400 hp club: where to set the bar ??

[nsx1164]

Might be a bit off-topic, but posting it here as it has impact on how HSC/new NSX might be received.

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Was reading an article on msn.com, which talks about the horsepower wars, and how so many production cars now come with high-hp alternatives, and this becoming a differentiator for many marques.

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4023179&src=LP luxury

The next gen NSX (or HSC, whatever they decide to call it) will need to come up with impressive #s.

The new Vette C6-Z06 has about 500 hp (base car has 400 hp). Even in the "affordable" ranks, the Pontiac GTO now has 400 hp, and a coming Mustang GT will approach 450+ (using a detuned Ford GT motor).

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The current members of the 400 Club include:

Aston Martin DB9 450-hp V12
Aston Martin V12 Vanquish S 520-hp V12
Audi A8 L W12 450-hp W12
Bentley Arnage T 450-hp V8
Bentley Continental GT 552-hp W12
BMW 760i/Li 438-hp V12
Cadillac CTS-V 400-hp V8
Chevrolet Corvette 400-hp V8
Chrysler 300C SRT8 425-hp V8
Dodge Ram 1500 SRT10 500-hp V10
Dodge Viper 500-hp V10
Ferrari F430 490-hp V8
Ferrari 575M Maranello 515-hp V12
Ferrari 612 Scaglietti 540-hp V12
Ford GT 550-hp V8
Lamborghini Gallardo 500-hp V10
Lamborghini Murcielago 580-hp V12
Maserati GranSport 400-hp V8
Maserati Quattroporte 400-hp V8
Maybach 57/62 543-hp V12
Mercedes-Benz CL55 AMG 493-hp V8
Mercedes-Benz CL600 493-hp V12
Mercedes-Benz CL65 AMG 604-hp V12
Mercedes-Benz CLS55 AMG 469-hp V8
Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG 469-hp V8
Mercedes-Benz G55 AMG 469-hp V8
Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG 493-hp V8
Mercedes-Benz S600 493-hp V12
Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG 604-hp V12
Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG 493-hp V8
Mercedes-Benz SL600 493-hp V12
Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG 604-hp V12
Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 617-hp V8
Pontiac GTO 400-hp V8
Porsche 911 Turbo S 444-hp H6
Porsche Carrera GT 605-hp V10
Porsche Cayenne Turbo 450-hp V8
Rolls-Royce Phantom 453-hp V12
Volkswagen Phaeton W12 420-hp W12

Interestingly enough, these are mostly European marques, with a few domestic makes. No Japanese cars in the above list.

 

[CJB]

I'm not sure if Honda/Acura can compete in the horsepower wars thats coming. Although there is much racing history in Honda, they have primarily marketed themselves as an environmentaly conscious company. Look at the RL, it has 300 hp and the V6 consumes gas like a V8 engine, I know my cousin has one.

As for the upcoming sportscar/replacement...Its got to be innovative something thats unique. Place current F1 technology in a roadcar like what they did a decade or so ago with the NSX. I love the NSX but it's getting old, its definitely time for something new. The number of HP some of these cars have like the Ford Shelby GT, the Z06 will force Honda to raise the HP, but also they have to introduce something that will make the car unique and faster than those cars. Cause in the end, a lot of people who can afford these cars will also look at the performance numbers.

I would like to hear the engine rev to 10,000 RPM, although 0-60 wouldn't be in supercar territory, it would definitely make a mark in automobile history. That kind of sound is just intoxicating to hear, especially when I went to Indy for F1 last year, shit that that sound is unique. Engines revving around 15,000 or so RPM's.

Then other japanese companies are probably going to release a new sportscar. Lexus with the LF-A, theres already a spy video of the car in the germany track, then Nissan/Infiniti with the new Skyline.

 

[TC]

I'm not sure if Honda/Acura can compete in the horsepower wars thats coming. Although there is much racing history in Honda, they have primarily marketed themselves as an environmentaly conscious company. Look at the RL, it has 300 hp and the V6 consumes gas like a V8 engine, I know my cousin has one.

Honda should be able to compete - the C6 Corvette EPA rating is 18/28, which is stellar for a 400 hp V8 - so why can't Honda build a comparable engine in terms of power and economy? I would think that could, but will they?

BTW, my wife's RL gets the same actual mileage as our SRX V8 AWD station wagon, but the SRX is definitely more powerful (HP and torque).

 

[Timpo]

Those companies don't even have enough technology to compete in F1 by making most powerful race engine. :biggrin:

HONDA RULEZ

 

[CJB]

So why dont Honda put that "most powerful race engine in the world" into their flagship sportscar. At least build an engine derive from current F1 technology like what BMW is doing with the M5 and M6's 5.0 V10 engine. And Lexus hinting they might do with the LF-A. They(Honda) can...but another question is will they do it?

These companies mentioned have made it into reality. Honda has nothing to show for their efforts in F1 for a long time. Toyota/Lexus has been in the F1 sport just for a couple of years and they want to market their involvement with the LF-A.

I love Honda's commitment to racing in the highest level of motorsports but they have to used it somehow as a marketing scheme...to some of their cars maybe in the Acura lineup. Besides a flagship sportscar/replacement for NSX/HSC, they can still have a market segment, a big coupe similar to what the CL does in MB lineup to fill in between the RL and TL.

 

[TC]

Those companies don't even have enough technology to compete in F1 by making most powerful race engine.

Huhh? What companies are you referring - BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, Ford (at least until last year)? They are all in F1 and offer products that relate closely to F1 technology - engines, F1-style transmissions, electronic differentials, composite brakes, advanced aerodynamics, etc. For the same (or less) cost as a new NSX you can buy a 500 HP, F1-derived V10 with a 7-speed F1 transmission from BMW (M5/M6). What Honda's got - a 290 HP V6 with potentially a 300 HP V6 coming in the next 3 years.

 

[Honda F1 Racing]

I think what Timpo meant by his statement is that all the other F1 engine manufacturers can't come close to the power output of the Honda F1 V10, which is acknowledged as the most powerful on the grid of all the teams.

 

[TC]

I think what Timpo meant by his statement is that all the other F1 engine manufacturers can't come close to the power output of the Honda F1 V10, which is acknowledged as the most powerful on the grid of all the teams.

Ahhh. Of course, the Honda F1 engine has had more failures & retirements this year than any other make. And a great F1 engine that doesn't trickle down in some fashion to our beloved NSX (as does BMW, Mercedes and Ferrari, and potentially Toyota in the near future) sorta makes me feel like - "so what?"

 

[NSXrebel]

Ahhh. Of course, the Honda F1 engine has had more failures & retirements this year than any other make. And a great F1 engine that doesn't trickle down in some fashion to our beloved NSX (as does BMW, Mercedes and Ferrari, and potentially Toyota in the near future) sorta makes me feel like - "so what?"

I think those engines you are talking about that failed are the old engines. I think since then they've been using the new more powerful engines. not sure though, someone correct me if i'm wrong.