After 90k service, getting CEL code P0336

[Yawwn]

Hello all,
I recently had a 90k service on my silver NSX, including replacing the timing belt.
After doing so, I got a Check Engine light. I used the paper clip method of pulling the code, and saw that it had 4 long blinks and 2 short blinks, which corresponds to the following:

"Crankcase Position Sensor"
4 CKP Sensor Position A
P0336 CKP Sensor A Range/Performance


I took it back to him, and told him of the situation. He said that it was not his fault.
Could what the mechanic done have caused this? It was too much of a coincidence that this occurred after him working on my car. I have never had a CEL prior to this.

What is the suggested repair of this, and any estimates on what it would cost?

He said that if I take it to a third-party, and it was determined that it was his fault, he would pay. How would they determine if he was responsible?

Somewhat unrelated, he had put in iridium spark plugs in the 90k service, which caused my radio to tick. After researching on Prime that it could be the spark plugs, I took it back today, and he swapped it for Honda OEM plugs, which fixed the issue.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[comtec]

Hate to ask but did he plug it back in?

That's right where he was working so i would say it's a good chance he could have done something or forgot to. You paid for the service and it's their responsibilty to make sure the job is done right. If it cel'ed after the service then they should back up their work and fix the problem. I can see you maybe having to pay for the part and gaskets if they haven't damaged it, but not for the labor.

That's the responsibilty you take when providing a service.


Mike

 

[Yawwn]

Good question. I think he has it in there, as the CEL didn't show up until a few weeks after he completed the service. If he didn't have it in there, I imagine the CEL would have showed up immediately after I picked up the car.
I wonder if he loosened it, or damaged it in some way such that it took some time for the error to appear.

Thanks for your thoughts though.

 

[Daedalus]

First off, what year is the car? If you're using a paper clip, does that mean it's an NA1? Code 42 on an NA1 is rear o2 sensor heater. If it was bad the day you got it back, you would have gotten a CEL then. You can see if maybe the connector isn't clicked into place properly.

Assuming it is the crank sensor, this is not something that needs to be removed (at least on the NA1s), or else I would wonder if it was overtorqued with some latent damage.

Either way, a few weeks is a few weeks. Unless the next guy finds some evidence of obvious physical damage to the part, I personally think you need to give the 1st guy the benefit of the doubt here and chalk it up to bad luck. It happens.

 

[comtec]

Either way, a few weeks is a few weeks. Unless the next guy finds some evidence of obvious physical damage to the part, I personally think you need to give the 1st guy the benefit of the doubt here and chalk it up to bad luck. It happens.

If it was a few weeks, that's a different story. I took it from the first post that it cel'ed when the work was done.

 

[pgilliam1]

Code 42 is bank1 sensor1, O2 heater circuit.

Problems 2 weeks later and your blaming the tech. That's a bit of a stretch IMO.

 

[Yawwn]

First off, what year is the car? If you're using a paper clip, does that mean it's an NA1? Code 42 on an NA1 is rear o2 sensor heater. If it was bad the day you got it back, you would have gotten a CEL then. You can see if maybe the connector isn't clicked into place properly.

Assuming it is the crank sensor, this is not something that needs to be removed (at least on the NA1s), or else I would wonder if it was overtorqued with some latent damage.

Either way, a few weeks is a few weeks. Unless the next guy finds some evidence of obvious physical damage to the part, I personally think you need to give the 1st guy the benefit of the doubt here and chalk it up to bad luck. It happens.

Hey Daedalus,
The car is a 1991. It is OBDI.
I thought it was the Crankcase Position Sensor based on the wiki on the trouble codes:
http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Trouble_Codes

"Long blinks indicate the main code, short blinks indicate the sub code. "
I have 4 long blinks and 2 short blinks, so based on the instructions, it looks like 4 is the main code, and 2 is the sub code. Am I reading this incorrectly, and is this actually code 42?? If so, then I guess I have... Rear Primary HO2S Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 1)

If someone can tell me what my code is, I would appreciate it.
Here is the video I took of the blinking...

http://youtu.be/M2XI51yEG5c

Thanks.

 

[Yawwn]

I understand people's concerns about the time frame, but at the same time, I didn't drive the car for that time. I bought another car just before the service, and have been spending a lot of time driving the new one, so this NSX just sat until I drove it and then the CEL appeared.

 

[Daedalus]

The latter--Code 42 is the O2 sensor heater. Good news here is that replacing an O2 sensor (worst case probably) is much cheaper than replacing a crank sensor. Check the connector (or unplug the sensor and check continuity on the heater circuit). If still no good, replace, move on and enjoy.

It's simply challenging to fathom what could have been done where the circuit would go from closed to open AFTER you drove it home. I'm 99% certain the CEL will come on the second it sees an open loop in the heater circuit. A loose connector is the only thing I can think of. Seriously, if the connector is hooked up properly, and the wires look good, it's most likely just one of those unfortunate things.

Links have been posted before. If you need a sensor you can get OEM-made parts for under $100, or a dealership part for a good deal more.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

The connector for this sensor is in the far back corner on the passenger side of the engine bay, on the valve cover lower corner. It is gray, 4 pin. It IS removed and reinstalled during the T/B Service. It may just not be snapped together.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[EdinKali]

If the connector is properly snapped together it is probably time to replace the O2 sensors. I think they are supposed to replaced every 60K miles or so if I recall correctly. I just bought both O2 sensors for my 92(genuine Denso brand) from Amazon for ~$80(shipping was free). One was about $50 and the other one was about $30.

 

[Yawwn]

Thank you gents.
I really appreciate all of your help.

I'm sorry I wasn't able to respond sooner. I have been working on changing out the spark plugs on the Gemballa all weekend with my buddy. For that, you need to take off the bumper and the two intercoolers on either side to access the coil packs and plugs. It's not so bad now that I have had experience with it.

It looks like you all viewed the video and verified that I have code 42, and not 4, subcode 2.
I checked the connector to the sensor, and it seemed to be connected. I could not disconnect it to try and reconnect it, because the button/tab on the side didn't seem do do anything to release the connection, so I was only able to just keep pressing it together to ensure that it was attached. I'm still getting the CEL, even after resetting by taking out the clock fuse, so it looks like I will have to replace the sensor.
Thanks for the heads up about Amazon, as well as other options. I'll have to look into it.
In the meantime, is it safe to still drive it in the current condition?

 

[Daedalus]

Yes, safe to drive with a code 42.

 

[Yawwn]

Thanks Daedalus!

 

[ftuhy]

A few years ago I changed the TB on my '96. All was well, until one week later when I was winding it out to 8,000 rpm, on comes the MIL/CEL. At that point, my heart stopped --- what did I do wrong???

Well, I pulled the code and the heater blew on one of the O2 sensors. 6 months later that happened on another O2 sensor. The sensor's heater blowing appears to be a weakspot on the NSX's OEM sensors for some reason. I had an american car with a 3.0 V6 that uses the same sensor and never blew a single one in 140k mi.

So, if code 42 for your '91 is for the O2 heater, I think the failure is a coincidence. My '96 is OBDII, so the codes in my manual might be different. I just don't know if you have the right code interpretation.

 

[Yawwn]

Hi Frank,
Thank you for sharing your experience. I appreciate you taking the time to help me diagnose my problem.
It looks like a coincidence that the CEL appeared shortly after my service.
I will look into replacing one or both sensors.
I will do a search for the DIY on how to replace them.

Thanks again, Prime brothers!

 

[Yawwn]

Hi All,
Just a quick update that I did replace the O2 sensor, and that did the trick! The CEL is gone.
Just to give you all a heads-up, it was ridiculous how tight the O2 sensor was. We almost totally stripped the hex of it using the sensor tool, but ended up getting it out by this method.


-Took off the exhaust (not because of this O2 sensor replacement, but because I was changing exhausts between my two NSXs) which really made it easier to access the O2 sensor.
-WD-40 soak it a few times.
-Cut the O2 sensor cables.
-Find out the rest of the sensor is still too long for the socket, so use a grinder to cut the sensor in half.
-Take off the aluminum triangular beam to get better space and leverage.
Use a paper towel to wedge between what remains of the O2 sensor and the socket. Hit it a couple of times with a hammer to really get it on there.
-Use tons of elbow grease (my friend's arms) to torque it open. CRACK! and finally it's unthreading!

Add grease to the new O2 sensor and tighten just enough that it won't ever do this again.

Install the Comptech exhaust.

I think the sensor was so tight because it was pretty much rusted in from being on the car for over 21 years.

Thanks again to you all to help me diagnose the problem!

 

[ftuhy]

Glad to hear the sensor solved your problem. And yes, they do become rather rusted and heat "welded" in after 21 years. Time for a cold beer, or 2 or 3 or .......:biggrin:

 

[shawn110975]

was the person that did your timing belt an NSX Cert Mech?

for a mech to say its not his fault

I would not go back to him.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

was the person that did your timing belt an NSX Cert Mech?

for a mech to say its not his fault

I would not go back to him.

Since it was not his fault, should he lie to keep you as a customer?

This is like a painter came into your house, painted a room for you, the next day a lamp bulb burns out, and you blame the painter and would not use him again.

And just to be clear, that is exactly what a "42" code is, a burnt out heater on the 02 sensor, just like a bad lightbulb. And BTW this is not so far fetched an issue, I have many cars that have 02 sensors randomly fail like this. Before or after service.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[nsxtasy]

If the connector is properly snapped together it is probably time to replace the O2 sensors. I think they are supposed to replaced every 60K miles or so if I recall correctly.

There is no specified interval for replacing oxygen sensors in the maintenance schedule. You replace them when you get a CEL indicating a problem with them.