ABS Rebuild?

[Honcho]

Now that the 2001+ ABS system upgrade is close to $4000 I am sure many of us are re-evaluating performing this upgrade- I know I am. If I recall, Brad or someone else was in the process of taking apart a unit and matching aftermarket O-rings and other seals. Has anyone tried this? I was thinking we could come up with a 91-00 ABS rebuild kit with a list of the seals needed to completely rebuild the unit. I think most of the problem is in the solenoid cylinders, where the piston o-rings stick to the cylinder, tear and eventually disintegrate. If we could come up with an o-ring kit and perform the flush every 2-3 years on new rubber, I bet we could get another 15-20 years out of these systems. Thoughts?

 

[shawn110975]

yeah I am sure lots of people would consider it, if it had a great write up. DIY section.

I was gonna rebuild mine but I am getting an 02 system LOL and will be putting it in my 92 but I still need to buy the SOS plug and play harness as I dont really feel like making one. but 500 bucks for a foot of wire Ughhh I might just have to make it my self.

its the same system in most new hondas, you would only need to buy the new brake lines, and SOS harness,

so you could get an used Accord/Acura ABS system for 300 bucks minus the new brake lines and harness

when the name NSX is on the box they automatically add 1500 bucks to the price.

 

[e.pie]

yeah I am sure lots of people would consider it, if it had a great write up. DIY section.

I was gonna rebuild mine but I am getting an 02 system LOL and will be putting it in my 92 but I still need to buy the SOS plug and play harness as I dont really feel like making one. but 500 bucks for a foot of wire Ughhh I might just have to make it my self.

its the same system in most new hondas, you would only need to buy the new brake lines, and SOS harness,

so you could get an used Accord/Acura ABS system for 300 bucks minus the new brake lines and harness

when the name NSX is on the box they automatically add 1500 bucks to the price.

More details on this?

I'm assuming it's just the pump that gets changed out, so brake bias and ABS engagement is still controlled by NSX parts?

 

[Hrant]

Shad at DrivingAmbition has a few kits that he has dismantled and was actually working on a similar idea - having a kit.

If there is enough interest/demand, I am sure he will devote time and resources. Money talks :wink:

 

[shawn110975]

e.pie

yes the pumps are the same, from year to year to year.

now after you replace the OLD 300lbs ABS pump and put in the new one. you would need to new steel brake tubes/lines to connect the new pump

and the harness from SOS to make it a plug n play system.

yes it uses all NSX parts, except the pump is from an accord or TSX, TL what ever you get. they are the same

 

[SFNSXguy]

Sorry to say, but I've been suggesting the upgrade to all who would listen for several years... Price is now DOUBLE. As they say, "you snooze, you lose."

 

[e.pie]

e.pie

yes the pumps are the same, from year to year to year.

now after you replace the OLD 300lbs ABS pump and put in the new one. you would need to new steel brake tubes/lines to connect the new pump

and the harness from SOS to make it a plug n play system.

yes it uses all NSX parts, except the pump is from an accord or TSX, TL what ever you get. they are the same

Interesting, looks like it's time to hit the junkyards.

 

[Honcho]

I share this concern. For example, I found a 2001 Integra modulator unit for about $600. It looks just like the 2001 NSX unit. But, as I understand it, the "brain" for the new system is integrated into the modulator where the "brain" in the old system is located under the glovebox. Am I correct in assuming the "brain" controls important things like bias and engagement? If so, using an Integra unit on a NSX would give you ABS response calibrated for an Integra! Probably not so safe. I think we need to confirm that the new modulator will be properly calibrated to the NSX, no matter where it comes from (Integra, Accord, etc.) That sounds like a Shad or Chris W Question. I would be happy to buy the harness, pipes and brackets from SOS and hook them up to a junkyard modulator off an Integra!

More details on this?

I'm assuming it's just the pump that gets changed out, so brake bias and ABS engagement is still controlled by NSX parts?

 

[Honcho]

A little further research. It seems the only modulator unit that shares the same physical mounting configuration with the NSX is 57110-S6M-J01 from 02-04 RSX models. It lists for $1190.72.

The cheapest modulator appears to be from the 1999 CL, 57110-SS8-A51, which lists for $766.57. However, you would need to fab a bracket to mount it in the NSX.

I also checked Kaz's DIY over at NSXCB and he did remove the old ABS controller under the glovebox. That confirms to me that the new controller is integrated into the modulator. This raises a serious concern that these modulators may not be calibrated for the NSX's weight distribution and brake bias. I would need confirmation that the modulators all operate the same way before putting one in my NSX. If so, maybe an enterprising member (SOS, Ti Dave, etc.) can fab up a bracket so that we can use the cheap CL modulator. We would still have to use the NSX pipes and proportioning valve, though.

Finally, I noticed that many modulators like the one in my RDX are called "BSC" or "VSA" modulators, meaning they have code for the newer cars' stability control systems. I don't think they would work for a NSX.

 

[chudson1549]

I just got the new ABL systems from Chris before they went up. You do remove the old brain from the loop. It's in the new pump system. HTH

 

[MvM]

A little further research. It seems the only modulator unit that shares the same physical mounting configuration with the NSX is 57110-S6M-J01 from 02-04 RSX models. It lists for $1190.72.

I also checked Kaz's DIY over at NSXCB and he did remove the old ABS controller under the glovebox. That confirms to me that the new controller is integrated into the modulator. This raises a serious concern that these modulators may not be calibrated for the NSX's weight distribution and brake bias. I would need confirmation that the modulators all operate the same way before putting one in my NSX.

I think the best way would be to simply try a RSX model on a NSX and see what the results are.

Otherwise, I'm a little lost as to what exactly is there to 'calibrate' on an ABS system?? (Theoretically speaking)

The NSX has a four channel ABS system. Meaning that EACH wheel is controlled independently by the ABS computer.
AFAIK, ALL the wheel sensors do is sending wheel speed information to the ABS system. The system then calculates the deceleration values (in meters per second squared (m/s^2) and if this value has suddenly increased to an extreme value (like, for example, -40 m/s^2), the system will then conclude that lockup is imminent and release brake pressure until the achieved values are within the parameters programmed.

Practically ALL modern cars are capable of values in the neighboorhood of 10-11 m/s2.
I doubt that there is anything really particular about the NSX ABS-modulator compared with other Honda models. Brake bias is important of course, but this is part of the general brake system layout and is independent of the ABS-modulator.

 

[Chris NSX]

If you use a RSX modulator the TCS light will stay on because the RSX don't have traction control.

You can use a Integra ABS and the NSX ABS computer under the glove box.

 

[Honcho]

I thought the NSX TCS system was a throttle-interruption based system. not a brake modulation system? The TCS integrates with the ABS? I'm looking through my service manual and it looks like a separate system.

 

[Honcho]

Some further research. After looking at the TCS section of the service manual, Chris NSX is right. It looks like the wheel speed sensor signals pass through the ABS control unit before going to the TCS control unit. Therefore, if using the Integra/RSX ABS, the signal would stop at the ABS modulator and not make it to the TCS system, which would give you a TCS light. This makes sense because the TCS system would be seeing no signal from any wheel sensor.

However, the TCS circuit diagram appears to indicate that the signal simply passes through the ABS unit on its way to the TCS- it doesn't look like the ABS control unit modifies the signal in any way. Therefore, it may be possible to splice and route the wheel speed sensor wires directly to the TCS control unit.

 

[Vuur1007]

Is the Honda S2000 ABS modulator also a possibility?

If a S2000 also has TCS are there clues on how to connect the wires?

 

[Sudesh]

Does anyone have good photos of the NSX NA2 ABS Modulator? Would like to see it from more angles and the socket where the plug goes into.

 

[Honcho]

This is a good idea, but the S2000 is fairly rare as well. The idea of using an Integra or Accord unit is that they are plentiful and cheap.

Is the Honda S2000 ABS modulator also a possibility?

If a S2000 also has TCS are there clues on how to connect the wires?

 

[Silver Surfer]

More words of wisdom from Kaz...

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?8802-Future-ABS-upgrades...../page2

SS

 

[goldNSX]

Price is now DOUBLE.

WTH double? It's not the cable. What adds to the double price? I did this mod for a reasonable but still high costs back in 2008. It looks like the modulator is $2300 discounted now, I've paid less than $800 back in 2008 or $1500 less. It's the same price as the old pump. Maybe they've found out that people are going to the newer one if the old one fails.

@MvM: the newer ABS comes with a valve that changes brake bias under load. Up to 98 there was no such thing.

 

[nigel]

Sudesh, i'm sure Kaz can get you sorted with pics for that.
All others, Brad, (OLDMNSX) is the man for the rebuild of the old syle ABS system.
He's put in alot of time and effort to see it's done right. P/M him and i'm sure if he's back he'll be glad to help. Even if he isn't back i'm certain he'd be glad to help and it would take his mind off work for a few minuttes.

Cheers
nigel

 

[Sudesh]

Sudesh, i'm sure Kaz can get you sorted with pics for that.
All others, Brad, (OLDMNSX) is the man for the rebuild of the old syle ABS system.
He's put in alot of time and effort to see it's done right. P/M him and i'm sure if he's back he'll be glad to help. Even if he isn't back i'm certain he'd be glad to help and it would take his mind off work for a few minuttes.

Cheers
nigel

I'm pretty much sorted now Nigel with regards the pics. I'm actually looking at an alternative Honda setup which I plan to test on my car. As my car doesnt have TCS, I have purchased a system that also is TCS free, but I have also bought a modulator that has TCS like the NSX one.

 

[Silver Surfer]

I'm pretty much sorted now Nigel with regards the pics. I'm actually looking at an alternative Honda setup which I plan to test on my car. As my car doesnt have TCS, I have purchased a system that also is TCS free, but I have also bought a modulator that has TCS like the NSX one.

Let me know how you get on Sudesh as I also have disconnected the TCS as it was malfunctioning...if you manage , I am sure all the pre-97 guys will be forever grateful!! :biggrin:

SS

 

[Sudesh]

Let me know how you get on Sudesh as I also have disconnected the TCS as it was malfunctioning...if you manage , I am sure all the pre-97 guys will be forever grateful!! :biggrin:

SS

Will do Kare! I figured the only way to find out is to just do the thing and see how it goes.

 

[MvM]

I am very curious to see if SOS or someone else will find a different solution to this upgrade question.

However, now that I have a '98 NSX, I am not so sure I will do the upgrade.
The 1997+ ABS system, even if it looks exactly the same as the 1991-1996 version, is definately different and works much better than the system I had in my 1994 NSX.
Now that I have the Racing Brake big brake kit on the car with Hawk pads I have much more confidence in the braking ability of the car. Enough anyway to step really hard on the brakes even at high(er) 100+ mph speeds.

 

[Chris NSX]

There are two guys here have Integra ABS and using the NSX TCS computer inside the cabin. I think the only parts they bought was 3 brake line and the proportioning valve.

The RSX ABS did give a TSC code.

Maybe they would post their setup.