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991 Turbo, Nissan GTR and NSX
- Thread starter ReneNSX
- Start date
Brake issue was interesting. Hasn't this cropped up before on another drive video??
fastaussie
Suspended
you're correct, it has...
good test, fair and unbiased. simple hard numbers. but not a good test for the NSX, beaten in every category, every time.
the 911 Turbo (not S model) is a sick car. it'll make you giddy launching from a stop, there's nothing like it, except the Millennium Falcon!
wow, reading some of the comments of the Rennlist guys about the NSX. brutal...
Funny how you've come out of the woodwork for a negative review?
As for Rennlist........
fastaussie
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funny how far up Honda's arse you guys have your heads. :biggrin:
i've seen them all mate, commented on them all. both good and bad. i don't write the reviews or start the threads...
i've seen them all mate, commented on them all. both good and bad. i don't write the reviews or start the threads...
Yeah those guys are pretty brutal on it. The new nsx is very fast and I hope they extract more power out of the motors. I really think that is the key to making it the true baby 918. It only needs a bit more beef in the lower rpm range. I especially like the drivers position and view while driving the nsx. It is very similar to the gen 1 where all you see is just a bit of the fenders. I'm looking foreward to slight variations of the nsx. I still think the nsx looks the best of all three and the interior all makes sense when driving it. The touchscreen entertainment system is a little ehhh, but you don't really need that crap when driving this car, as it seems to create it's own symphony of nice engine noises and you just have to hold on to the wheel.
I think the previous issue was brake overheating, which I have seen only once on track on a hot day when pads getting thin.
I think the message here was due to hitting the wear sensor, which is weird since you'd think Acura would have set them up with fresh pads for the testing. Who knows.
fastaussie
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i can agree that the NSX definitely looks better than either. i've always thought the GTR was absolutely hideous looking, but it definitely does have its own undeniable presence. when you see one, you're aware it's got some serious cred. the Porsche isn't bad looking, or fantastic looking, but it is unequivocally a very bad arse machine also...
I think the nsx is a supercar. That little yellow froggie looking 911 I would almost call a hypercar. They are just so freaking fast! Porsche knows what they are doing. The gtr and the Porsche have upgrades to improve it easier than I would imagine the nsx to have. But, on the other hand there could be some super Japanese tuner hacking the software as we speak to get more power from boost and more juice to the electric motors. I could only hope that is the case.
I think one of the dilemmas Honda faces is this is version 1 of the new NSX and of course it is being compared to the evolved versions of it's competitors.
Once a car like a 911/GTR/R8 etc. had been produced for a long time manufacturers can offer many variations on a theme (options, special editions) plus with constant improvements (power handling and so on) with relative ease.
I think this is very difficult to do right out of the box on a brand new car like the NSX with a brand new factory and new employees etc.
There's a need to keep things simple and doable during the start-up and early production period.
So not surprising the NSX is not a the top of the pile but rather in the mix, as Chris says, at this stage.
In the bigger picture perhaps one area to watch is the direction Honda has taken with their vision of future high performance.
Is the hybrid drive the way to go?
If it is, Honda should be able to offer constant improvement plus a plethora of options more easily than competitors feeling their way with a new technology.
From the marketplace/comparos of course, the NSX is viewed with a highly critical eye against the competition of the day.
And it has been found lagging at the upper limits in some areas.
However from my view, the new NSX, given all the hurdles to overcome building a totally new hybrid car from a blank sheet of paper, is remarkably good.
I believe it represents the future of high performance, and perhaps hasn't reached it on this day, but I expect it will down the road a few miles
I will agree.... After driving a new nsx, I left wanting more and that is saying it in a good way. It was so easy to drive! I am not a track rat, a professional driver, or a millionare who has a barrage of supercars. I honestly think if Honda stays in the fight, we could see an even greater car.
Although, the price is a bit much for me as I have shared in my opinions previously, but I'd love
to see what is in store for the future models. I do not think the car is going anywhere anytime soon at this point. I will just sit and wait for good improvements to come I hope.Honda PLEASE listen for once....
I am just very glad I was able to drive it and experience the car from my own point of view.
It is still pricey, but there is power left on the table in my opinion, I have no doubt of that....
It is hard listening to youtube posts rather than experiencing it and drawing your own conclusion as I have found. All I can say is that all cars in this segment are competitive and that I love my nsx and I want the offspring to succeed.
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Jinks, I learned something in the acceleration test on the DriveTribe video.
The NSX launches at 2000 rpm, the GTR at 4000 and the 911 at 6000.
I've no idea who much power goes to the wheels in each of the cars at those rpm's.
As old drag racer we usually believed higher rpm at launch made for more power and a lower ET, provided you had traction.
The NSX would seem to have more power and less weight than the GTR but yet is slower accelerating
I wonder how each car would stack up if they all were moving with their engines at say 4000 rpm in first gear and then floored it.
That would tend to equalize the different launch modes where the NSX appears to be at a disadvantage.
Wondering if the Honda engineers have kept a conservative launch mode to preserve the driveline (thinking of the GTR launch transmission problems from years back)?
Thoughts?
The NSX launches at 2000 rpm, the GTR at 4000 and the 911 at 6000.
I've no idea who much power goes to the wheels in each of the cars at those rpm's.
As old drag racer we usually believed higher rpm at launch made for more power and a lower ET, provided you had traction.
The NSX would seem to have more power and less weight than the GTR but yet is slower accelerating
I wonder how each car would stack up if they all were moving with their engines at say 4000 rpm in first gear and then floored it.
That would tend to equalize the different launch modes where the NSX appears to be at a disadvantage.
Wondering if the Honda engineers have kept a conservative launch mode to preserve the driveline (thinking of the GTR launch transmission problems from years back)?
Thoughts?
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As I mentioned and guys I am a layman here, more electric motor power in my opinion would rocket this car foreward. Maybe just a bit more ice boost too. Just my opinion, pick apart as needed... Just my opinion and I am no guru. I just really think Honda is sandbagging.
Of this I have absolutely no doubt!
I continue to this that a software update alone could unleash a meaningful, although perhaps not super dramatic, extra dose of power from both the ICE and EV systems. Everything about the car suggests an emphasis on consistency and conservatism versus maximum performance. I'm not sure of early adopters will benefit from software/firmware tweaks from Acura, but I hope we do. Otherwise, such tweaks could form the basis of a (near) future higher-performance variant (and perhaps third party tuners can hook up the early adopters).
^ Yup, the car is a newborn baby. Just a short time before an update thrusts it into hypercar stats in my opinion. Typical for Honda.... If there was one thing I noticed from driving your car Chris, is that the chassis is so damn rigid it could handle far greater power in my opinion.
I will stay tuned for tuning...
I will stay tuned for tuning...
fastaussie
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now why would Honda be sandbagging? why would they debut their brand new, highly anticipated model, to be slower than all the other cars in the segment? that's preposterous.
each car has it's own individual formula to accelerate from a standing start, with different vehicle weights, gearing, engine power curves, electronics, transmissions, wheel width sizes, wheel diameter sizes, weight transfer, etc., and each manufacturer has calculated the best group of parameters for the ideal and quickest launch.
the NSX has three electric motors, which offer more instant acceleration than the GTR or 911's non-electric power plants, so it likely has no need to launch at a higher rpm. as you noted, the downfall of more RPM is simply more wheel spin. wheels spinning at higher engine speed will have a more difficult time finding traction, thus wasting precious time. and i'm certain if the NSX could leave the line quicker at a higher RPM, Honda would have designed the launch control accordingly. they've spent 100's of hours working on precisely that, for the sole purpose of making it as quick as possible from 0-to-60 and though the 1/4 mile.
the torque peak for the NSX is at exactly 2000 RPM, and that is why it launches at exactly that RPM...
you can rest assured that Honda has the current iteration of the NSX leaving the line as hard as possible every time, without grenading the tranny or rear end. it appears that Nissan has simply done a better equation with the maths than Honda has...
each car has it's own individual formula to accelerate from a standing start, with different vehicle weights, gearing, engine power curves, electronics, transmissions, wheel width sizes, wheel diameter sizes, weight transfer, etc., and each manufacturer has calculated the best group of parameters for the ideal and quickest launch.
the NSX has three electric motors, which offer more instant acceleration than the GTR or 911's non-electric power plants, so it likely has no need to launch at a higher rpm. as you noted, the downfall of more RPM is simply more wheel spin. wheels spinning at higher engine speed will have a more difficult time finding traction, thus wasting precious time. and i'm certain if the NSX could leave the line quicker at a higher RPM, Honda would have designed the launch control accordingly. they've spent 100's of hours working on precisely that, for the sole purpose of making it as quick as possible from 0-to-60 and though the 1/4 mile.
the torque peak for the NSX is at exactly 2000 RPM, and that is why it launches at exactly that RPM...
you can rest assured that Honda has the current iteration of the NSX leaving the line as hard as possible every time, without grenading the tranny or rear end. it appears that Nissan has simply done a better equation with the maths than Honda has...
I'm not of that bent mate, but I've not read many positive threads where you've added to the discussion. And look back, I was one who thought the NSX would not sell well, until it met some important criteria. And I've been somewhat surprised by it's lack of outright pace. But I don't think it's the hopeless case you try to portray [either directly or by innuendo] in your scribbles.
Yes I'd love to own it, if I could afford it, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to it's attributes, unlike you.
Rather than critique Honda or we posters, can you explain why Honda would debut the NSX to be slower than the competition?
Lack of knowledge, don't understand the physics, reluctant to compete?
You've mentioned you have friends involved with testing the NSX so what's the story?
fastaussie
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that was exactly my point to you and the other posters. why would Honda intentionally debut the car to be slower than the others?!
brand image suicide? that makes no sense. the car is as fast as they could make it at the time it was released. that's the end of the story, Honda isn't holding anything back.
you asked, so i will answer you. but the ignorance on this forum is reaching staggering heights by some posters: one of my personal friends, who i have worked with for years, was one of the testers during the final acceleration testing phase of the NSX. he told me months before the car was released, that it wasn't going under 3 seconds 0-to-60. i told several Primers privately at the time. if they'd like to corroborate the story, that is up to them, they are aware of who they are.
Honda isn't intentionally holding anything back, that's simply the best they could do at the time...
brand image suicide? that makes no sense. the car is as fast as they could make it at the time it was released. that's the end of the story, Honda isn't holding anything back.
you asked, so i will answer you. but the ignorance on this forum is reaching staggering heights by some posters: one of my personal friends, who i have worked with for years, was one of the testers during the final acceleration testing phase of the NSX. he told me months before the car was released, that it wasn't going under 3 seconds 0-to-60. i told several Primers privately at the time. if they'd like to corroborate the story, that is up to them, they are aware of who they are.
Honda isn't intentionally holding anything back, that's simply the best they could do at the time...
FA, you have a serious lack of interpersonal skills.
To label the people who post their opinions respectfully in this forum as staggering ignorant says a great deal about who you are.
Yes I know you don't care etc.
Well I care.
You cheapen this forum and its members with words like these
And while we all have the freedom to express our opinions, unless you can add value without doing so by belittling others, I'd suggest you move on.
fastaussie
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actually i don't, but that is what you choose to take out of everything i replied to regarding your questions?
i was speaking of one or two, not the vast majority. i thought that was evident with "some posters"? i did not say "all you idiotic and ignorant bastards".
you're extremely presumptuous, and that is your prerogative, but you're choosing to ignore the information i just gave you, of which you asked for...
i was speaking of one or two, not the vast majority. i thought that was evident with "some posters"? i did not say "all you idiotic and ignorant bastards".
you're extremely presumptuous, and that is your prerogative, but you're choosing to ignore the information i just gave you, of which you asked for...
The better term to use is Honda is being "safe" or conservative with their performance to allow room for progression and reliability. 2000 launch RPM is very light on the drivetrain versus 6000 or 4000 rpm launches. I'd love to see a long term review of all of these cars. The hybrid factor would be the surprise element of course as battery life is questionable still...
There is nothing new in this review. The ICE from the NSX makes only 500 peak hp. The emotors shut off at ~120 mph. So of course the 0-100 and 0-150 times are going to be off when going against the higher peak hp cars with much higher launch RPMS. We all knew or should know of this aspect ever since the actual numbers were quoted. It's already been proven that the NSX is quicker off the line than the GTR when not performing launch control at all - this is better real world numbers.
The biggest factor as always is excess weight for the new NSX. They need to find way to shave 100 or even 200 kg off of the chassis. No easy feat I imagine, but every kg is going to count if they can manage it.
There is nothing new in this review. The ICE from the NSX makes only 500 peak hp. The emotors shut off at ~120 mph. So of course the 0-100 and 0-150 times are going to be off when going against the higher peak hp cars with much higher launch RPMS. We all knew or should know of this aspect ever since the actual numbers were quoted. It's already been proven that the NSX is quicker off the line than the GTR when not performing launch control at all - this is better real world numbers.
The biggest factor as always is excess weight for the new NSX. They need to find way to shave 100 or even 200 kg off of the chassis. No easy feat I imagine, but every kg is going to count if they can manage it.
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