Winter Tires

[Eric5273]

I'm considering getting winter tires for my NSX as its my daily driver and I would like to continue to drive it through the New York winters here. I don't intend to drive in 2 feet of snow, but I need to be able to get home through an inch or two of snow if it starts snowing while I'm at work.

Yesterday there was about 2 inches of snow on the ground when I was ready to leave work and there was no way I was going to be able to drive with the stock tires, so I just left the car there and got a ride with someone.

I was looking at the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22. They come in the stock sizes of my '03. I would prefer to avoid spending the extra money of getting a 2nd set of wheels if it's not absolutely necessary. I figured I could just get this set mounted and balanced on my stock wheels and then have the summer tires put back on in the Spring.

Does anyone have any recommendations or experience with winter tires on the NSX?

 

[canuck]

I have the Michelin Pilot Alpins on my wife's Odyssey and they are great. Quiet with very good traction on snow/slush.

I just drove a new Acura TL 6 speed with the Blizzak LM22's on it and they are a bit noisier than the Michelins. No snow to try them out on yet, but tread is very aggressive for a snow tire. Should be quite good in the white stuff.

 

[NSX2398]

My NSX is my daily driver and I'm on my third winter with Michelin Arctic Alpins. I regularly drive in snow that's 2-3" deep (as you can tell by my avatar picture) and personally I don't think it matters a whole lot what brand of winter tires you buy ...just that you have them. I have seen articles where a variety of brands were tested and I know that some are better in snow whereas other brands are better in ice. Blizzaks were one of the earlier winter tires brands and I think the rubber compound is softer than most so wears more quickly but if you're using them just in the winter, I probably doesn't matter a whole lot. I've probably got about 7-8000 miles on my set and you can hardly tell them from new.

I have a '91 and actually had them mount 60 series instead of the stock 50 series to get the extra 3/4 inch of ground clearance but you have to do all four wheels otherwise the TCS gets upset. For the first winter, I just had them mounted on my normal rims but for the second winter I bought a second set of OEM rims which makes it easier to change over for that first unexpected snowfall of the season. You can often buy a set of '91-94 OEM rims for pretty cheap (around $200) on eBay or Prime because most people want the newer style or after market.

I'm no expert but I've been told that it's quite difficult to mount/re-mount low profile tires and that they and the rims can take quite a bit of abuse so I'd certainly recommend talking to and using a top end tire establishment not the local corner garage.

After the first winter, I wrote about some of my experiences here:
http://www.nsxsc.com/html/body_article27.html
I don't really have too much to add since then other than I've now got an add'l 1 1/2 winters of experience and wouldn't really change any of my comments. I've driven the car for 5 1/2 hours at -36 without a problem .. also at 60 MPH on roads that were so slippery that the ABS would come on instantly if I so much as tapped the brakes.

In all this time, I've only had two things fail that may have been winter related .. one was a plastic radiator drain/bleed plug and the other was that my OEM CD changer quit working but that may have just been from old age. I've inspected the car while on a lift and the only rusting I found was under the battery and since the car didn't come with the OEM battery, it may have been more a case of leaking battery acid than rust.

Hope that helps. I still think that my NSX with winter tires has better traction in winter that any car I've ever driven in 35 years (although I don't have any experience with 4WD).

 

[nsxtasy]

Just to add a few comments...

First, winter tires tend to fall into two broad categories:

a) tires that are designed to have the absolute best traction on ice and snow, whose ride may be so-so when the temperatures warm up and the roads are dry. These include the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 and the Michelin Arctic Alpin.

b) tires that are designed to be good on ice and snow - not as good as those above, but still good - but with better ride characteristics when the temperatures warm up. These include the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 and the Michelin Pilot Alpin. These tend to be somewhat more expensive than those in category (a).

Choose the ones that meet your needs best. Where winters are harsh and/or you must get somewhere in your car, (a) may be better; where winters are milder and you have alternative transportation, (b) may fit your needs better.

Obviously, beware the similarities in the names of some of these tires (and don't refer to "Blizzaks" when there are several different tires with that name). All four of the above mentioned models of winter tires are excellent, and through the end of the month, there is a $40 rebate on a set of 4 Michelin winter tires. The Tire Rack website has good comparison tests of tires, and their people can help you select the tires that are best for your needs. Their prices are great, and you can have them ship tires to an installer in your area. I don't work for the Tire Rack, but they sure know their stuff and they make it easy for you.

I recommend getting an extra set of wheels for your winter tires, so you can have them mounted and balanced once, and not worry about it after that. Where I live, mounting/balancing costs have skyrocketed, and it costs $120 to have a set of tires mounted. I sure wouldn't want to have to pay that twice a year.

As for wheels, those with the '91-96 NSX are lucky because you can get a set of the stock '91-93 wheels cheap, and they are fine. Unfortunately for Eric, the '91-93 wheels won't fit the '97 or later NSX (the calipers are larger and they won't clear) so that's not an option. I would suggest asking the folks at the Tire Rack whether they sell inexpensive (albeit ugly) steel wheels that fit the NSX, like they do for so many other cars. If so, that may be your best bet - and you can buy the wheels and tires as a package, so they come already mounted and balanced at no extra charge.

Little known fact: Winter tires are not just for snow and ice, but also for frigid temperatures. Every tire has an optimal temperature operating range. Winter tires are designed to be used in the coldest temperatures. When it's really cold out, winter tires will stick better than other tires, even when the pavement is dry.

As for personal experience, I don't drive my NSX in the winter here in Chicago, but I have two Integras for winter driving, one with Bridgestone Blizzak MZ-02 tires, which are the predecessor of the WS-50, and the other with Michelin Arctic Alpin tires. Both are simply excellent.

 

[Eric5273]

Thanks for the replys. I think I will call Tire Rack and see if they have a cheap set of wheels to go with the tires. The only thing that worries me is that when I used the winter tire search at their website, it produced this answer:

"Due to the unique technical aspects of this application, we are currently not accepting online orders for snow-tire and wheel packages for your 2003 Acura NSX . Please call (888) 541-1777 to speak with one of our specialists about available products"

I guess I'll have to give them a call and see what they say. However, I checked and the Blizzak LM-22 does come in the stock tires sizes for my car. I wonder what the problem is then.

 

[Eric5273]

Ok........I just spoke to Tire Rack. Here is the problem:

They don't carry a cheap wheel for snow tires that fits the NSX. The cheapest 17" wheel they have for the NSX is a SSR wheel that is around $375 per wheel. So if I want to get the snow tires, I will have to mount & balance tires twice each year and use the stock wheels.

So I called up Greenwich Acura and asked them about it. They said they have a $9000 balancing machine made for the low profile tires and they would guarantee no damage to the wheels or else they would replace them. However, this comes at a cost -- $200 to mount and balance 4 tires. So I think I'm going to do it. At this point, I can't afford to spend another $2200 (wheels & tires) on this car, but I would really like to have the snow tires.

Any thoughts?

 

[kgb_agent]

You have enough $$ for an '03 NSX but not for a 4x4 to get you through a NY winter???

 

[RPM217]

Thoughts

Ok........I just spoke to Tire Rack. Here is the problem:

They don't carry a cheap wheel for snow tires that fits the NSX. The cheapest 17" wheel they have for the NSX is a SSR wheel that is around $375 per wheel. So if I want to get the snow tires, I will have to mount & balance tires twice each year and use the stock wheels.

So I called up Greenwich Acura and asked them about it. They said they have a $9000 balancing machine made for the low profile tires and they would guarantee no damage to the wheels or else they would replace them. However, this comes at a cost -- $200 to mount and balance 4 tires. So I think I'm going to do it. At this point, I can't afford to spend another $2200 (wheels & tires) on this car, but I would really like to have the snow tires.

Any thoughts?

I too have a yellow 2002 NSX and had Greenwich mount and balance my new rear tires, and will have them mount and balance the fronts (which now need replacing too) when I get them. For now, the car is in the garage, under the cover, clean and snug, and I'm driving my beater (1997 subaru GT wagon with 90,000 miles and still going strong). If you do the math, and keep the car for at least 3 winters, mount/dismount = 400/p/yr x 3=$1,200, the wheel package from tire rack is almost a wash. Factor in the fact that you'll probably save a set of tires in the deal, and the potential damage to the wheels over time, and perhaps to the tires during mount/dismount and you're better off getting the wheels with tires mounted and balanced shipped to you, ready to go. Remember, your traction will be much improved, but with any real accumulation, you won't have the clearance to drive safely. I drive the car in the rain all the time, with the z rated tires and the advice that Ken supplied, you're not safe on the OEM tires. I think that you're better off with the complete package, if you're keeping the car 3 or more years- JMHO

 

[Eric5273]

You have enough $$ for an '03 NSX but not for a 4x4 to get you through a NY winter???

I really don't have enough $$ for either. I'm leasing the NSX under that special lease plan that was offered last summer.

It's my daily driver and I don't own another car. I've gotten through winters with sports cars for years without ever getting snow tires. I just get rides from friends or take taxis when it snows, which is usually only 5 or 6 times each winter. However, last winter was really bad and this winter looks to be the same, so I figured I would invest in some snow tires. They are not a necessity but would be a convenience.

 

[RPM217]

Just remember Ken's advice

It's not just the snow, at temps below freezing the tires never quite get up to proper temps. also check your tire pressure more often. If there's ice on the road watch out. On Friday, one of my associates said that he saw a silver NSX that got smashed up on Purchase Street (right around the corner from my office). I don't know who's it is, sure hope nobody from Prime.

 

[thedon67]

Eric,

I just put Blizzack WS-50s on my '03 accord and love them. Was up in Lake Placid Thanksgiving weekend and had no trouble (we had a snow storm up there). Tires also worked great this weekend with the Noreaster.

Would you be interested in a set of 97+ style wheels? I'm buying a set of SSR integrals from somebody else on the board (betting them next weekend) and was planning on selling my rims/tires. The rims are in pretty good shape but do have a few scratches. Perfect for winter driving!

Also my local tire guy is pretty competitive with Tire Rack so I could look into having them mounted down here for you too.

PM me if you are interested.

Don

 

[Eric5273]

I ordered the tires from Tire Rack a few minutes ago. I think I'm just going to stick with the stock wheels. I don't mind paying to mount and balance as long as there is no damage to the wheels, and Greenwich Acura has assured me they will guarantee no damage.

Actually, the mounting and balancing is really my only cost. The tires pay for themselves since they will allow my summer tires to last longer.

 

[nsxtasy]

My advice (now that we know Tire Rack doesn't offer cheap steel wheels): Buy a set of used '94-01 wheels (from the Don or from someone else). Ones that are not perfect might cost anywhere from $1000 to $1500. The thing to remember is, when it comes time that you decide to sell your car (or turn it in at the end of the lease), you ought to be able to resell them and get pretty close to what you paid for them.

I really, really, really hate the idea of paying $200 to get a set of tires mounted. (Actually, I really, really, really hate the idea of paying $120 to get a set mounted, which is what they charge around here - despite the fact that it takes well under an hour and hourly labor rates are $70-90 at most places.) Doing it twice a year seems excessive, especially when there are other alternatives.

So... you can buy a set of wheels, and sell them at the end of your lease (3-year lease, I assume) and maybe lose $200 on the set, or you can spend $400 per year for the two swaps at the start and end of winter. Your money, your choice.

P.S. Even the least experienced NSX owner should be able to change wheels himself, if the tires are already mounted on them. Even with the NSX stock jack. Although use of a torque wrench like the $30 one from the Tire Rack is recommended. Add a 19 mm socket and extension, both $10 or so at Sears.

 

[NSX2398]

Re: Thoughts

but with any real accumulation, you won't have the clearance to drive safely.

While I'm certainly not suggesting that putting winter tires on an NSX is going to immediately turn it into an SUV, I think most people would be surprised to find that the factory ground clearance specs on an NSX are equal to or better than many cars.. I know it's better than my wife's Acura 1.6EL which is the Canadian Acura equivalent of a Honda 4-door Civic and if I recall, it's over 4 inches and I think the front lip clearance is around 5".

It's not just the snow, at temps below freezing the tires never quite get up to proper temps

Guys .. when we're talking about winter tires, I hope you're not thinking that you can drive through drifts one day and track it the next! I think we're talking about someone who just wants to get home. Once I put my tires on in the fall, they don't get up to "proper temps" again until the spring!! .. and I sure can't tell the difference between -5 and -35.

when it comes time that you decide to sell your car .. you ought to be able to resell them and get pretty close to what you paid for them

I think Ken has a good point here although it sounds like you might be strapped for cash .. maybe you should try it for one winter and see if it's what you expected.

If you do go ahead, I'd highly recommend you read the fine print on the lease regarding end of lease 'wear and tear', especially about stone chips to the front. I suspect buying a bra would be a very cost effective investment if they sand the roads a lot there in the winter.

 

[Arshad]

A side question as I'm still driving my NSX at the moment as well. I just got Volk LE37T wheels on my car, and I'm wondering about salt. Is this going to be an issue with these wheels w/ polished lip? I'm not driving in snow, but it did snow last week and although the roads are clear, there's still salt 'dust' on the roads. Is regular washing of the car good enough? I do plan on putting the car away for the winter in the next couple of weeks.

NSX2398: Do they use salt or sand up where you are?

 

[NSX-Racer]

Little advice from my own experience: Even with good snow tires you'll have problems with the X if you have stiffened the suspension (sway bars, Bilsteins etc.). The car then tends more to follow snow- and ice traces, sometimes you may not be able to drive a straight line and the rear makes astonishing left-right-swings. I had some dangerous situations with that behaviour on snowy german autobahns even at very low speeds.

OTOH: The very good traction of the car is nearly not reduced - you would climb snowy hills much better than many other cars.

 

[Eric5273]

The $1000-1500 price range is not cheap enough to push me to buy these wheels now. The brand new SSR wheels which Tire Rack had were around $1500 and that was in the 2003 stock sizes (17's in front, not 16s). I already ordered the tires in 17s both front and rear. I'm going to pay the $200 this time to have them mounted & balanced as I don't have the money at the moment to buy another set of wheels, but I may consider doing that next year....I'll have to see.

I'll post what the results are after the first time it snows. I'm having them put on the car next wednesday.

 

[nsxtasy]

The $1000-1500 price range is not cheap enough to push me to buy these wheels now. The brand new SSR wheels which Tire Rack had were around $1500 and that was in the 2003 stock sizes (17's in front, not 16s).

The reason I suggested the used stock wheels instead of new wheels is that you will be able to get almost all of your money back by re-selling the used stock wheels. Selling used aftermarket wheels is very difficult and you would be very lucky to get as much as half of the original cost. If you like the looks of the SSR better and you don't mind the decrease in value if you re-sell them, then go for it. (But I wouldn't worry too much about the looks for the wheels you use for winter tires. Just my personal preference, I figure they're going to get full of salt and slush anyway.)

Also, don't get hung up on the wheel size. Remember, we're talking about winter tires here. You're not going to take them on the track, and the extremely minor differences in handling between a 16" and a 17" front are irrelevant when you're on winter tires.

If you don't want to spend the money now, obviously paying them to change the tires requires less initial investment. But it's worth adding up the costs over however long you plan to keep the car, just to help you make your decision.

 

[NSX2398]

NSX2398: Do they use salt or sand up where you are?

Salt only works at temps close to freezing and most of the winter here is much colder so they use more sand than salt. The guys from Ontario could probably offer more advice since they see a lot of salt there.

I've done lots of extended road trips in the winter where my black car was almost grey from the salt by the end. I also park my car in a heated garage at work so any accumulated snow/salt melts and tries to eat away at the car 5 days a week and I have yet to have a problem on the body in 3 winters. Remember that most of the car's body and suspension is aluminum and it isn't affected by salt so don't worry about a little salt 'dust' on your car. However, I don't have any experience with aftermarket wheels.

I wash my car by hand summer and winter but in the winter only about every 3 weeks.