30k incentive and future prices

[docjohn]

....maybe so but remember the base 911 was not the major target..the 458/911tt/and first maclaren was...plus you owned an esprit....and you are on prime so you don't count:tongue:

 

[docjohn]

the folks who can afford a two seat sports car at 200k already have other dd cars....

 

[DocL]

....maybe so but remember the base 911 was not the major target..the 458/911tt/and first maclaren was...plus you owned an esprit....and you are on prime so you don't count:tongue:

But the 911TT is the car to which most other cars are compared to. In that sense the NSX is a better vehicle, and I've owned a Gen1 NSX, 996TT, and now the Gen2. Forget about the Esprit. It was a POS but it was on my bucket list.

 

[docjohn]

I don't disagree but the market has spoken.....on price....

 

[Craigy]

At $120k+ this car sits in a little microcosm market of its own. What else can you really get for that money... a lightly optioned Carrera S? *Yawn*

At that point, you realistically have to come up with another $40k, $60k to get into the Turbo or Turbo S territory. $60-$80k for a McLaren 570. $40k for base R8. A pretty big gap, and a value proposition which Acura needs.

 

[powdbyrice]

I think the incentive will end and Acura will live with pokey sales for a while.

The incentive is doing the trick regarding bringing inventory levels down and getting some cars onto the street to be seen.

I live in the #3 market city in the US, and have never seen another registered one on the road (I saw one with dealer plates once on a Sunday).

We know they have cut production.

I have to believe they will try something else at some point in 2018 to move metal and my guess is it will be a friendly lease offer.

I'm in the Bay Area, we have 7 stores within 30 minutes of each other, and i've never seen one in the wild.

however, my friends have seen andy rubin and larry ellison's cars

 

[neuronbob]

I'm in the Bay Area, we have 7 stores within 30 minutes of each other, and i've never seen one in the wild.

Silicon Valley owners don't like to drive their cars? [emoji4] Seems too bad. Of course, if I had one, I'd drive the hell out of mine, just like I do my NA2.

I live in little Cleveland, and have seen two in the wild.

 

[RYU]

Looks like Honda might need to hire the Nissan marketing and sales team. Nissan has figured out their GTR is also too expensive and is now offering a cheaper version.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2018...9fcbcb404d30126266efe37&utm_medium&utm_source

Here's a freebie for you Honda... Check out the new Kia Stinger. Yes...that's right KIA. For a KIA it has the interior of an Audi (well maybe 80% there). Very very impressive for a KIA. Have I mentioned it's a KIA?

I'll update this with my crappy cellphone SEMA KIA photos later. Yes, KIA.

Update: It's not Mercedes level but it doesn't exactly remind you of an MDX either. (ps. looks much better in person)

 

[RYU]

Can we talk more about pricing for a minute...

I don't think Acura will raise the prices when all of the showroom inventory has been depleted and here's why.
* In order to sell those "old" inventory they had to reduce price, but in order to build momentum they have to ensure buyers that future prices on new (not yet made) inventory will remain at the high prices. Kind of seems like a DUH moment to me but I might be the only one that sees this.
* To maintain the sales momentum they have build in these recent weeks, once all the old inventory has been depleted they have to maintain some sort of discount or significantly change the product (I said this earlier). It would make sense that maybe instead of a 30% reduction it could be a 20% reduction... who knows where that balance is.
* Business 101 tells me that it's much better to introduce a low price and increase it based on demand. They did the exact opposite.
* My 3rd point above brings about the touchy question of dealer markups. As an ignorant consumer, I think it's highway robbery but admittedly I don't understand the business enough to comment. At a low introduction price, the NSX would have had much markup from dealers but it almost seems better to save face that way from a corporate standpoint. Someone enlighten me here please...
* Honda doesn't have a poor global economy to blame this time. The bull market is strong and fierce at the moment. There are lambos everywhere these days.

One way or another they're going to have to eat cost somewhere. Either lower prices or spend money to increase the quality/features of the offering.

I feel bad the most for enthusiast who paid the high price for the initial models. Many even paid huge markups. I also feel bad for the workers building this car in our country. I hope Honda makes it right with all of these folks. Best case scenario.. lower the price or increase the offering and sell a ton of these great cars.

 

[nsx_2k]

RYU,

You make some good points. Business is not my forte'. So I won't comment on that but it does appear the market has spoken. The car is quite overpriced for what it is. I know it is beaten repeatedly, but the added complexity of the hybrid drivetrain didn't seem to add enough oomph to the vehicle to justify its complexity and cost.

Also, I believe HotHonda is indeed correct, this iteration of the NSX may suffer a fate similar to the ZDX (not sure if people remember that). There will be so few of the cars out there that its relevance will be non-existent.

In observing the commentary from some, one facet that I find intriguing is that there are those who enjoy the fact that the car is "rare". I can understand that in some marketplaces that the uniqueness of a car is captivating; however, the rarity of this vehicle poses a problem not many haven't addressed....servicing. We all know how we love to have our precious vehicles serviced properly. With such a rare vehicle the technicians will have very few vehicles to learn from and there will be the very few truly knowledgeable folks available to navigate the intricacies of the new NSX. I queried one major dealership's service department and they have had the new NSX around for over a year. Not one has come in for even an oil change! That does not bode well for providing experience to their factory trained technicians.

 

[RYU]

@nsx_2k - to your point on the rarity factor.. has recent automotive history hasn't been particularly kind to hybrids? That's a question because i'm not sure on the what is the rate of appreciation for say a Carrera GT vs the 918 Hybrid. Or even say, the F40 vs. the LaFerrari. The EV tech moves so quickly, that it has to be a pretty darn special car for it to be.. well special enough to outweigh the outdated EV. Old iPhones are worthless as an extreme example, maybe a bad example but old watches not so much. I think time will tell if the NC1 NSX will be a collectible. It could certainly be rare. I for one do not like rare cars. Parts are scarce. Technicians are far and few between, etc...

Speaking of Porsche. We all know the 911 GT3 is probably the closest competitor to the NSX. Well, Porsche keeps stepping up the game. Each generation is unbelievably better than the next. It boggles my mind to be honest. They're now offering a 120k, 10yr warranty on the GT3 engines!!! Acura is getting left behind already. I can hardly bare to watch them getting hit from all angles...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a11658728/porsche-991-gt3-engine-warranty/

 

[N Spec]

Porsche relies on 911 sales to survive. Honda does not. Consider that.

 

[docjohn]

The current nsx importance in the big picture or Honda is so complex, because it also includes the Gt-3 FIA race program and the need to homolgate a road car....also it gives a purpose for the existence of the retooled Ohio plant and test center...It does not need to be nor is any of this consequential to the vast Honda bottom line....I think this pricing snafu will be a learning experience, and the car will continue as a halo test bed of future tech...

 

[Z06nsxcts]

I was at Cars and Coffee this morning and there were crowds gathered around the car. It looks the business and goes like stink. Honda just needs to get people in the seats. They aren't going to out-Ferrari Ferrari or out-Mclaren Mclaren. They need to hope the car proves to be reliable. That's what they can bring to the table that they better than anyone. I was considering a 570s but when I saw I could get a low-slung mid-engine AWD supercar for 60k less, and not worry about having to replace my AC touch screen for 4500 bucks it was a no brainer.

MC

2015 Yukon (zzzzzzz)
1995 Mazda Miata #02
1996 Acura NSX-T (sold)
2008 Corvette Z06 (sold)
2015 Jaguar F-Type (sold)
2011 Cadillac CTS-V (sold)

 

[Taxdr1965]

What color do you have? I didn’t think it would get a lot of attention with the Acura badge on it

 

[MisterNSX]

I spoke with my local Acura dealer this morning about the incentive. He says he can do $30k off plus $10k off MSRP, applies only to cars already built up to a certain date (don't know what that is) and on the showroom floor, never registered. When they're gone, they're gone. His blue/black one was already spoken for. Does not apply to custom-ordered future-built cars. The first one I found online that met my specs and qualified for the incentive was already sold. I think I can swing a lightly-loaded one with $40k off, I just have to find the right one and be first in line. This puts it closer to a super-nice stock late Gen 1 with very low miles.

 

[Z06nsxcts]

What color do you have? I didn’t think it would get a lot of attention with the Acura badge on it

Black. It was probably the first one people have seen out in the wild

 

[chrisn]

Here's my guess as to what Acura is thinking/doing: The big incentives serve two purposes: (i) to flush out old inventory from dealers/geographies that screwed up in ordering and pricing them wrong in the first place and (ii) in hopes of "priming the pump" / seeding the market with a few more cars in hopes of getting more word of mouth interest. I suspect the engineering investment in the "mid cycle refresh" is pretty much already spent. I think they will see how many full-price 2018 models are ordered but basically go dark in 2018 until the refresh is ready (I would not expect dramatic design changes, but I would expect a face lift with headline total power >600HP and an advertised 0-60 of <3.0 seconds). base MSRP for the 2019 will be lowered for the original-spec powertrain and will stay the same for the modestly-juiced variant. If sales are still weak for the 2019, then the next-gen engineering budget will get slashed and I suspect 2020 or 2021 will be the last year of production (no "Gen 3" NSX).

 

[RYU]

[MENTION=32457]chrisn[/MENTION] makes some interesting and sensible points

 

[Nsxer2017]

October NSX sales showed a strong rebound. 26 were sold in September and 67 in October. The discounts are starting to move cars and inventory is being cleared. If Acura limits production and doesn't flood the market next year, prices should rebound. Now seems to be the bottom!
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/07/acura-nsx-sales-figures-usa-canada/

 

[powdbyrice]

Here's my guess as to what Acura is thinking/doing: The big incentives serve two purposes: (i) to flush out old inventory from dealers/geographies that screwed up in ordering and pricing them wrong in the first place and (ii) in hopes of "priming the pump" / seeding the market with a few more cars in hopes of getting more word of mouth interest. I suspect the engineering investment in the "mid cycle refresh" is pretty much already spent. I think they will see how many full-price 2018 models are ordered but basically go dark in 2018 until the refresh is ready (I would not expect dramatic design changes, but I would expect a face lift with headline total power >600HP and an advertised 0-60 of <3.0 seconds). base MSRP for the 2019 will be lowered for the original-spec powertrain and will stay the same for the modestly-juiced variant. If sales are still weak for the 2019, then the next-gen engineering budget will get slashed and I suspect 2020 or 2021 will be the last year of production (no "Gen 3" NSX).

i think 2019 will be a slow year and then 2020 will be the refresh. My guess is power output similar to that of the SOS dream car.

2018 should be interesting with the new ordering process. There will be FAR less showroom inventory.

 

[nsx_2k]

powdbyrice,
I agree with you 2018 will be an interesting year. If it is indeed an order only process, only those truly interested in the vehicle will step up to buy. I believe at that point you will see that the desirability of the vehicle is less than many suspected.

 

[Space Truckin]

My 18 will be make or break and it will signal Acura's real intent for the NSX....JM2C...I could be wrong :wink:

 

[RYU]

October NSX sales showed a strong rebound. 26 were sold in September and 67 in October. The discounts are starting to move cars and inventory is being cleared. If Acura limits production and doesn't flood the market next year, prices should rebound. Now seems to be the bottom!
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/07/acura-nsx-sales-figures-usa-canada/

I'm not sure of the real numbers.. but I recall at any given month there were <200 units available for sale. Is that really "flooding" the market? I don't think it's an inventory count issue. I think it's a pricing issue.

i think 2019 will be a slow year and then 2020 will be the refresh. My guess is power output similar to that of the SOS dream car.

2018 should be interesting with the new ordering process. There will be FAR less showroom inventory.

SOS built a great car. Truly a refreshing rendition. It was nice to have their car at the Acura booth for SEMA. I'm sure Acura was watching closely the feedback. My fear is... would the people welcome any improvement at all or did SOS hit a sweet spot. I hope it's the later but I really don't think the lack of power was the major complaint. The car is bat shit fast already.

Secondly... didn't someone say that showroom inventory was welcomed so it could bring people into the dealerships, etc? I personally think that rationale is shortsighted. I don't have many enthusiast friends who randomly visit showrooms anymore. It's actually just the opposite. I do have many non-enthusiast friends who still go to dealership to car shop... though these people could care less about seeing a supercar in the showroom.

 

[Nsxer2017]

I'm not sure of the real numbers.. but I recall at any given month there were <200 units available for sale. Is that really "flooding" the market? I don't think it's an inventory count issue. I think it's a pricing issue.

For a car at this price range, there shouldn't be 200 cars on the dealers' lots this late in the year. Pricing is definitely an issue but excess supply is the real culprit. Remember Acura was selling 30-40 NSXs a month before the $30k discounts. These cars were selling but just not at the rate Acura had anticipated. That means at the original average MSRP of around $180k, sales target should have been around 3-400 a year in the US. The fact that we have 200 cars in inventory right now suggests a total misjudgment on pricing and demand. If Acura cuts back production and concedes on the sales target to about 300 a year, we'll be in good shape as existing owners. They can just treat the NSX as a super niche low volume model for marketing and technology showcase purpose. After all, they are probably losing money on every single unit at full price given the technology and investments. In my opinion, cutting back on production and preserving the reputation and pricing is the way to go.