Yet another competitor

[JoeSchmoe]

It looks like 1G Racing has acquired exclusive rights to the Noble M12 and are marketing a restyled version of it. The new bodywork looks better than before (and infinitely better than the ASCC). If they haven't meddled with its handling and mechanics from the M12, it should have no problem hanging with the end supercars. This is pretty much what the HSC should have been...


ROSSION AUTOMOTIVE ANNOUNCES WORLD DEBUT OF THRILLING NEW ROSSION Q1

From the Rossion website:

Performance
0-60mph:
3.3 seconds (est)

0-100mph:
8.0 seconds (est)

Max speed:
185mph (est)


Engine
Rossion Q1 chassis USA are sold without engine and transaxle. Similar USA engine specs are available from independent engine builders

Construction:
All-alloy block and heads

Layout:
6 cyls in vee, 2968cc, twin turbochargers

Max power:
450bhp at 6500 rpm

Max torque:
400lb ft at 5000rpm

Compression Ratio:
8:0:1

Power to weight:
418bhp per tonne

Torque per weight:
371lb ft per tonne

Specific output:
143 bhp per litre

Installation:
Transverse, mid-engine, rear-wheel drive

Bore/stroke:
89.0/79.5mm

Valve gear:
4 per cyl, dohc per bank

Ignition and fuel:
Electronic

Turbochargers:
Water-cooled with air to air intercooler; max boost at 0.85 bar



Dimensions
Length:
162in

Width (inc.mirrors):
74in

Height:
45in

Wheelbase:
96in

Max/min legroom:
44/39in

Headroom:
39in

Interior width:
55in

Kerbweight:
2387lbs



-- Joe

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

Rumor has it that the new 3.5V6 can be fitted with a cometic .140 HG and twin GT28rs will push 0-60 in 2.8 seconds, 0-100 in 7.5, and 1/4 in 9.8 @142... Total HP raises to 560...

 

[Deltron Zero]

looks like a cross between a Carrera GT and a NSX

 

[DrVolkl]

How friendly of a car is that going to be to drive on a daily basis?

Lets not forget that the NSX was not only a top performer in it's day, it was also a very easy to drive, start whenever you needed it, comfortable car.

The Noble, while amazing, is going to give on some of those aspects.
(Otherwise I suspect more of us would already be driving one)

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

This is a new model Noble. The other was closer to a track rack, this is deisgned just like the NSX and Porsche to be a car to cruise it... Hense why the new model should be quite special...

 

[DrVolkl]

This is a new model Noble. The other was closer to a track rack, this is deisgned just like the NSX and Porsche to be a car to cruise it... Hense why the new model should be quite special...

Perhaps someone can tell me why they still sell it sans engine/tranns? This fact alone would make me believe that the car is simply going to be less reliable. I begin to think "kit car" when I have to find my own power plant or worse, someone to stick it in there. I can't imagine you could get anywhere near Honda factory tolerances from something you need to assemble yourself.

Why don't more people own Nobles?? I would personally love to see one up close...I've always been a fan.

 

[DocL]

Perhaps someone can tell me why they still sell it sans engine/tranns? This fact alone would make me believe that the car is simply going to be less reliable.

To give you the option of installing an engine of your choice that they offer.

Why don't more people own Nobles?? I would personally love to see one up close...I've always been a fan.

The reason why there are not a lot of them around is because there is a very small dealer network. I've been in a few and they are put together very well. They have A/C that works just as good as the A/C in the NSX, and the materials of the interior are excellent. By no means does this car look or feel like a "kit car".

 

[chumch]

Perhaps someone can tell me why they still sell it sans engine/tranns? This fact alone would make me believe that the car is simply going to be less reliable. I begin to think "kit car" when I have to find my own power plant or worse, someone to stick it in there. I can't imagine you could get anywhere near Honda factory tolerances from something you need to assemble yourself.

Why don't more people own Nobles?? I would personally love to see one up close...I've always been a fan.

I think the real reason for the car sold without the drivetrain is to it can be sold as a "kit" car and therefore does not need to meet safety standards, have airbags, and meet federal pollution standards.

 

[DrVolkl]

The reason why there are not a lot of them around is because there is a very small dealer network. I've been in a few and they are put together very well. They have A/C that works just as good as the A/C in the NSX, and the materials of the interior are excellent. By no means does this car look or feel like a "kit car".

I consider NSX owners to be fairly knowledgeable when it comes to cars. I have yet to see the "I sold my NSX for a Noble" thread.

Small network or not, I'm a little surprised. All the stats on paper make this a pretty logical next step from our cars. Are they unsafe by any means? (commenting on their ability to avoid crash tests by not coming with engines)

Can you license them easily in every state? Is there a "noble" forum? I'd like to learn more about these cars.

The title of this thread is "yet another competitor"...but I'm not sure that this car really is one. i.e. I haven't seen anyone jump ship yet, and it's been out for awhile.

 

[ANYTIME]

I consider NSX owners to be fairly knowledgeable when it comes to cars. I have yet to see the "I sold my NSX for a Noble" thread.

Small network or not, I'm a little surprised. All the stats on paper make this a pretty logical next step from our cars. Are they unsafe by any means? (commenting on their ability to avoid crash tests by not coming with engines)

Can you license them easily in every state? Is there a "noble" forum? I'd like to learn more about these cars.

The title of this thread is "yet another competitor"...but I'm not sure that this car really is one. i.e. I haven't seen anyone jump ship yet, and it's been out for awhile.

Marc (SpeedDemon) sold his TT NSX to purchase a Noble and sold it shortly there after here. :biggrin:
He never started a thread though....

 

[Bryan]

Perhaps someone can tell me why they still sell it sans engine/tranns? This fact alone would make me believe that the car is simply going to be less reliable. I begin to think "kit car" when I have to find my own power plant or worse, someone to stick it in there. I can't imagine you could get anywhere near Honda factory tolerances from something you need to assemble yourself.

They are sold as "component cars" because there is no way they could pay for all the engineering and testing required for a federally approved automobile. It's the same reason we don't see other low volume production cars here in the States. They won't do the same level of crash testing and don't include things like airbags, so I suppose you could worry about safety if you like. Likewise they aren't going to put a million miles of testing on the car, so reliability might suffer.

I don't think the Noble/Roisson is in the same category as a full-up street car (especially one from somebody like Honda or Porsche), but that doesn't mean it isn't an impressive car. It's produced in a real factory in South Africa and the engineering as well as fit and finish seem to be excellent on the cars I've seen. I haven't driven one and can't comment on the dynamics, but the reviews are uniformly positive.

1G Racing (Roisson) has taken over the current car (at least in the US), so it's not really a Noble any more. It's still built by the same factory in South Africa, but Noble is not involved. 1G Racing will source and install the engine/trans for you, so it's a turnkey car if that's what you want.

Noble is building a new, higher end car (the M15), but there's no word on it's availability in the States yet.

 

[BD]

Noble...?

I don't believe the Curb Weight. with a V6?

 

[DrVolkl]

Marc (SpeedDemon) sold his TT NSX to purchase a Noble and sold it shortly there after here. :biggrin:
He never started a thread though....

So that's it? 2004...someone sells and NSX and then buys a Noble and then sells the Noble due to financial issues?

Again...is this a competitor?

Come on guys...why isn't this car more popular...you just told me that "It's not a kit car", it's "got options for whatever engine you want" and it's "reviews are uniformly positive".

I'm not trying to be an ass.....but I just want to see someone step forward and tell me why this car can hold a torch to an NSX...perhaps a Noble owner?


Personally: love the car...just a little scared that no one else has one.

 

[jorligan]

Some facts regarding the Noble.

1. 3 NSX owners have Nobles that I know of, all kept their NSX.
2. By selling it as a "component" car, it doesn't have to pass crash standards or federalization. It doesn't have air bags but it does have a roll cage. A crash in England on the track resulted in totaling the car but the driver walked away from the car with no injuries. It does have catalytic converters but they can be removed with no penalty.
3. Reliability is good (No battery jokes):smile:
4. With the current remapped ECUs, the current cars make way more than the 450BHP, our M12 with new exhaust, fuel pump, remapped ECU and IC puts out closer to 450 RWHP.
5. www.turbohoses.com for Dyno of remapped ECU.
6. I doubt that the performance numbers are really valid about 0-60 times since the problem is getting power to the ground (Tires spin on hard launch through 4th gear).
7. Website: www.nobleforums.com
8. As a daily driver, not nearly as comfortable as the NSX but the wife drives it when it isn't raining, snowing, or when she isn't hauling the kids.
9. Registration has happened in almost every state including CA,NY,FL,MI,TX,IL,CO,OH,IN to name a few.
10. Installers are available coast to coast.
11. There has been no dealer network, all were purchased from 1G Racing
12. I suspect that the split with Noble was not because of the car itself but due to support issues regarding the engine, esp. the engine management. When the car finally got to the states in significant numbers, we Americans started dynoing the cars and found that some produced less HP than expected and that the cars weren't tuned all that well despite the original tuning being done by Roush. Once the unlock codes were made "public", remapped ECUs have shown much greater power with better drivability.
13. The performance difference between the NSX and Noble resulted in me upgrading the NSX twice.
14. For those of you have seen my Noble at XPO, the car now is by far faster. Still waiting to see if my FI NSX is equal in power as well as track performance.
15. Any questions, PM me.

 

[my1stnsx]

Some facts regarding the Noble.

1. 3 NSX owners have Nobles that I know of, all kept their NSX.
2. By selling it as a "component" car, it doesn't have to pass crash standards or federalization. It doesn't have air bags but it does have a roll cage. A crash in England on the track resulted in totaling the car but the driver walked away from the car with no injuries. It does have catalytic converters but they can be removed with no penalty.
3. Reliability is good (No battery jokes):smile:
4. With the current remapped ECUs, the current cars make way more than the 450BHP, our M12 with new exhaust, fuel pump, remapped ECU and IC puts out closer to 450 RWHP.
5. www.turbohoses.com for Dyno of remapped ECU.
6. I doubt that the performance numbers are really valid about 0-60 times since the problem is getting power to the ground (Tires spin on hard launch through 4th gear).
7. Website: www.nobleforums.com
8. As a daily driver, not nearly as comfortable as the NSX but the wife drives it when it isn't raining, snowing, or when she isn't hauling the kids.
9. Registration has happened in almost every state including CA,NY,FL,MI,TX,IL,CO,OH,IN to name a few.
10. Installers are available coast to coast.
11. There has been no dealer network, all were purchased from 1G Racing
12. I suspect that the split with Noble was not because of the car itself but due to support issues regarding the engine, esp. the engine management. When the car finally got to the states in significant numbers, we Americans started dynoing the cars and found that some produced less HP than expected and that the cars weren't tuned all that well despite the original tuning being done by Roush. Once the unlock codes were made "public", remapped ECUs have shown much greater power with better drivability.
13. The performance difference between the NSX and Noble resulted in me upgrading the NSX twice.
14. For those of you have seen my Noble at XPO, the car now is by far faster. Still waiting to see if my FI NSX is equal in power as well as track performance.
15. Any questions, PM me.

Wish I could go to see your car at XPO!!!:frown:

 

[ediddynsx]

Thats a nice looking car....I'd rock one.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

That place is literally 20 min. from my house. I'll have to go check it out. I don't know what the hell all this "1G racing" is.... but their built at a place called superformance. www.superformance.com
They build replica 427 Cobras and GT40's. If you look at the address they're the same. Personally... I'd rather have one of those GT40's.

 

[Juice]

I can personally attest to why I haven't left the NSX club to purchase a M12 - no trunk space!!!

Jorligan - still haven't ridden in your Noble. It was fun following you to NY, but you really do owe me a ride in your toy. Are you bringing it to NSXPO in Columbus this year? I would guess you are more likely to bring your NSX this year. Regardless, you owe me a ride! :wink:

 

[jorligan]

Juice,
come on up and a ride is readily available. It is now significantly faster than it was on the way to NY. Spins all the way to 4th gear. Hope to have the NSX at XPO this year but I should be there regardless. How's your car?

Lastly, Noble is out of the US market since 1g racing was the sole importer. It looks like the "Rossion" is a slightly restyled m400.

 

[isellpower]

Hopefully the new car is much better than the old Noble. I don't think I've heard one good thing about reliability. Guy on Viperclub had one for about 2 months and then tried to dump it off. Most that have owned them say that they are pure junk.

 

[Steven Allen]

I consider NSX owners to be fairly knowledgeable when it comes to cars. I have yet to see the "I sold my NSX for a Noble" thread.

Small network or not, I'm a little surprised. All the stats on paper make this a pretty logical next step from our cars. Are they unsafe by any means? (commenting on their ability to avoid crash tests by not coming with engines)

Can you license them easily in every state? Is there a "noble" forum? I'd like to learn more about these cars.

The title of this thread is "yet another competitor"...but I'm not sure that this car really is one. i.e. I haven't seen anyone jump ship yet, and it's been out for awhile.

That's is how I purchased my NSX last week. John from Baravian motors is building one.

 

[jorligan]

Funny but no one that I know of have mentioned that they are junk and the reliability has actually been pretty good, Better than my 2001 M3. In the end, it all depends on the installer, some were good, some just "disappeared." there were some installed by individuals who really didn't know what they were doing so there were issues and then they spouted off how the design was faulty, sound familiar? So someone doesn't just think that ours is new, we have #49 in the country.

 

[jkeen01]

This is pretty much what the HSC should have been...

I second that. When I first saw this car, the NSX was the first thing I thought of. I don't care for the spoiler, but here's a picture of the car sans spoiler:

The thing really looks like a cross between a Ferrari and an NSX, but really retains much of the NSX shape. And the performance figures are unreal. All for $90K. Honda could have done a car like this up a bit more and sold for $120-150K. Great looking car, mid-engine, awesome performance. Reliability is the only question mark, but maybe if Honda screws up the NSX replacement (which seems to be the direction they're heading), maybe this is where you look instead. LOVE. THIS. CAR!!!