2nd to 1st downshifts....

[Brian2by2]

Sorry, I posted this in Track talk too but that area doesn't get as much attention so here it goes:

Does anyone know a method to train myself for 2nd to 1st downshifts? its damn hard in these cars (compared to my mustang) and I'm having trouble rev-matching, etc. all the car ever wants to do is grind

 

[DocL]

At what speed are you trying to downshift into 1st?

I can't think of any reason to do so unless you are under 10mph and rolling up to a traffic signal. If you are trying to downshift into 1st at 30-40 mph, I suppose that the grinding id because the tranny doesn't want to do it. I have found that anytime you do something that illicits a strange noise that that action may not be the best choice.

Sorry that I don't have a specific answer, only that it doesn't sound right to begin with.

 

[NSX/MR2]

He is correct! If you want to down-shift to 1st from 2nd, do it around 25mph and below. It is fun, but some what streesful to the tranny, I would think.

 

[POWERED by HONDA]

Do a rev-matched double-clutch downshift. You should have no problems if you do it right.

 

[Brian2by2]

well, the main reason i'm asking this is because I saw my S2k buddies autox'ing this past weekend and I don't think i'd be able to do it in my car because i'd have to pick either 2nd or 1st gear for pretty much the whole course since downshift to 1st is pretty hard over 15mph...

rev match double clutch? hmmmm

 

[ChrisK]

I haven't really noticed what exact MPH I'm at, but generally if I downshift to first for a quick stop sign stop I double clutch and it goes right in. I think it is probably around 10MPH or so. I never really tried it at 25MPH, but I didn't think there was a reason to. 2nd gear pulls very strong so 20MPH I usually stay in 2nd. I do have the NSX-R gears so that might make a huge difference in the 2nd gear pull.

 

[Brian2by2]

ya my second is weak...

 

[brahtw8]

I haven't really noticed what exact MPH I'm at, but generally if I downshift to first for a quick stop sign stop I double clutch and it goes right in. I think it is probably around 10MPH or so. I never really tried it at 25MPH, but I didn't think there was a reason to. 2nd gear pulls very strong so 20MPH I usually stay in 2nd. I do have the NSX-R gears so that might make a huge difference in the 2nd gear pull.

Check the FAQs. It does. 1st gear is the same, but 2nd is much closer to 1st with the Japanese gears. (I am assuming that holds true for the NSX-R, but ICBW) The biggest problem with the stock 2nd is the drop from shift at redline in first, as you fall to 4250 or so and thus out of the powerband.

As for Bryan2by2's autocross desire, there are others on this site who autoX their X's and seem to be having a good time at it. Might I suggest a search before forums nazi does? (And, by the way, he sure does seem to keep vigilant with the 'off-topic' posts, at least in the for-sale forums. Not all that consistent, though, as a few of mine, admittedly off topic, have been deleted, where others in the same thread with equally 'irrelevant' comments were not. Sigh. )

I did a BMWCCA car control clinic in mine a few weekends back, with various exercises ending with a small autoX course. I was able to do the whole course in 1st gear. Other than a Superformance Cobra replica with a 351W engine rated at 430hp and god knows how much torque, the NSX was the only car there that could intentionally bring the rear around on the skidpad (and only in 1st gear). I suspect the older guys in the E46 M3s weren't trying hard (or didn't know how to drive,) as that car should be able to do it as well.

 

[DanO]

Does anyone know a method to train myself for 2nd to 1st downshifts? its damn hard in these cars (compared to my mustang) and I'm having trouble rev-matching, etc. all the car ever wants to do is grind

Practice in an empty parking lot or industrial park. Start slow and work your way up to around 25-30 mph. First session, don’t worry about braking, just throttle rev matching. Start in 2nd gear and at about 5-10 mph, push in the clutch and blip the throttle aggressively and quickly slide into 1st and let out the clutch. Work on the amount of throttle blip and engagment point until you are smooth and if you get really good, you won’t need the clutch, but it’s pretty hard with 1st gear. As your speed increases, you will have to really floor it when you blip to get the revs up high enough to match, but it is quite doable with practice. Around 30 mph, it’s basically a blip to rev limiter!

DanO

 

[ilya]

DanO is right on. If you're not rev matching when trying to shift into 1st like that you're going to get the grind or lockout. In fact, it will do the same in 2nd gear if your speed is high enough.

You won't be able to rev match and brake at the same time during an autox until you practice heel-toe and get it down. You'll be braking with the ball of your foot and blipping the throttle with your heel while your left foot works the clutch.

I had this problem coming into turn 3 at Willow until I got better doing this. I could never get my car back into 2nd (from 3rd) at around 50-60 as I was braking before the turn, but not blipping the throttle before shifting. The car just refused to shift into 2nd 50% of the time at that speed. Once I figured out how to brake before the turn and rev match for the shift at the same time it worked much better.

 

[Smoothaccel]

Safety

I have always downshifted to 1st from 2nd at speeds between 15MPH and around 35 MPH. After 3 years, I decided to install the type-r gears oh BTW I love my new 2nd gear. While my dranny was down, according to my mechanic, there were no damage to the gears or syncros whatsoever. He said that the wear on the syncros was minimal and the little point on each of the syncros was still there.