you know how to tell when you're trail braking really hard?
- Thread starter shrddr
- Start date
Damn! You turned your NSX into a Volkswagen Golf.
Damn! You turned your NSX into a Volkswagen Golf.
hehe
this picture does help a lot though, in that it highlights setup changes i need to make... like stiffening up the front sway bar a bit more, and reducing the rear rebound damping. it's no wonder the car has been a bit loose the last few events
I was going to comment on the setup, but saw you were running B Stock and thought aftermarket sways and coilovers would move you into B Street Prep.
i am allowed to run any front sway bar (cannot change/remove the rear bar), and can use any shock (not spring). i have koni single adjustables.
How are your front tire temps?
+1 on more front bar, maybe less rear bar as well.
+1 on more front bar, maybe less rear bar as well.
How will more rear rebound reduce the inside rear from lifting?
with the rules in the class, i cannot change/remove the rear bar... not can i change springs. i can only change the FRONT bar, and shocks.
i do not have exact front tire temps, but the outside is warmer than the inside. sadly, i cannot do anything to add more camber given the rules of the class.
that said, i do have the daliracing 1" front bar, but it is set in the middle endlink hole. i tried to move the endlink to the stiffest position, but the stock endlinks do not reach there... so i need to get my hands on some longer/compatible endlinks
i do not have exact front tire temps, but the outside is warmer than the inside. sadly, i cannot do anything to add more camber given the rules of the class.
that said, i do have the daliracing 1" front bar, but it is set in the middle endlink hole. i tried to move the endlink to the stiffest position, but the stock endlinks do not reach there... so i need to get my hands on some longer/compatible endlinks
here is video from that event...
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SgNNXfhoOVw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SgNNXfhoOVw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
It would. Body roll/dive is not weight transfer.
See if that will reach but you might want to try the 1.125" bar. Or cut your springs slightly to lower your height.with the rules in the class, i cannot change/remove the rear bar... not can i change springs. i can only change the FRONT bar, and shocks.
i do not have exact front tire temps, but the outside is warmer than the inside. sadly, i cannot do anything to add more camber given the rules of the class.
that said, i do have the daliracing 1" front bar, but it is set in the middle endlink hole. i tried to move the endlink to the stiffest position, but the stock endlinks do not reach there... so i need to get my hands on some longer/compatible endlinks
My car is a lot stiffer with the Targa ON. I'm curious to see what your time would have been with it in place.
Last Autocross event, I did 12 runs and the last one I did with the Targa off. Huge difference, so much infact that I completely had to blow though a cone on the last chicane. Not only did I get penalized for missing the cone, my base time was also slower...
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "too late on the brakes and thus understeer on entry"... if you hold your braking into the turn (trail brake), you'll get less understeer and more oversteer..
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trail braking mean just that... trailing on them. being too late means entering way too fast, and at that point no amount of trailing is going to help you... you have simply exceeded the physical capabilities of the front tires even with the added weight transfer of braking
oh, and i have tried running with the targa in place... i noticed no real difference. without the targa, i end up removing ~15 lbs from the top, and gain a little more clearance for my helmet. if i was road racing it would be a different story, but for autocross, i believe the weight loss from removing it trumps the stiffness gain from leaving it in place.
trail braking mean just that... trailing on them. being too late means entering way too fast, and at that point no amount of trailing is going to help you... you have simply exceeded the physical capabilities of the front tires even with the added weight transfer of braking
oh, and i have tried running with the targa in place... i noticed no real difference. without the targa, i end up removing ~15 lbs from the top, and gain a little more clearance for my helmet. if i was road racing it would be a different story, but for autocross, i believe the weight loss from removing it trumps the stiffness gain from leaving it in place.
I guess I just didn't understand the "understeer" part in the video text ... if you brake too late, you don't necessarily understeer, you just overshoot the turn-in point...
As for the Targa part, like I said, I noticed a huge difference in turn in sharpness and overall body stiffness. Removing 15 lbs is nothing in autocross.. in fact, one of the instructors was posting better times with a passenger in car (a 150lb+ passenger). I myself, noticed no real difference in timing with a passenger or not... maybe because I got more aggressive with a passenger in the car then without..
For helmet clearance, I found that this product made the biggest difference in the world.. the Dali Racing seat cushion. It gives you about 2 inches of additional head clearance.. enough for your helmet.
http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=447
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think about what it means to overshoot the turn in point; it means that the car was moving too quickly for the front wheels to effectively change the direction of the car... which in other words, is situational understeer
Trailbraking puts more load on the front tires. More load = more grip until you overload the tires where they will lose grip and understeer.
Its all about the traction circle. Too much steering and braking input that asks for more than 100% of the tires available grip, will cause understeer.
Its a balance if adding more grip, and balancing and riding the edge of the traction circle blending the brakes with steering.
Its all about the traction circle. Too much steering and braking input that asks for more than 100% of the tires available grip, will cause understeer.
Its a balance if adding more grip, and balancing and riding the edge of the traction circle blending the brakes with steering.
think about what it means to overshoot the turn in point; it means that the car was moving too quickly for the front wheels to effectively change the direction of the car... which in other words, is situational understeer
So I understeer everytime I miss my exit on the freeway?? All this time I thought it was my fault, I guess it was just understeer, SON! :biggrin::tongue:
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Nice picture! Soften up that rear bar and stiffen the front as most have said. Test, tune and report results!
as i mentioned, i cannot change anything with the rear bar with the rules of the class i am running in. i am waiting for a bigger front sway bar (1.125" trophy bar), but in the mean time, at the last event... i tried reducing the rear rebound damping.
i hated it.
i love the corner entry rotation i used to get, and reducing the rear rebound damping totally killed that rotation. i want to retain that entry rotation but want the car to stabilize a bit more mid corner onwards. i believe the bigger front bar will help with that.
What are the rules in terms of strut tower bars? I have the STMPO Targa Rear Strut Bar and noticed that it not only did it greatly increase the overall stiffness but seemed to add in increasing oversteer the last time I was at the track.
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What are the rules in terms of strut tower bars? I have the STMPO Targa Rear Strut Bar and noticed that it not only did it greatly increase the overall stiffness but seemed to add in increasing oversteer the last time I was at the track.
So, you noticed a difference on the track between the OEM triangle bar and the STMPO bar, even though they are anchored and shaped the same?
Yes, the difference was SIGNIFICANT. I was skeptical myself before I bought it, but a great deal came on one in the classifieds so I bought it.
Overall chassis stiffness increased greatly. All the creeks and squeaks disappeared completely from the Targa and the car just plan felt stiffer. Also, I noticed that the back end came out a lot easier than the track session before. The only difference was this bar.
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