07 Civic Type-r VS NSX Type-S

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There are mixed reviews about that video, (almost like a Honda commercial in a way) since they are trying to convince us that the Civic Type R is somehow able to best the S2000 and the 350Z on a race track is beyond comprehension, not to mention that its shadows the NSX type S's laptime by less then 1 second. Many people say that its just trying to promote the new Civic Type R.
 
There are mixed reviews about that video, (almost like a Honda commercial in a way) since they are trying to convince us that the Civic Type R is somehow able to best the S2000 and the 350Z on a race track is beyond comprehension, not to mention that its shadows the NSX type S's laptime by less then 1 second. Many people say that its just trying to promote the new Civic Type R.

Every time people disagree with what Best Motoring says, they always say they are biased. I don't think that's the case, other than the likes and dislikes the reviewers express quite freely. I think the most you can say is they are usually polite about criticizing cars, but that's part of Japanese culture which some people misinterpret. I bought this DVD, and it's one of the best episodes in quite a while.

The thing they really emphasize is that the new CTR is really hard core, with really stiff suspension and "pointed" handling. There is even a ride quality test where the driver Daisuke Ito is commenting how the ride is stiff but doesn't seem too bad, and the passengers (who wear comical warning lights that flash when they feel things are too rough) clearly disagree.

When they compare lap times at Suzuka, they quote lap times that were very comparable to what they have gotten with relatively fast cars back in the late 90s like the NSX Type SZero, Lancer Evo V, Ferrari F355, and RX-7. i.e. 2:3X. If the new CTR does 2:35 at Suzuka, then there's no disputing it's fast. Maybe it was also a nice cold day which always helps.
 
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Every time people disagree with what Best Motoring says, they always say they are biased. I don't think that's the case, other than the likes and dislikes the reviewers express quite freely. I think the most you can say is they are usually polite about criticizing cars, but that's part of Japanese culture which some people misinterpret. I bought this DVD, and it's one of the best episodes in quite a while.

The thing they really emphasize is that the new CTR is really hard core, with really stiff suspension and "pointed" handling. There is even a ride quality test where the driver Daisuke Ito is commenting how the ride is stiff but doesn't seem too bad, and the passengers (who wear comical warning lights that flash when they feel things are too rough) clearly disagree.

When they compare lap times at Suzuka, they quote lap times that were very comparable to what they have gotten with relatively fast cars back in the late 90s like the NSX Type SZero, Lancer Evo V, Ferrari F355, and RX-7. i.e. 2:3X. If the new CTR does 2:35 at Suzuka, then there's no disputing it's fast. Maybe it was also a nice cold day which always helps.

I guess people were having mixed reviews since we don't currently have one here to drive , but at Kingmotorsports I saw that they are looking into bringing those parts here. As far as it's times go it was about fourteen or more years tech advance over the cars you mentioned so why shouldn't it be close to those cars times. More effecient engine , suspension , brakes and tires.
 
Every time people disagree with what Best Motoring says, they always say they are biased. I don't think that's the case, other than the likes and dislikes the reviewers express quite freely. I think the most you can say is they are usually polite about criticizing cars, but that's part of Japanese culture which some people misinterpret. I bought this DVD, and it's one of the best episodes in quite a while.

The thing they really emphasize is that the new CTR is really hard core, with really stiff suspension and "pointed" handling. There is even a ride quality test where the driver Daisuke Ito is commenting how the ride is stiff but doesn't seem too bad, and the passengers (who wear comical warning lights that flash when they feel things are too rough) clearly disagree.

When they compare lap times at Suzuka, they quote lap times that were very comparable to what they have gotten with relatively fast cars back in the late 90s like the NSX Type SZero, Lancer Evo V, Ferrari F355, and RX-7. i.e. 2:3X. If the new CTR does 2:35 at Suzuka, then there's no disputing it's fast. Maybe it was also a nice cold day which always helps.

You do make a point, however don't forget that the NSX Type S's last production was in 2005 and the S2000 is still being produced as we speak. There is no doubt that the CTR is fast but to outperform other cars that have better power to weight ratio as well as better weight distribution is a bit suspicious. In terms of marketing, Honda wouldn't make a cheaper car faster then its higher performance as well as higher priced cars because its simply not smart in terms of marketing a product. If you watch the lap time on that video you can see the fastest lap time made by those cars and it still seems that some drivers were "sandbagging" their cars.
 
You do make a point, however don't forget that the NSX Type S's last production was in 2005 and the S2000 is still being produced as we speak. There is no doubt that the CTR is fast but to outperform other cars that have better power to weight ratio as well as better weight distribution is a bit suspicious. In terms of marketing, Honda wouldn't make a cheaper car faster then its higher performance as well as higher priced cars because its simply not smart in terms of marketing a product. If you watch the lap time on that video you can see the fastest lap time made by those cars and it still seems that some drivers were "sandbagging" their cars.

You're right, looking at an older episode, I see that the NSX Type S has done 1:05.83 in the past where it is doing about 1:07.66 in the newer episode. Given the difference that weather makes (say about 1+ seconds between a cold and warm day), it seems like the difference is slightly larger than you would expect. The drivers are different as well (Tsuchiya for the older one, Iida for the newer one), although I think almost all the drivers are pretty competent, considering they are paid professionals. We must also consider that the primary mission of the races is to illustrate the differences between the cars and to show the viewers how they compare, although the time attack laps are supposed to provide the timed benchmark for lap times.

On outperforming cars with a better power to weight ratio and better weight distribution--of course you can achieve that! It's all about how you set up the suspension, select tires, and lighten the car--it's all about cornering speed. That counts for quite a lot and easily makes up for any deficiency in straightline speed. And as we saw on the back straight, the Civic was no slouch there either. If Honda did make the Civic faster than the S2000, then it's something to be praised. Maybe that's why the S2000 CR is coming, with beefy suspension and the same sticky tires as the CTR has.

An interesting comment after the race is that the S2000 and the rear drive cars were fun to drive, while the Civic was not as fun. Their conclusion was that with the new CTR, Honda gave them the impression that it was all about speed and to never mind about having fun. The S2000 driver was also being ribbed about how he kept missing shifts.

Despite the lap time discrepancies (and only with the NSX), I think it's really, really hard to believe that somehow the drivers are coordinating and conspiring to make only Hondas look good. There are too many other episodes where other cars look good. i.e. see the introduction of the RX-8, 350Z, Skyline R34 GT-R. There have been episodes where they really criticized a car, like the MG-F. The drivers are also different from episode to episode, like Yuji Ide in this CTR episode.

Okay, I just looked at another episode (review of the Cayman), and the NSX Type S does 1:06.0, the S2000 does 1:08.93. The 350Z is 1:08.71. These times are pretty consistent with the older episode I checked above.

Here are the Tsukuba lap times across three BM episodes. Only the NSX was in all three.

NSX Type S: 1:05.83, 1:06.0, 1:07.66<-CTR intro episode
S2000: 1:08.78, 1:08.93
350Z: 1:08.71<-older model, 1:07.87<-2007 model with VQ35HR engine
 
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What is the dif between tha Farlady Z and the US Z

The jap spec Z pulled in the s2k:confused:

The Z that i had was slow! A stock s2k would kill it and mine was hooked up:redface:
 
What is the dif between tha Farlady Z and the US Z

The jap spec Z pulled in the s2k:confused:

The Z that i had was slow! A stock s2k would kill it and mine was hooked up:redface:

According to Best Motoring, the 350Z is Japan's fastest FR car at the moment in terms of the new model line up's.
 
The latest Z has much more power than the first and second generations, and is faster than most NA1 NSX's in stock form.

Anyone know where I can get this latest BM video in higher than youtube resolution?
 
Apparently Mugen is going to sell their version of the R.

img1.jpg


check out the vid on their website. It laps tsukuba in 1:06:xx wow!

http://www.mugen-power.com/street/RR/
 
reviving an old thread. I was watching this vid on youtube tonight and was impressed with the lap times. Reading over posted above, I agree that is a marketing tactic to demostrate how potent the (not so new anymore I guess) civic r is against honda's higher priced nsx flagship without "being faster" than it. Though, in the beginning it Keichi does a time trial of 2'35.20 which is 0.24 sec faster than the 'older' flip headlight NSX-S zero. Then, same track, same driver in the civic r, and battle race format where the civic starts ahead of the nsx that has to deal with traffic, yet looses to the facelifted 02+ NSX S by a larger margin; though it seems like the nsx had the speed to pass but was blocked by the civic. Makes me wonder, if all the varaibles were equal, how much quicker the nsx could really be?

Plus, IMO..1)honda 'massages' their press car. 2)Keichi is a much better driver(as seen in other vids where he races his personal nsx-r against ferrari/lambos).

and 3) my most unsettling feel is the tire. Tire compound technology has greatly improved over the past 10+ years. The NSX-S zero from the beginning lapped a 2'35.44 on tire technology that was relevent in 1998ish. Put the same bridgestone potenza RE070 tires from the civic r onto the NSX-S zero or any of the older japanese sports cars and I suspect the older cars would lap proportionally quicker than the civic r.

Thoughts?
 
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