Advice on a car with a story

UberNSX

UberNSX

Contributing Member
Joined
16 June 2010
Messages
112
Location
Northern Virginia
I've been looking around for a while, and I promised myself I'd never consider one with a story, but I'm getting close to finally piecing it together just now, and I'm still not sure quite what to do.

The story is, it was an '01 T on a lease. At some point it got into an accident, front-end, that doesn't show up on CarFax (thanks for the info Mike!). Was subsequently put on blocks for over 2 years, but was eventually repaired, returned to Acura dealer and then moved at auction. So that's 3 red flags right there. However, from that point it's lived a pretty normal life. It's been driven 50K since the incident, over the past 5 years, regular oil changes, etc. I'd think if there was a huge issue it would have been apparent by now.

Possible courses of action:

1) Run
2) Armed with the additional knowledge, get a PPI and if it checks out and frame is straight, go ahead with it?
2a) Factoring in this history and assuming everything else is clean and engine is strong, what would be your price guidance?
3) If PPI doesn't check out, of course, all bets are off.

What advice might you have? I'm severely torn. The '01 is something I was stretching to obtain, but it's important that it's not a bomb waiting to explode too.
 
I vote for #1. There are plenty of cars out there if you are patient. What makes you want an '01? The last year of the pop-up style headlights?
 
what is your budget?......And what is the current asking price on the 01 with story?
 
Budgetwise, I can handle about 40. This is a little less, not much, but certainly on the low end of that vintage. I was seriously looking at that 98 outside of San Jose weekend before last for 34 but it got snapped up quick.

Reason for the '01, yeah, NA2 targa with flip-ups is my ultimate preference. I would consider NA1 as an entry-level; maybe that would be smarter than going all the way right off the bat.

Thing is I booked a flight well before finding out any of this, in order to be around at the PPI (was being optimistic). So in a sense, it doesn't hurt to go see for myself. A touch naive perhaps, but if I end up walking away I'll consider it a "tax on stupidity."

P.S. The info I got on the accident was that it wasn't bad, and the repair was good, but the dealership still didn't want to be selling it, I presume since there's disclosure and all that. No explanation on why it was taken off the road for that length of time.
 
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Spend the $40k on a car with no stories. That might mean not getting this '01, but it also means you'll be getting a car you'll have no doubts about.
 
I kind of go to #1 too. With that said if you get a ppi and you're there might as well give it the once over. Worst thing it could turn up was frame damage that was straightened out. That makes it hard as hell to sell - so you gotta be thinking that if I ever sell I'm going to have to find another guy like "me" - right. That's the old needle in the haystack, man!

That's what makes buying one like that hard to do. It's the resale value that'll get you. Like D says there are plenty out there and more now than in a while and it's going to be that way for a while longer. Accident damage unless you can absolutely show it was superficial damage - like a replaced panel or something - that may not be too bad - but that's the only way I'd buy one like that.
 
your 40 ish budget should allow you a nice 97-01 T and even put you in the range of 02 and up with a similar story to this car you are describing.I would pass and keep looking.
 
2 things that would worry me... was it fixed properly? and why did it sit for 2 years? I would probably walk away... unless it was a super deal, then maybe worth checking it out...
 
First of all Doc is RIGHT! Do what he says - imho.

But for sure go to c) get the ppi before flying out - most likely you won't be flying out.
 
eyecandy said:
2 things that would worry me... was it fixed properly? and why did it sit for 2 years? I would probably walk away... unless it was a super deal, then maybe worth checking it out...
Click to expand...

According to Mike (The Kid), he remembered it being fixed properly, but they still sent it to auction rather than sell it as a lease return. He also said he wouldn't let it be a disqualifier because it was not that major, and that the price isn't completely out of line. But still, no idea why it sat 2 years, and that's going to be an albatross going forward for sure.

It wouldn't be a "super" deal, where it's at, but I wasn't planning to purchase with the idea of looking to flip it. So if all the mechanicals are in A1, and the interior is super clean, and there's no sign of frame-straightening and the repairs consisted of something minor, then I don't know, that's kinda what I'm looking for. And it will have been checked more thoroughly than most cars, too.

At this point it's too late to get the PPI in before I see it with my own eyes. So I'll try to stay as logical as possible.
 
Mike aka Kid is a known quantity and he is in "the business" so that adds some comfort,but my opinion stands.
 
I would get a PPI done before travelling. I remember the car being pretty good but when it comes to NSX's, I try to stay away from cars with paintwork. That being said, I bought the car from AHFC and ran it at the auction. Aluminum cars arent the easiest to repair, but I kinda remember the work being very, very good. It was 5 years ago, and my memory isnt the best:redface:

But, prices seem to be holding steady and while the "right cars" are always pulling strong money. Cars with an edge sometimes make sense. Sounds like a PPI is a must before moving forward and patience is a MUST when NSX shopping. I waiting years for the right car, and even longer for my second.
 
Thanks to all that responded so far. At this point I have to go off the grid for a bit but I'll be checking in tonight. I know the consensus is walk away, The Kid and tbromley have given criteria where they'd consider it. I gotta go clear my head, bbiab :)
 
Just be sure to go in with a clear head and dont get "caught up in the moment" if youre not 100% sure. Good luck with your decision.
 
like everyone else said, RUN! you can get a NICE NSX with NO stories for 40k or less. I'm sure there's a reason why it sat on blocks for two years. it just doen't make any sense to buy a car like that that's been wrecked, for that much money.

Right now on autotrader there are 7 NSXs from years 97 up between 30-42,000.

Here's a '99 with 48k on it for only $30,800

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...n=&max_price=42000&cardist=761&standard=false
 
I've bought around 15 used vehicles, and only twice did I ever compromise and buy one that had a small "story". Both of those times I had the dealer do a PPI to verify which came back clean.

Ends up those were the only two cars that I've ever owned that ended up being a nightmare for me. That's just my experience. Sounds to me like you have a decent enough budget to wait for a clean one. Good luck!
 
jacobzking said:
like everyone else said, RUN! you can get a NICE NSX with NO stories for 40k or less. I'm sure there's a reason why it sat on blocks for two years. it just doen't make any sense to buy a car like that that's been wrecked, for that much money.

Right now on autotrader there are 7 NSXs from years 97 up between 30-42,000.

Here's a '99 with 48k on it for only $30,800

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...n=&max_price=42000&cardist=761&standard=false
Click to expand...

Im not saying he shouldnt run... but come on... Everyone is saying how easy it is to get perfect cars with "no stories" all day long... Suuuure it is. Want to make a bet that if I go check out the one you linked with my buddy we spot an immediate story?

The car being discussed here doesnt *appear* to have a story either at a casual glance, yet we know it does.

This happens so much. There are FAR more cars *with* stories than without when you start talking about "great prices". Especially with the NSX which is 1) a sports car and prone to accident dmg like all sports cars and 2) a car with very low production.

I think lots of folks are really kidding themselves about cars having no paintwork. Id wager that a LOT of folks who think they got a car that was a pristine virgin for some great price have a car that a pro will spot accident dmg on.

My friend does this kind of a living and out of 15 *certified pre-owned* BMWs we looked at for another friend of ours, *all* of them had accident dmg and paint work and *all* were lease returns.

I dont think it helps the guy to point at random lowballer links on autotrader and say "look how many PERFECT cheap cars there are!"

Lets find a car that we *know* is perfect and has *no story* as *verified* by NSX Prime and see what it is selling for. If there are so many around, shouldnt that be a very easy challenge?

I bought COMPDNSX's car and he had bought it from CRUZMM. Cerito and Autowave both worked on the car and felt it was great with no stories and perfect. Its a well known car from Prime and when Luis (CRUZRMM) bought it, it was supposedly pretty virgin and had barely 15k on it. Well I'm almost positive the rear passenger quarter was painted. Which is fine because I love the car... but its pretty funny how many folks felt the car was virginal when I'd wager it wasnt.

Unless you bought the car NEW and have held it since, or *really* know your stuff or have someone who does, you CANNOT be sure that a car hasnt had paint. A PPI wont show it. You need a GREAT body guy like Joe to *really* give you an idea. Even buying new is questionable... I bought my 03 new and when I sold it to Porsche, the consignment guy who they were pushing it off on *swore* that the trunk lid was painted. I *never* had that done. Everyone agreed that they were either wrong and the depth scanner wasnt telling the tale, or the dealer had done it pre-delivery. Either way Porsche leaned on them to just fork over the asking price and get it over with.
 
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^^^I agree that a PPI wont give you any indication of accident history. You need a good body guy with a keen eye. Looking at gaps between body panels, heads on fasteners, looking for paint overspray, crawling under the car and looking inside of fender liners is the only way to really know what you are getting.
 
I'm back now.

I think I read on this forum once that "every car has a story, it's up to you to find out what it is". Mlambert kind of alluded to that. So I've been thinking. That 2+ year hole is really inexplicable, especially on a lease. It just plain was not driven until it was returned. That's the biggest downside to me, more so that the repair. When it goes to resale, anyone diligent will notice that, and that it went to auction, even though it has no record of accident or repair.

Counterbalancing that is Mike's take that it was not really severe, and that he wouldn't let it be a dealbreaker. He's the only one that actually saw the car to make an assessment of the the repair so far. Also a fairly nondescript history of regular use since then, for 5 years. The guy who has it now, has had another NSX in the past, and according to him (vested interest, I know) there's nothing in the fit, finish or performance to suggest anything untoward. Myself, I have slender history with driving NSX so I wouldn't know anyway.

All that can realistically be done is forensics at this point. But to what end? If I didn't have plane tickets and a deposit out there, I'd probably take a pass. The deposit is contingent on everything checking out, and so far it's not, but there is the PPI yet to be done.

The question I keep asking myself is: if it checks out on PPI, and frame trueness, and it's clean and has no fluid leaks and passes every test that's on the NSX Prime buyers checklist, does that 2 year gap still disqualify it, or just diminish it? And if it diminishes it, to what extent? If a truly "clean" comparable specimen is worth $40k or $45k without this knowledge, then what's it worth now? $38? $37? $35? $30? My goal to owning an NSX is two-fold: to drive it, and to work on it. It may in a distant future end up being collectible, but it was made to drive and I intend to.

This is a lot of questions to come up with answers to in a short time, I know. Prudence is certainly in order. My gut instinct is pass, especially since this is the first one I've actually lined up the finding for, but the deus ex machina says I'm going to have to see it for myself before I do pass, and chalk it up the flight and PPI to experience, unless I'm mightily convinced otherwise.
 
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Hey Uber,

Mlambert makes great points but I believe we may be reading him a little wrong and I'm sure he'll chime in if I am misinterpreting his words. I think what he's saying is that there are lots of cars out there with stories and to find one that doesn't have one is rare indeed. Those are usually the ones I've seen that come at a real premium. You have to ask yourself what it is that you have to have. If mos of us are buying cars with some paint and body work or what ever - like mine - it has some paintwork to the plastic bumpers - front and rear. It has some movement from owner to owner in the early years but for the last 15 years it was with 2 owners. I got a pile of records and a good car and I've made it better.

What's the point - I beleive that unless you want to wait an undetermined amount of time for the PEEEEEERfect car then this one may not be bad at all and if you could get it for 36 or 37k you'd be doing ok possibly if there was no frame damage. That's the big deal to me on these cars. That's the big deterant to buying any used sports car! That will hurt you on resale. Heck my tale may hurt my resale if someone is looking for the "pristine" car - no - yadayadayada. No one is going to sit here and say all cars that have had paint should be sent to the crusher.

BTW it was me that said all cars have a story and it's your job to find out what it is. Are those stories all deal breakers - no. This car your looking at may have a story - a ppi done by the right person/shop will tell you about the condition of the mechanicals - a good body man can tell you about paint and other things - I might be inclined to have a body shop look at it if the ppi raises questions that you think are important to answer. Otherwise it may be a real good car. Good records on maintenance, a little body work as in a replaced panel and no frame damage - what's the big deal if it's a good car overall. You want a driver? You want a car that has been maintained - yes. You want a car that is straight and interior is nice and is an NA2 for a good price - this one may just fit that bill.

Is it perfect - maybe not but what the heck - many of us have less than perfect cars - does that mean we enjoy the experience any less - no. My car is as perfect as I can make it - well maintained - runs great and I love it - you'll find that car and this one could be it. Get the ppi and go from there. See what you think and if you get a real good deal - then so much the better.

Enjoy the ride and make sure you're getting what you pay for. Keep us informed - you'll do fine - follow the steps and see where this road takes you.
 
tbromley said:
BTW it was me that said all cars have a story and it's your job to find out what it is.
Click to expand...

Then you are wise, sensei :)

tbromley said:
Are those stories all deal breakers - no.
Click to expand...

I keep going back to what Mike told me. He himself thought what was done on this car wasn't a dealbreaker, except for meeting the standards his dealership offers. Something like that anyway. A lease return with a history, if you can flip it for a profit in 1 day as opposed to dealing with explaining the history and whatnot in a retail environment for weeks or months, I can see doing that.

tbromley said:
This car your looking at may have a story - a ppi done by the right person/shop will tell you about the condition of the mechanicals - a good body man can tell you about paint and other things - I might be inclined to have a body shop look at it if the ppi raises questions that you think are important to answer. Otherwise it may be a real good car. Good records on maintenance, a little body work as in a replaced panel and no frame damage - what's the big deal if it's a good car overall. You want a driver? You want a car that has been maintained - yes. You want a car that is straight and interior is nice and is an NA2 for a good price - this one may just fit that bill.
Click to expand...

That's exactly it. And apart from the info from Mike, and the 2-year gap in '03 and '04, that's exactly what this looks like. I've also talked to the dealerships that have done the subsequent work on the vehicle and their recollections are that it's a very clean and nice specimen. And it's ALWAYS had oil/filter, every 3k to 4k miles. That's completely documented. I wouldn't consider anything that didn't.

tbromley said:
Is it perfect - maybe not but what the heck - many of us have less than perfect cars - does that mean we enjoy the experience any less - no. My car is as perfect as I can make it - well maintained - runs great and I love it - you'll find that car and this one could be it. Get the ppi and go from there. See what you think and if you get a real good deal - then so much the better.

Enjoy the ride and make sure you're getting what you pay for. Keep us informed - you'll do fine - follow the steps and see where this road takes you.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm trying to do, but I'm still not sure if I'll know I'm doing it right :redface: Even with the history, the sense I get from folks I talk to is that mid-30's to upper-30's might be the right range for an '01 T with that mileage, if PPI and my own inspection check out.

I wouldn't want a museum piece like that 2000 mile '92. Jay Leno can have that. If the car drives as intended, that's paramount. And it's definitely been driven for the last 5 years at least. I sure wouldn't be the first guy taking a shot at it after it came off the lease after sitting, but at least there's some track record since then. And frankly, that record is 80% of the entire travel of the car. But yeah, I've gotten burned on misrepresented used cars before - it gave me the impetus to learn what makes them go, and conversely, what makes them not go.

The frame is the big key, I think, gotta get it on the alignment machine, make that a contingency before anything else. Mike wasn't sure if there was a frame issue or not. PPI should at least indicate something. But, if it's straight and true and shows no signs of being tugged, then one must deduce it was cosmetic - a bumper or a panel was mushed. Those aren't the worst things in the world. Anything bigger would probably be on the CarFax, I'd think, and that shows nothing at all.

I think I still want to see this one for myself. It'll be certainly a bigger hit to my bank account to go there and see if the PPI craps out and I'm flying back home rather than just bailing now and eating the ticket. But to be there while it's in the air, and see with my own eyes, I can have my concerns allayed or reinforced realtime.

That's my take at t-minus 8 hours. It can still be influenced...
 
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Uber,

I'd say one thing - you can't trust Carfax to have anything if it was fixed without an insurance claim - that's the only way they know. The only thing you can trust carfax for is to tell you the ownership registration history. That's about it or salvage title. So don't put a lot of faith in them. Make sure the PPI guy knows NSXs!!! That's the main thing. If the PPI turns up any suspicions on the frame - get it to a good body shop! It's not easy to see frame damage if it's been repaired really well but a good body shop man can spot it!

I take it this 01 has higher miles - give me the specs again. That also has a lot to do with the price. If you can get this car down between 30 and 35 - that's kind of makes it hard not to give a real hard look.

Anyway - at this point it looks like your locked in to go out there - I've done that before and walked away after flying down and having a PPI done - the guy was a "stonecurber" - that's a crook in other words. When I did that not only did I have the ppi going but I had a good car man on the phone with me too. It had been painted - badly - it was a turkey - I walked. I learned one thing out of that - I didn't have the money to be flying all over the place to check out cars. So I was really careful the next time and if that's all you get out of this then that's not all bad.

You'll be ok. If anything looks sloppy and poorly done - just walk.
 
Uber and Tim seem like kindred spirits......judged only by typing skills:wink:
 

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