991 Turbo, Nissan GTR and NSX

[JD Cross]

let me get this straight? a handful of you keep throwing digs and snarky comments at me (going back a few weeks now when i was defending someone else several of you were being shitty with) because i'm commenting on a video on a forum to which you don't like what i have to say, and then you believe you deserve an apology when you get a snarky comment thrown back at you in return, the perpetrators who began this exchange to begin with?
first of all, check your self righteous selves. and secondly, you won't be getting anything from me. except the suggestion of perhaps becoming a comedian... :biggrin:

If you get comments you don't like, yes, you can blame others
Or look at your own actions and decide if you've alienated someone (inadvertently or on purpose).

It's something adults do all day, everyday.
All of us step out of line, make mistakes and do dumb.
Adults acknowledge that, apologize if they've offended someone, learn from it, and grow.

Others carry a chip on their shoulder and resort to calling someone a douche.
Is that the best you can do?

I don't want anything from you except an apology for inappropriate comments by you to me.
That takes strength and maturity, not flippant comments.
If you can't handle admitting you make mistakes I feel for you.
But that's your problem not mine

Time to stop calling people douches and go elsewhere.

 

[fastaussie]

rock on mate, and no.

you don't tell me what to do...



and p.s. just so you're aware. i shall be getting personal e-mails shortly telling me how amusing certain Primers find these exchanges.

and to please continue...

 

[Jinks]

I won't tiptoe around. I am only saying that my take on this car even if extremely little, has already been said.
Not because someone is forcing me to not say anything. Even though the car lost to the Porsche and the Nissan I would still rather have the nsx if the price was a bit lower but that is just repeating what I have already said. I think you should try and drive one, "all bullshit aside". Not just to have someone say I told you you'd like it if you did, but rather just to see what made it performance car of the year. You know me, I slammed the car too. I drove it and I actually like it. When your behind the wheel, you aren't thinking that it is slow or how it's ass got kicked by a gtr. Which, really the gtr isn't that much faster. There are a few things I did not like about it sure. I just think you should try to drive one.:wink:

 

[fastaussie]

already driven it mate... :wink:

 

[Jinks]

Hmmmm, okay. Never mind then.

 

[JD Cross]

and p.s. just so you're aware. i shall be getting personal e-mails shortly telling me how amusing certain Primers find these exchanges.

If that isn't the most childish comment yet.

If you need emails from people who haven't got the courage to make a comment publicly to make you feel better......
Oh my, this is worse than I thought.

Well good luck to you in the real world, laddie.
It can be a tough place to grow up in.

 

[Jinks]

already driven it mate... :wink:

Trying to keep an open mind to discussion here. Was there anything you did like about driving the gen 2? I remembered you saying you liked the looks and mirrors. I'd like to hear more detailed information as to what you think could be improved on other than acceleration. We know it is not the fastest horse in the stable and I also hope some tuning or later models can find a solution.

 

[fastaussie]

Well good luck to you in the real world, laddie.
It can be a tough place to grow up in.

 

[chrisn]

[MENTION=25269]fastaussie[/MENTION]: I don't get you. The thread is (supposedly) about the 911 Turbo versus GT-R versus NSX. None of those cars are objectively "bad" and most people would be very very happy to own any of them. I've been lucky enough to own all of them and have no regrets. I'd love to own a 570S, mostly because I have never owned one. Variety is more important to most people than optimizing only on lap times. As I've said before, this is the Golden Age of sports cars and we should all be thankful that the market has so many cool cars to choose from.

To argue that the NSX is not "fast enough" or to suggest that it is not a car that right-minded enthusiasts should want to own is confusing to me. I would understand if you shared you subjective opinions of the NSX, especially after you had a chance to drive one. I would also understand and not argue if you said "I just don't like it." No accounting for taste. But to suggest that it is "wrong" or "dumb" (or worse) to like/buy the NSX 2.0 strikes me as outside the realm of good etiquette. Trying to brush this off as simply humor or candor misses the point.

I, for one, would love for you to continue to share your opinions and knowledge, but without the vitriol.

 

[fastaussie]

The thread is (supposedly) about the 911 Turbo versus GT-R versus NSX. None of those cars are objectively "bad" and most people would be very very happy to own any of them. I've been lucky enough to own all of them and have no regrets. I'd love to own a 570S, mostly because I have never owned one. Variety is more important to most people than optimizing only on lap times. As I've said before, this is the Golden Age of sports cars and we should all be thankful that the market has so many cool cars to choose from.

i can dig that 100% mate... :smile:

to suggest that it is "wrong" or "dumb" (or worse) to like/buy the NSX 2.0 strikes me as outside the realm of good etiquette. Trying to brush this off as simply humor or candor misses the point.

where on earth did you get that from? i have never pretended to say anything remotely close to that...

I, for one, would love for you to continue to share your opinions and knowledge, but without the vitriol.

thanks mate, nice of you to say. and as we've discussed previously, i'm happy to share thoughts on the NSX or any other car. or all of them collectively...

 

[rk-d]

I joined this forum for this thread -- I've been interested by this comparison and a little shocked by the results. I've actually thought alot about it...

I have a 991.2 Turbo on order, but if I didn't need a backseat, I would have very strongly considered the NSX. It's not perfect, but it does look like a supercar.

There is something intriguing about owning bleeding edge technology - like a baby 918. I had high hopes for the NSX based on that. I think everyone did.

I'm a fan of Japanese sports cars - I used to own an s2000 and have loved the NSX ever since I first sat in one in 1990 -- I think alot of people in my generation venerate the NSX and expect alot out of its successor. This might be unfair, in retrospect. The NSX was not the most powerful car of its day either.

Hybrid supercars are not easy. I think Honda has simply done the best it can do right now. It will take some time for them to nail down the formula. One or two gens from now, this thing will be a killer and the price range will be a bargain. But for now, it's not quite there.

That said, there is an argument for the NSX, still. For most practical purposes it will be as fast as any of the others and it has an exotic look and high tech appeal.

Buying a $150-200k sports car is an emotional thing - objective performance, etc. will only count for so much.

 

[Jinks]

I joined this forum for this thread -- I've been interested by this comparison and a little shocked by the results. I've actually thought alot about it...

I have a 991.2 Turbo on order, but if I didn't need a backseat, I would have very strongly considered the NSX. It's not perfect, but it does look like a supercar.

There is something intriguing about owning bleeding edge technology - like a baby 918. I had high hopes for the NSX based on that. I think everyone did.

I'm a fan of Japanese sports cars - I used to own an s2000 and have loved the NSX ever since I first sat in one in 1990 -- I think alot of people in my generation venerate the NSX and expect alot out of its successor. This might be unfair, in retrospect. The NSX was not the most powerful car of its day either.

Hybrid supercars are not easy. I think Honda has simply done the best it can do right now. It will take some time for them to nail down the formula. One or two gens from now, this thing will be a killer and the price range will be a bargain. But for now, it's not quite there.

That said, there is an argument for the NSX, still. For most practical purposes it will be as fast as any of the others and it has an exotic look and high tech appeal.

Buying a $150-200k sports car is an emotional thing - objective performance, etc. will only count for so much.

Welcome to the madness. :biggrin:

 

[chrisn]

[MENTION=33519]rk-d[/MENTION]: Is the 991.2 Turbo your first car in this class? If so, I suggest you stick with that. Everyone needs a Turbo on the bucket list. If you've been lucky enough to own other high-end sports cars and expect to buy more over time, I think you should strongly consider the NSX. This is the only opportunity to be an early adopter of what I think will be a historically important car. Plus, it looks sooooooo much more exotic than the 991. Also, the 991 platform/body is what? Six years old? So during you ownership, there will be an "all-new" 911, and you won't have it. Luckily, 99.9% of the public won't know that you have the "old one." Not huge deal, but something to consider/visualize.

Just some thoughts. You really can't go wrong!

 

[N Spec]

The peak number is at 2000 rpm with combined numbers from all 3 motors, but I still personally think it would be wiser/more effective to launch the NSX at or near the peak torque numbers of the ICE alone considering it is the bulk, say ~80% of the power deliver and let the front emotors aid in traction control with the launch.

 

[rk-d]

@rk-d: Is the 991.2 Turbo your first car in this class? If so, I suggest you stick with that. Everyone needs a Turbo on the bucket list. If you've been lucky enough to own other high-end sports cars and expect to buy more over time, I think you should strongly consider the NSX. This is the only opportunity to be an early adopter of what I think will be a historically important car. Plus, it looks sooooooo much more exotic than the 991. Also, the 991 platform/body is what? Six years old? So during you ownership, there will be an "all-new" 911, and you won't have it. Luckily, 99.9% of the public won't know that you have the "old one." Not huge deal, but something to consider/visualize.

Just some thoughts. You really can't go wrong!

Kinda, sorta. Had a GT4 before this one. Loved the thing, but it didn't work with my lifestyle and I didn't drive it as much as I'd like.

I'm definitely sticking with the Turbo. It's a bucket list thing and having a backseat is an absolute necessity. I like all the 911 Turbo body styles, even the 996. They tend to age well and I like the sleeper aspect. So I'm not too worried about that part. I like buying refresh, ".2" iterations in whatever car I get -- usually all the kinks are worked out.

If the NSX had a backseat, this would be a much more challenging problem. Never considered the GTR, b/c I don't like they way they look.

I'm expecting the 992 Turbo to be a hybrid. There will be problems and I'd just as soon avoid that. By the time it's ready for prime-time, I'll be ready to move on from the .2

That's what I'm thinking anyway. If Honda really commits to the NSX platform, it's going to be a fun battle to watch in the future -- we all know their engineering chops are world class.

 

[N Spec]

I don't see anything sleeper about a Porsche especially if there is a turbo badge on it Everyone knows they are fast and on top of their game when it comes to numbers.

Maybe what you mean to say is conservative or mild-mannered looks/styling?

 

[rk-d]

I don't see anything sleeper about a Porsche especially if there is a turbo badge on it Everyone knows they are fast and on top of their game when it comes to numbers.

Maybe what you mean to say is conservative or mild-mannered looks/styling?

Haha - yeah. Low key - especially compared to an NSX which I'm assuming is a real attention grabber.

Not sure there is a lot of real cross-shopping between these two cars. They are so different in their appeal, though performance is obviously in the same class.

R8 is a different story - very similar looking cars and exotic appeal in my mind (though I think the NSX looks better, personally).

 

[chrisn]

I like all the 911 Turbo body styles, even the 996.

Umm. Ok. You lost all credibility with that. J/K.

I misread you rear-seat requirement. Enjoy your Turbo! It will be MUCH more livable as a DD than the GT4. And, at least in bigger cities, more of a sleeper too. My Turbo (997) never got many looks in SF Bay Area.

 

[tucsonsx]

The first generation NSX wasn't a " numbers " car and neither is the second generation car. I really doubt that any of the buyers of the second generation car lose any sleep if brand X has a better number in any one category or categories. In my experience that sort of comparison really doesn't have much do with the buying decisions of the people who have the wherewithal to buy this type of car.

 

[2slow2speed]

The peak number is at 2000 rpm with combined numbers from all 3 motors, but I still personally think it would be wiser/more effective to launch the NSX at or near the peak torque numbers of the ICE alone considering it is the bulk, say ~80% of the power deliver and let the front emotors aid in traction control with the launch.

Keep in mind the IMA, the amount of actual torque that the IMA might be able to provide at 4000RPM might be less than the amount of torque that the same IMA can provide at 2000RPM.

It could always be that the amount of actual torque increase of the ICE at 4000RPM also results in a loss of torque from the IMA. That is the entire concept of torque fill.

You also need to take into account the rotational mass of the IMA as it pertains to the transmission/clutch packs, etc. this goes back to the reliability factor that many have referred to.

You don't want the NSX to start granading transmissions like the original version of LC on the R35 GT-R.

 

[N Spec]

Keep in mind the IMA, the amount of actual torque that the IMA might be able to provide at 4000RPM might be less than the amount of torque that the same IMA can provide at 2000RPM.

It could always be that the amount of actual torque increase of the ICE at 4000RPM also results in a loss of torque from the IMA. That is the entire concept of torque fill.

You also need to take into account the rotational mass of the IMA as it pertains to the transmission/clutch packs, etc. this goes back to the reliability factor that many have referred to.

You don't want the NSX to start granading transmissions like the original version of LC on the R35 GT-R.

I don't question that the engineers probably tested various RPM launches and figured 2000 was optimal for the moment of release considering the deadlines they had to meet also since they came up with a new powertrain midway through the development process. I have a feeling though there is much room for improvement in this category for the future...

 

[Adamantium]

Just want to point out that mechanically, the NSX is effectively 2wd, so when it comes to launching its "drivetrain" is at far less risk from torque shunting than the 911 or GT-R.

The rear wheels are connected to the engine only, too much torque and they spin at which point strain on gearbox/clutch is insignificant.

When there's a main drive shaft and a torque transfer to the front wheels, there's a lot more chance for mechanical failure. Spinning wheels is the safety net for the drivetrain when launching, yet it's very unlikely to spin all four wheels on the spot. That means maybe spinning the rear wheels and slipping a central clutch, or overheating a central diff, or breaking a component from excessive torque.

 

[fastaussie]

excellent points in all, but the simple point of the matter is that the NSX is as fast as possible right now. if there were ways (from the factory) for it to be faster, it would have been.

will it be faster in the future, most likely. will the others, yep. that's all they keep doing, getting faster all the time. they are all more than fast enough.

as for the Porsche 911 Turbo. it is simply a rocketship. if you don't drive one, don't get into a race against one... :biggrin:

 

[MasterNSXTech]

The first generation NSX wasn't a " numbers " car and neither is the second generation car. I really doubt that any of the buyers of the second generation car lose any sleep if brand X has a better number in any one category or categories. In my experience that sort of comparison really doesn't have much do with the buying decisions of the people who have the wherewithal to buy this type of car.

This is spot on. There absolute were faster cars available for around the same money back when the 1991 NSX came out. Corvette ZR-1, Dodge Viper, Porsche 911 Turbo are some that come to mind. Fast forward a quarter century later, and here we have a new NSX. Yet once again, the Corvette, Viper, and 911 all have an offering that's faster (with the two American cars coming in for far less money) along with a few other competitors too. Nothing has changed.

So really. If your car buying habits is just one big upmanship dickmeasuring contest of who's got the car with the best magazine test numbers? Then just go out and get an ACR and be done with it. And hope you've got the skills to keep that thing on the road should come up on a choppy off camber decreasing radius turn.

 

[Bram]

This is spot on.......
So really. If your car buying habits is just one big upmanship dickmeasuring contest of who's got the car with the best magazine test numbers?

I like this Quote....one for the books!

Bram