the New ABS harness.

So, i have the harness but don't know where the loose wires connect to.

From this pic:

i don't know where the black and white wires connect to.


and from this one:

i don't know where the 3 wires connect to:
- Yellow with Blue stripe and one red dot
- Blue with Red stripe and one red dot
- Black with tow red dots (by the look of the connector, i think it's a ground, right)

The black and white wires, the power for the ABS system. (White with Blue stripe and Black) the OEM wires, I had to remove from the orange clip. The white is 12v+ and the black wire is ground.

On the other end just find a good ground and ground the wire with the loop. the other wires you leave alone they are for the ABS diag.

 

[R13]

I am slightly confused. Let me outline what I did and maybe someone can tell me if this is normal (i.e. I just haven't bled it enough) or if I've got something on backwards (hopefully very unlikely).

So, in this order:

-Removed old system
-Installed new system (wires/plumbing/etc.)
-Vacuum Bleed all four corners.

After bleeding, I test the pedal. It pumps up, but if I apply moderate force, it will go down some. I turned the car on, and I there are no ABS/Brake warning lights. However, the pedal goes straight to the floor. There are no fluid puddles.

Logic suggests that there is just still a ton of air in the system, but I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything here.

The rear seemed to vacuum bleed pretty easily. Old fluid, followed by a bunch of air, followed by new fluid...fair enough.

I never could get the bubbles to stop on the fronts and I went through way more than the volume of the MC & lines worth of fluid. I thought maybe it was sucking air in somewhere under vacuum, but could not find any leaks. I changed tactics and let it gravity bleed on the fronts and quickly stopped seeing bubbles. This was all before I turned the car on though. Were there some passageways in the new ABS unit that require it to be energized to open or something, or are the front brakes just THAT cantankerous to bleed?

 

[nsx_2k]

R13,

How many times did you bleed the system? Sounds like you did it twice?

I had the same exact soft, soggy brake pedal. I had to bleed mine a few times (4 if I remember correctly) to ultimately get all the air out. If you are still experiencing bubbles, you may have a leak in one of the connections (ie. at the connection between the hard line and junction with the flex hose for the caliper) or air is possibly passing around a loose bleeder valve.

A few other things to check

1) I don't believe that it is good for the pedal to go all the way to the floor (you can search here on prime for commentary regarding damaging the master cylinder by doing such a maneuver). If you have a pedal that is initially firm, but then it slowly sinks to the floor, you may have a faulty master cylinder. I did and after replacing it, things were pretty nice. After the upgrade, I would only entertain this thought after you have thoroughly bled the system.

2) If you get super frustrated, you might consider purchasing a set of Speedbleeders. They are quite helpful after you have purged the bulk of the air out of the system (which it sounds like you did). They seem very effective in getting those tiny little air bubbles out.

3) Not sure about the passageways within the ABS system. I don't believe that there is any "special" passages. So I don't think you have to exercise the system to evacuate any extraneous air.

4) Regarding the ABS light, does the ABS light come on at all? Do you hear the relay click (the one attached to the wiring harness inside the car)? Although, my car is in storage and I haven't started it up, if I recall correctly, the light should come on very briefly at start up and quickly extinguish. Out of curiosity, were you able to drive the car around at all in the safety of a non-public roadway to see if the ABS can kick-in?

5) As for difficulty bleeding, the fronts are the easiest (at least for me) cause they have shortest length from the master cylinder while the rears were the most difficult to the length of the brake lines.

 

[Jin1976]

Is the new ABS unit for LHD same as the RHD? If not what are the different parts? My ABS unit still works but the reservoir is yellowing.

Thanks.

 

[Chris NSX]

The ABS unit should fit both LH and RH NSX, the brake lines are different.

Here is the US part # 57110-SL0-Z02

 

[R13]

R13,

How many times did you bleed the system? Sounds like you did it twice?

I bled the fronts 2x and the rears 1x so far.

A few other things to check

1) I don't believe that it is good for the pedal to go all the way to the floor (you can search here on prime for commentary regarding damaging the master cylinder by doing such a maneuver). If you have a pedal that is initially firm, but then it slowly sinks to the floor, you may have a faulty master cylinder. I did and after replacing it, things were pretty nice. After the upgrade, I would only entertain this thought after you have thoroughly bled the system.

The MC is ~6mos old, and when I say "went to the floor" I did not literally jam it all the way to the bottom of its stroke. I think you'll find I am probably part of the commentary on Prime advising against doing that .

2) If you get super frustrated, you might consider purchasing a set of Speedbleeders. They are quite helpful after you have purged the bulk of the air out of the system (which it sounds like you did). They seem very effective in getting those tiny little air bubbles out.

My time is free to me, so if it's just an issue of more bleeding, so be it. I was just a bit confused because I bleed the brakes on my track car using the same method and it's about one round per corner and the pedal is a rock.

3) Not sure about the passageways within the ABS system. I don't believe that there is any "special" passages. So I don't think you have to exercise the system to evacuate any extraneous air.

4) Regarding the ABS light, does the ABS light come on at all? Do you hear the relay click (the one attached to the wiring harness inside the car)? Although, my car is in storage and I haven't started it up, if I recall correctly, the light should come on very briefly at start up and quickly extinguish. Out of curiosity, were you able to drive the car around at all in the safety of a non-public roadway to see if the ABS can kick-in?

With the '91-'00 ABS system, that is true, the system will run and pressurize briefly on start up (more often if it's on the way out). What I've done here is replace that older style system with a newer electronic system that will not exhibit that same behavior. No, I was not able to drive the car as I had no brakes when I checked them at idle in my garage.

5) As for difficulty bleeding, the fronts are the easiest (at least for me) cause they have shortest length from the master cylinder while the rears were the most difficult to the length of the brake lines.

This was the case when I swapped the Master Cylinder 6 months ago, which is why I figured I'd ask.

 

[EdinKali]

When using a vacuum bleeder it sometimes helps to put a little teflon tape on the threads of the bleeder screw so that it doesn't suck air past the threads.

 

[R13]

When using a vacuum bleeder it sometimes helps to put a little teflon tape on the threads of the bleeder screw so that it doesn't suck air past the threads.

Did that. The threads on the front calipers seem particularly course (maybe just because they are new. Calipers are re-man). It's possible, but not really likely IMO, that I didn't use enough.