Acura RL needs Help

[Timpo]

Acura is not getting high-class brand image compared to other Japanese luxury brands like Infiniti and Lexus.

I am guessing mainly because they're selling cheap 4 cyl cars like...CSX, RSX and TSX.
They really need to get rid of those cars. They used sell cars like 1.6EL...I mean 1.6L 4cyl econo box for a luxury brand? are you kidding me? Lexus and Infiniti never sold a car with 1.6L 4cyl...are we talking about Kia and Hyundai or what?

Look at Lexus, if I'm not wrong, the cheapest car you can get is the ES330. (soon to be ES350)
The cheapest car you can get from Infiniti is the G35.

What Acura need to do is...

-Get rid of all 4cyl econo cars like CSX, RSX and TSX. (because they're just a Civic, Integra and Accord.) The cheapest car you can buy from Acura should be something like TL.
-Get the S2000 into Acura brand, I know S2000 is a 4cyl, but the S2000 deserves to have an Acura brand name since a lot of people are comparing the S2000 with Audi TT, Porsche Boxster, BMW Z4, 350Z, etc...
-Build a V8 SUV that competes with Escalade, Navigator, QX56 and LX470.
-Build a V8 luxury sedan that would compete with LS460, Q45, S-Class and 7 Series.
-Build a V10 NSX to compete with F430 or Gallardo.

 

[twinrabbit]

GUYS,
I currently work in pre-owned Car wholesalers, go in and out the cars auction 3 times a week. The auction I go are dealers and wholesalers only. If you looking for Lexus, any model, they are there. I am impressed, even brand new one, sometimes u meet them there.

The last 1 month, its about 20,000 cars I saw on the auctions, I only see total of 4 RL, 1 from the newest model and 2 from 2002 model and 1 from the 1998 model. I purchased one of them because I know it is a hard item to get.

TL has some recalls and some defectives on transmission, thats why as dealer, we wont try to purchase a pre-owned TL.

Lexus v8 engine LS 430, is kinda drinking gas like water, compare to RL, this RL is spending less gas, it is kinda less in power, but it does comfortable and the price is worthed for the gas and the less problem.

NSX hehehee, after seeing about 20,000 cars, still zero in the auction,
I see several S2000, Many 350Z, so as I told you, when the car are less in the auction that cars are hot in the market, so the dealers keep them, instead of dumping them on the auction.

I hope it helps, I am not on any site, just the Fact that happen in dealer and wholesalers market. I also have Rolex watches (my Main business before I enter Auto market), if you want to purchase any rolex watch, let me know k!

Dave

 

[White92]

Acura is not getting high-class brand image compared to other Japanese luxury brands like Infiniti and Lexus.

I am guessing mainly because they're selling cheap 4 cyl cars like...CSX, RSX and TSX.
They really need to get rid of those cars. They used sell cars like 1.6EL...I mean 1.6L 4cyl econo box for a luxury brand? are you kidding me? Lexus and Infiniti never sold a car with 1.6L 4cyl...are we talking about Kia and Hyundai or what?

Look at Lexus, if I'm not wrong, the cheapest car you can get is the ES330. (soon to be ES350)
The cheapest car you can get from Infiniti is the G35.

What Acura need to do is...

-Get rid of all 4cyl econo cars like CSX, RSX and TSX. (because they're just a Civic, Integra and Accord.) The cheapest car you can buy from Acura should be something like TL.
-Get the S2000 into Acura brand, I know S2000 is a 4cyl, but the S2000 deserves to have an Acura brand name since a lot of people are comparing the S2000 with Audi TT, Porsche Boxster, BMW Z4, 350Z, etc...
-Build a V8 SUV that competes with Escalade, Navigator, QX56 and LX470.
-Build a V8 luxury sedan that would compete with LS460, Q45, S-Class and 7 Series.
-Build a V10 NSX to compete with F430 or Gallardo.

I can see where you are coming from, but I don't think Acura has any plans to get rid of the TSX anytime soon. That car is a huge seller for them. The end of the RSX might already be in the works if the rumors are true. I don't think the S2000 will go to Acura either. It was first marketed as Honda's 50th anniversery car, not Acura's.

 

[Hothonda]

Question..of those who have participated in this thread, how many of you
own or have owned an '05 or '06 RL? Other than a test drive, how many have personal longer term experiences with the car?

We have many NSX "wanna be owners" on this forum who know more about the NSX than those of us who own or did own the car. I consider the source w/ their opinions and wonder why they waste the time unless it's only to see themselves in print.....

Also, how much credibility do you give the car magazines....for me I only look at the pictures ha ha!

 

[EIFFEL]

Question..of those who have participated in this thread, how many of you
own or have owned an '05 or '06 RL? Other than a test drive, how many have personal longer term experiences with the car?

We have many NSX "wanna be owners" on this forum who know more about the NSX than those of us who own or did own the car. I consider the source w/ their opinions and wonder why they waste the time unless it's only to see themselves in print.....

Also, how much credibility do you give the car magazines....for me I only look at the pictures ha ha!

My source of info is based on feedback from current Acura dealer technician. I do not have intimate experience with the RL. We are just expressing our opinion base on our interpretation of the public info, reviews.

 

[DrVolkl]

I love the look of the RL. I think it's amazing. I hope to grab a used one in a couple years after the $$ goes down. Can't say I'd spend north of $50k for it right now.
I'd probably get an M45 instead.

 

[Hothonda]

My source of info is based on feedback from current Acura dealer technician. I do not have intimate experience with the RL. We are just expressing our opinion base on our interpretation of the public info, reviews.

Oh I see.....osmosis.

Just like the "NSX wanna be's"...they know the NSX because of "public info and Acura dealer technicians"....

 

[White92]

Oh I see.....osmosis.

Just like the "NSX wanna be's"...they know the NSX because of "public info and Acura dealer technicians"....

I'm having trouble understanding where you are coming from. I might be misunderstanding you. Are you saying that unless you own a certain car, you don't know anything about it and shouldn't make comments, positive or negative about it?

 

[Hothonda]

I'm having trouble understanding where you are coming from. I might be misunderstanding you. Are you saying that unless you own a certain car, you don't know anything about it and shouldn't make comments, positive or negative about it?

Not at all....

It's just that many people who don't own the NSX (or RL) make statements about it's performance (or lack of) and other subjective comments like why the car doesn't sell and what Honda needs to do blah, blah, blah.... hey, everyone has a right to their own opinion.

But......

When I hear something about the NSX that comes from a non/never owner about this or that, well, I take it for what it's worth...generally nothing!

 

[TC]

Question..of those who have participated in this thread, how many of you
own or have owned an '05 or '06 RL? Other than a test drive, how many have personal longer term experiences with the car?

My wife bought an 05 RL in 1/05 (13 months ago) and we've run up 15k miles since. Here's one owner's viewpoint. (Note that the 06 GS and 06 M were not on the market at the time).

The car is a bit small in the back seat and truck - which was appealing to my wife as she liked the feel of driving a more compact car rather than a bigger boat. The driving position, dash and forward visibility are great - ergonomics are excellent. It just feels good sitting in the drivers' seat. If you like the cockpit feel, you'll probably really like the RL (in this regard).

The car is heavy - some 4300 lbs - so 290 HP doesn't go very far. Like most honda engines, it doesn't have a ton of torque and requires revs for power, so 0-30 feels slow - annoyingly slow. Once moving, the car is quick and zips down the highway.

The audio system is killer - if you haven't heard true 6-channel audio in a car go to your Acura dealer (or Cadillac, Infiniti or Lexus dealer) just to hear it. The navigation system is also top notch - works well and is simple to use.

Gas mileage is bad - my wife averages 15.9 mpg according to the trip computer. Granted it is a mix of city and highway driving but this is still pretty bad. Most car mags have also complained about the mileage. My 320 HP V8, AWD SUV gets slightly better mileage than my wife's RL.

Reliability has also been poor. The car has had 6 recall programs - all for electronics. The tranny has had 2 reprogramming recalls; the engine has had one. The satellite unit had to be replaced. Our car has had 4 unscheduled trips for repair - broken sat unit (before the recall so ours was replaced twice), broken side view mirror switch pad, broken integrated electronic control box (twice), broken Onstar system. For a total of 13 days in the shop.

The biggest disappointment has been the car's inability to hold its value. My wife paid $52k for hers (had the optional backup sensors, wood trim steering wheel and a few other dealer options). Less than six months after she bought her car, dealers were selling 05's for $5k off the sticker. In september/october, some dealers where selling them for $10k off sticker. As a result, the trade-in value of our 05 RL is about $36k - a loss of $16k in a bit over 12 months. Check eBay - 05 RL's are selling for $35-38k. 04's are selling for $20-25k.

My wife loves her car - makes her comfortable and happy when she's driving it so that's what fundamentally matters. But from an objective standpoint the RL isn't the "revolutionary, breakthough, benchmark" Honda has claimed - and other cars (perhaps while they cost more hold their value better and therefore represent equivalent or better value) are simply better. Which is why the cars like the GS, M, A6, 5 Series, E Class and STS all outsell the RL by 2x, 3x, and more. The RL is the slowest selling car of this pack.

To me it will be very interesting and telling to see what Honda does about it - now that they've acknowledged a problem. Will they sit on the current car for years (as they did with the previous generation RL and our beloved NSX) or will they respond yy quickly improving the product.

 

[zahntech]

I drive and work on all sorts of cars...I worked for Acura when the RL was introduced and everybody at the dealer I worked for was very dissapointed that the car did not compete with the full luxury cars on the market and still doesn't....

I understand that Hothonda owns one and he likes it..that's great that he is happy with his purchase...My v8 lexus gets better milage than the RL gets, from what I have found from RL owners..

the car is overpriced for its current make up..the sales figures show it....The RL is a nice car but it does not really fit the market.

 

[EIFFEL]

Not at all....

It's just that many people who don't own the NSX (or RL) make statements about it's performance (or lack of) and other subjective comments like why the car doesn't sell and what Honda needs to do blah, blah, blah.... hey, everyone has a right to their own opinion.

But......

When I hear something about the NSX that comes from a non/never owner about this or that, well, I take it for what it's worth...generally nothing!

The reasons RL or NSX don't sell are public knowledge( OVERPRICE ) They are great cars but general public don't feel like the product is worth the asking price. The RL competes in a very tough environment just like the NSX. Honda just don't bring enough to the table. These are OBJECTIVE facts about the cars. I have no control how the public respond to RL or the NSX. My SUBJECTIVE feel is RL and NSX are great used vehicle buys, NSX are great lease value. How you feel about other's peoples comments is your business. I could care less. We are all just expressing our attitude toward our cars.

 

[White92]

For those who own the RL or considered getting it, but didn't, and bought a competitor instead, what would you change, add or delete to make it comperable to others in it's class? I know more leg room, better gas mileage, more power. Anything else? What's your wish list that would make you buy this car over any others in it's class?

 

[EIFFEL]

For those who own the RL or considered getting it, but didn't, and bought a competitor instead, what would you change, add or delete to make it comperable to others in it's class? I know more leg room, better gas mileage, more power. Anything else? What's your wish list that would make you buy this car over any others in it's class?

The RL lacks prestige, Acura dealers needs to be upgraded to compete with Lexus, MB. I looks at a 05 RL for $43k last nov. V6 just does not cut it anymore. (Same with NSX) The performance may be adequete with V6, but it is no better than Accord V6. RL needs to look like a expensive car and not a overpriced and tricked-out accord. The new LS460 and S550 should give Honda a good idea how a flagship should look like(The car must have presence)

 

[Hothonda]

Good write up!

My wife bought an 05 RL in 1/05 (13 months ago) and we've run up 15k miles since. Here's one owner's viewpoint. (Note that the 06 GS and 06 M were not on the market at the time).

The car is a bit small in the back seat and truck - which was appealing to my wife as she liked the feel of driving a more compact car rather than a bigger boat. The driving position, dash and forward visibility are great - ergonomics are excellent. It just feels good sitting in the drivers' seat. If you like the cockpit feel, you'll probably really like the RL (in this regard).

Ditto!

The car is heavy - some 4300 lbs - so 290 HP doesn't go very far. Like most honda engines, it doesn't have a ton of torque and requires revs for power, so 0-30 feels slow - annoyingly slow. Once moving, the car is quick and zips down the highway.

It could be quicker althoughy wife thinks it just fine plus the ASPEC supension & 18's w/the Pirelli P-Zero Neros make for sharp handling. Does
it need a V8?- not for me but I have my NSX for those times. I have not
experienced the SH-AWD in inclement weather yet.

The audio system is killer - if you haven't heard true 6-channel audio in a car go to your Acura dealer (or Cadillac, Infiniti or Lexus dealer) just to hear it. The navigation system is also top notch - works well and is simple to use.

Ditto!

Gas mileage is bad - my wife averages 15.9 mpg according to the trip computer. Granted it is a mix of city and highway driving but this is still pretty bad. Most car mags have also complained about the mileage. My 320 HP V8, AWD SUV gets slightly better mileage than my wife's RL.

I am averaging right around 18 MPG+ - in mostly rural driving...24 on the road....70-85 mph...

Reliability has also been poor. The car has had 6 recall programs - all for electronics. The tranny has had 2 reprogramming recalls; the engine has had one. The satellite unit had to be replaced. Our car has had 4 unscheduled trips for repair - broken sat unit (before the recall so ours was replaced twice), broken side view mirror switch pad, broken integrated electronic control box (twice), broken Onstar system. For a total of 13 days in the shop.

My car was purchased in July '05 and my dealer had performed all updates
w/the exception of a problem with the ONSTAR/XM interface for Acura Link
prior to delivery. After that, to fix a "clunking" in the front brakes, Acura installed new shims for the front brake calipers...that's been it for repairs.

The biggest disappointment has been the car's inability to hold its value. My wife paid $52k for hers (had the optional backup sensors, wood trim steering wheel and a few other dealer options). Less than six months after she bought her car, dealers were selling 05's for $5k off the sticker. In september/october, some dealers where selling them for $10k off sticker. As a result, the trade-in value of our 05 RL is about $36k - a loss of $16k in a bit over 12 months. Check eBay - 05 RL's are selling for $35-38k. 04's are selling for $20-25k.

I know resale has taken hits...I believe Acura had projected 20,000 units for
the first year and for '06 they are scaling back to around 12,000 units. Dealers had many in stock during '05...I don't think it's the same scenario in '06. I paid about $50K w/ full aspec (18" wheels,body and suspension) + wood wheel (all about $5K retail in extras). I probably would have taken a $10K hit on just about anything I would have purchased in my market.

My wife loves her car - makes her comfortable and happy when she's driving it so that's what fundamentally matters. But from an objective standpoint the RL isn't the "revolutionary, breakthough, benchmark" Honda has claimed - and other cars (perhaps while they cost more hold their value better and therefore represent equivalent or better value) are simply better. Which is why the cars like the GS, M, A6, 5 Series, E Class and STS all outsell the RL by 2x, 3x, and more. The RL is the slowest selling car of this pack.

To me it will be very interesting and telling to see what Honda does about it - now that they've acknowledged a problem. Will they sit on the current car for years (as they did with the previous generation RL and our beloved NSX) or will they respond yy quickly improving the product.

I wanted to spend $50K and there was nothing else out there that gave me what the RL did at that price point....I like the looks of the RL and I'm happy w/my purchase. I think Acura should build another vehicle that gets
into the mix with the new S Class for $15K less....completely loaded!

 

[nchopp]

Very similar to the problems Infiniti is having with the F50 Q45. When people think "luxury cruiser", they don't think Infiniti or Acura. They think BMW 750, Mercedes S class. The M45 is selling particularly well - a slimmed down Q45 with more options and technology and 10 grand less. No reason to get a Q when you can get a better car for the same.

Oh, and as to the lack of a V-8 - yeah, it sucks. I'm currently deciding between a Y34 M45 or F50 Q45 - don't even consider the RL.

 

[zahntech]

Go with the M45 .....The Q is not even an option IMO...

 

[TC]

Acura is not getting high-class brand image compared to other Japanese luxury brands like Infiniti and Lexus.

I am guessing mainly because they're selling cheap 4 cyl cars like...CSX, RSX and TSX.
They really need to get rid of those cars. They used sell cars like 1.6EL...I mean 1.6L 4cyl econo box for a luxury brand? are you kidding me? Lexus and Infiniti never sold a car with 1.6L 4cyl...are we talking about Kia and Hyundai or what?

Look at Lexus, if I'm not wrong, the cheapest car you can get is the ES330. (soon to be ES350)
The cheapest car you can get from Infiniti is the G35.

You are 100% spot on. Hondas run from $15k to $35k. Acuras run from $20k to $40k (leaving off the RL for the sake of argument). Acura is a trim level jump over Honda, not an entire car line jump. Toyotas cost from $15k to $38k. Lexus from $35k to $75k. The high-end Toyota (Avalon) overlaps (and shares a platform) with the entry-level Lexus (ES).

What Acura need to do is...

-Get rid of all 4cyl econo cars like CSX, RSX and TSX. The cheapest car you can buy from Acura should be something like TL.
-Get the S2000 into Acura brand...
-Build a V8 SUV that competes with Escalade, Navigator, QX56 and LX470.
-Build a V8 luxury sedan that would compete with LS460, Q45, S-Class and 7 Series.
-Build a V10 NSX to compete with F430 or Gallardo.

Not that I disagree with you in anyway - but isn't this like starting all over? Carry one car forward (TL) and develop 3 or 4 totally new car platforms and engines? Or maybe Acura should just settle for being a near-luxury brand and give up the goal of trying to challenge Lexus et al. Just like VW should give up trying to be MB, Buick should give up trying to be Lexus, Mercedes should give up trying to match Rolls/Bently (with the Maybach), etc.

 

[TC]

For those who own the RL ...what would you change, add or delete to make it comperable to others in it's class? I know more leg room, better gas mileage, more power. Anything else? What's your wish list that would make you buy this car over any others in it's class?

1) Proper FR platform - even with SHAWD the car feels like a front driver. The benefit of SHAWD kicks in after the car starts to plow into a turn, at which point it already too late (from the driver's experience standpoint).

2) Long wheel base option. The short car today is appealing to some, but a longer wheel base would be more practical to many others.

3) Ability to select options - the RL is pretty much one size fits all. BMW, Lexus and MB give you tons of options - many too many - but more choice is usually better than no choice.

4) More model variants - RWD, AWD, station wagon, high performance versions (ala E Class, 5 series, etc.).

5) 6 speed auto tranny - or better. Seems like every car company has a 6-speed or better available. Even the Ford 500 has a 6-speed. And honda engines can benefit from shorter gears with a couple of good overdrive ratios for cruising.

6) More distinctive styling - RL is nice but looks like an Accord.

7) Better customer service.

 

[NetViper]

1) Proper FR platform - even with SHAWD the car feels like a front driver. The benefit of SHAWD kicks in after the car starts to plow into a turn, at which point it already too late (from the driver's experience standpoint).

2) Long wheel base option. The short car today is appealing to some, but a longer wheel base would be more practical to many others.

3) Ability to select options - the RL is pretty much one size fits all. BMW, Lexus and MB give you tons of options - many too many - but more choice is usually better than no choice.

4) More model variants - RWD, AWD, station wagon, high performance versions (ala E Class, 5 series, etc.).

5) 6 speed auto tranny - or better. Seems like every car company has a 6-speed or better available. Even the Ford 500 has a 6-speed. And honda engines can benefit from shorter gears with a couple of good overdrive ratios for cruising.

6) More distinctive styling - RL is nice but looks like an Accord.

7) Better customer service.

I only test drove the RL, but since I own a TL I think it is pretty easy to compare and contrast. The bottom line is that the RL does not offer enough new features and luxury to justify a 15K premium of the TL. Not a chance. The TL is much more fun to drive because the RL feels WEAK as already mentioned. 0-30 was just awful. The TL back seat room is almost the same, trunk space was close.

As for making it better, I will respond to what I think as listed above.

1) Just driving it around I didn't really notice that it felt like RWD or AWD, but I did notice when I hammered it that it did not have TQ steer of my TL. So I guess I think it is fine.

2) I don't know that they need a long wheel base version. I think the standard version should a lot longer than it is. LS430 length.

3) Personally I like that it comes only fully loaded. I hate getting optioned to death like MB, BMW and Porsche.

4) I don't think that would help sales.

5) AT least a 6-speed auto. Probably a 7 would be even better to make up for the lack of TQ.

6) Agreed. I like the styling, but I think it is just too plain. The TL again looks better to me.

7) 100% agree. My acura service is HORRID. If I paid 50K for a car, I better be treated really well by my local dealership. No loaner cars? Are you kidding me?

8) More Power. Hybrid 6 or V8. 350HP. Loads more TQ.

 

[White92]

I agree NetViper. If the RL interior were in the TL exterior, Acura would have a pretty damn fine car!:smile:

 

[Norm]

I have owned my 06 RL for a month now with 1,000 miles on the odometer (At least it was close to that the last time I figure out which button gives me that display:biggrin: )

My fuel mileage is averaging 21 mpg (another button I get to look for). I have added the wood steering wheel, back up camera (was that an option in 05? ) and lip spoiler.

When I decided to replace my 98 RL (100K very satisfactory miles) I considered the Accord, seriously considered the TL and fell absolutely in love with the RL. I respect all of the negative comments above but, seriously, what car out there can lay claim to the title of "perfect". No one car will satisfy everyone. For me, my NSX, my 05 MDX and the RL cover my needs as well as I ever dreamed of. As for re-sale. Ask me in ten years or 100K miles whichever comes first. Until then I'm not too worried.

As for service, I have used Acura dealers in Chicago, Mission Viejo, Tustin, Dallas, Tulsa and now Houston. I have never been disappointed with service. (well, there was that time they scuffed my NSX OEM bra, but they gave me a new one so I really can't say much about that)

Norm
94 NSX / Red

 

[nchopp]

That's one thing I'll give Infiniti - the service is phenomonal. My Q45 is 12 years old now, and I still get a loaner. Last one was a G35 coupe. HOT little car.

 

[Daedalus]

So...you're looking at picking up an NSX, and trying to decide between a Q and an M? Must be tough! :biggrin:

 

[nchopp]

So...you're looking at picking up an NSX, and trying to decide between a Q and an M? Must be tough! :biggrin:

Well, I'm the Director and Senior Editor at a TV station, I'm young (23), single, I will be living at the Fire Department as a Resident Volunteer, and I figure, hell, I might as well have my midlife crisis early, while I'm young, single, and can afford it! :biggrin: