abandoned 911 turbo cabrio - legal question

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nicholas421

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there's a mechanic shop near where i live where someone apparently dropped off a early 90's porsche 911 turbo cabriolet about a year ago and never came back. he brought it in with a blown transmission, said he'd be back with parts, but never returned. the phone number he left is disconnected and certified letters sent to his address have been returned.

the mechanic doesn't seem all that bright... so i'd like to somehow help him gain ownership of the car and then buy it from him for a rock bottom price. any ideas on how he can legally get his hands on the title?
 
Ya simple...as a mechanic, you are allowed to charge as much as you would like for storage of a car on your premises. My buddy, Dmitriy_2by2 was going to leave his NSX at a shop for a few days while he was making payment arrangements but his lawyer adviced him not to and said the owner can legally charge him as much as he pleases.

My advice: If you ever get in touch with the owner, charge him enough that it would not make sense to keep the car :) (365 days x 160 or so a day is close to 60,000)

Thats one way...not sure about literally taking hte title. Could be considered "abandoned" but then there would probably be salvage issues, no?
 
Brian2by2 said:
Ya simple...as a mechanic, you are allowed to charge as much as you would like for storage of a car on your premises. My buddy, Dmitriy_2by2 was going to leave his NSX at a shop for a few days while he was making payment arrangements but his lawyer adviced him not to and said the owner can legally charge him as much as he pleases.

My advice: If you ever get in touch with the owner, charge him enough that it would not make sense to keep the car :) (365 days x 160 or so a day is close to 60,000)

Thats one way...not sure about literally taking hte title. Could be considered "abandoned" but then there would probably be salvage issues, no?
Click to expand...

- Your friend contacted his lawyer before leaving his car at a shop?<br><br>

I am not a lawyer, but feel the need to disagree until one with such legal expertise speaks up.

I don't see how it is so 'simple' as you say.

Provided the owner of the car could not be located, I would think that the the process would go something like this...

1) The shop owner would file a mechanics lien on the car

2) The car would be advertised and sold at some public auction

3) The mechanic would keep the amount of the lien.


-I don't think a lien would be upheld at $160/day for storage. It's just not reasonable.
 
Hardly simple.

The mechanic can certainly charge a reasonable storage fee. Most service agreements note it in the fine print. What ever the local police impound yard charges would work. Plus of course labor charges for any work done.

The certified letters are the first step. In some states then you do a title search for lien holders and to confirm it is not stolen. Next, again depending on your state, a large bond has to be put up to hold the state harmless should an injured party show up later to sue the state for issuing a title for "their" car.

This was the process I went through several years ago near as I can recall.

Never did get the car.
 
Turbo Cab

Nik, There wasn't a 90's Turbo cabriolet.
The last turbo cab was in 89.
So what you may have is a conversion of some sort.
69 on up can be made to look like a new 911.
Be careful.
JAO
Len
 
ya, he sought advice from an attorney for another issue and the attorney said the mechanic can charge any amount of money for storage if it wasn't clearly stated somewhere in the contract/estimate. $160/day is not unreasonable for some shops. They can easily claim that the space that car occupied prevented other work from being done and in a shop that deals with higher end cars, preventing work can cost hte mechanic some serious $$$. Ok, maybe $160 is a bit much, but still, is a 90s 911 turbo worth more than 60k??

Are you 100% about the 90s cab turbo not being produced? coulda sworn my buddies dad had one...oh well
 
Are you 100% about the 90s cab turbo not being produced? coulda sworn my buddies dad had one...oh well


Absolutely sure. There were 2 special wishes cars made, but sold in Germany.
If your friend's dad had a widebody cab in the early 90's it would have been a 92 American Roadster or an ultra rare 94 speedster with the widebody option. Both cars are non turbo.
Len
 
i just went to take another look. you're right... it does seem to be a conversion body. (there is no air bag. the wheel wells aren't covered.) i looked for the vin number but couldn't find it. where is it located on a porsche??

here are a couple pictures...
the rear is high off the ground because the engine was removed.
 

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The VIN is in the right hand corner of the windshield post.
Those rocker panels are from a Kit.
Can you take a picture of the Front trunk and the engine compartment? Also interior pics would help big time.
Len
 
There are also VIN #'s stamped in the body in the trunk. Lift the trunk carpet to see it. There also should be a plate riveted to the left. Depending on year there are "confidential numbers". Look under the dash to the left of the ash tray.
 
Those are BBS RSII wheels. They run about $750.00 to $850.00 per wheel from us, and I have seen them sell for over $1000.00 each at other outfits. So fyi...that car has appox $3000.00- $4000.00 worth of BBS wheels on it! :p
 

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The VIN#'s in the truck will be different then those on the Windshield post. The ones on the winshield post are the ones to verify the actual identity of the car. There may be VIN plates in the door jams as well.

As far as value, If you could get a title for the car. The rolling shell would net you over 12k, depending on what condition the interior is in. Keep in mind that that could be (Big Could) an 92 American Roadster that someone was going to put a turbo on. That is where the trunk pics and engine pics would come in handy.

VIN#'s are easily changed. They are only held in by 2 rivets.
Also take a pic of the suspension, the rear should be real easy without the engine in there.
 
len3.8 said:
The VIN#'s in the truck will be different then those on the Windshield post. The ones on the winshield post are the ones to verify the actual identity of the car. There may be VIN plates in the door jams as well.

VIN#'s are easily changed. They are only held in by 2 rivets.
Also take a pic of the suspension, the rear should be real easy without the engine in there.
Click to expand...


Hmmm.

Had a bunch of 911s. Numbers SHOULD match all places I mention. Stickers are in the door jam.
The number that is stamped in the body under the trunk carpet IS the one to look for. It is VERY difficult to change it.

More here:

Regardless, good luck.
 
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AaronR said:
Those are BBS RSII wheels. They run about $750.00 to $850.00 per wheel from us, and I have seen them sell for over $1000.00 each at other outfits. So fyi...that car has appox $3000.00- $4000.00 worth of BBS wheels on it! :p
Click to expand...

Aaron, I have the RSII's on my NSX and due to parking too close to the curb I have some rash on the outer lip. Is it possible to replace the outer lip, or should I just take them to a wheel shop and have the scratches/rash polished out.

-Thanks
 
That is a pretty nice looking car..with some really high end BBS wheels on it. Not the kind of car to just leave behind or forget about. Has he checked to see if the owner died or not? I would suspect the owner is either dead or the car is stolen.
 
Dr.Lane said:
Aaron, I have the RSII's on my NSX and due to parking too close to the curb I have some rash on the outer lip. Is it possible to replace the outer lip, or should I just take them to a wheel shop and have the scratches/rash polished out.

-Thanks
Click to expand...

If the scratches are small enough to polish out, that would be your best bet. BBS does make replacement parts for about 75% of their multi-piece wheels but they tend to be ***VERY*** expensive. Most of the time, you will need to send them the wheel, they will fix it and send it back to you. In many cases by the time you put a lip on that wheel, you could have bought another whole wheel, even on a pricier wheel like an RSII (if they were still available that is). The other problem is that some of the mulit piece wheels are actually bonded together (either by weld, glues, etc) which makes them unable to be taken apart.

A place like wheel collision center in Bath PA is often where I send people to have problems like this fixed if they do not go back to BBS. You can reach them at 610-837-8792 for an estimate, as it may cost less than sending the wheel back to BBS possibly. If you want I can call BBS and see about your specific part. I would just need to know if it is a front or a rear. :)
Aaron
 
i just spoke to the owner of the shop... he is in the process of getting a title.

here's the vin#:
P0EA0915BS160820

from referencing snapper's helpful link... i've determined that it's a 1981 targa 911.

so apparently the guy chopped off the targa and put in a cabrio top, a turbo engine, and a 90's body. it looks like he put a lot of money into it... it even has brembo big brakes.

i need to find a porsche expert out here to figure out what this car is worth.
 
Nic. I have a friend as well as I have done such a conversion.
Unless you get the car for under 10k assumning that it all runs and you are able to get it going for another 3-4k. You will not get your $$$ out of it unless you part it out.
Private me and I will give you a list of costs to consider.
I have had 6-911s, 2- 928's, and a current 3.8RSR clone. (Money pit)
Be very careful about what parts are there and if they are in fact compatible. For example if he has a turbo engine from a 90's car, it has to be mated to a g50 trans. Big bucks to get it into that cars body. Then you still have to pay for the trans. Total for this if you don't have the correct trans would be 3-4k. Also that is a cut targa that will have a turbo motor. You'll need better torsion bars then stock 81's then the car is still going to flex like crazy unless you put a roll bar in it. Just getting started.... Get the car dirt cheap like a $1k-4k and you'll still spend some big dollars.

Parting it out could be a viable option if the pieces are in choice condition. The wheels would bring you about $1800 if they are all clean and straight. The fenders are worth about 700-1400, but you need to know if they are turbo fenders or flares. The flares are mot a problem, seeing that Porsche used them up until 86. Just some things to think about.
Len
 
JMO, but I would not go higher than 15k, 17k tops, running in good order. But that's me.

Check around you'll find no shortage of old 911's in all shapes and sizes. They are a dime a dozen.

As far as the body flex goes. It's reasonable to assume there would be some, but I never really noticed much between the 3 convertibles I have owned. One was a factory Cab, other two were Targa conversions one with roll bar. But I really like the line of the coupe with a wide body, had lots of 'em, GREAT FUN!

Sounds like you'll end up with one eventually. Good luck, and enjoy.
 
Dr.Lane said:
Aaron, I have the RSII's on my NSX and due to parking too close to the curb I have some rash on the outer lip. Is it possible to replace the outer lip, or should I just take them to a wheel shop and have the scratches/rash polished out.

-Thanks
Click to expand...


Dr. Lane,

I used to work in a race shop and we dealt a lot with BBS race wheels as well as BBS road wheels. BBS sell their 3-piece rims by parts. Mostly because race teams repair them all the time. But you will have to go through their motorsports department.

From my experience, most of 3-pc wheels are pretty easy to repair. They do use sealant, and it can get tricky to seal them properly without using it too much.

However, your wheel is not 3-pc, rather 2-pc. So the whole rim section (other than center section) need to be replaced. And if my memory serves me right, the rim section are made of special material. Possibly stainless steel, so it is really hard to polish the scratches out.
 

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