Will someone from Acura step up here ?

[Tom Larkins]

After reading and participating on the debate past & present that have been beat to death about a hopeful and improved 2nd gen NSX. Would someone from Acura involved w/the NSX ever submit to an interview for us or the NSXCA. In short, give us some answers. Is it worth trying ? Heck, most of us want to know something other that what bits & pieces a published in mags.

 

[nsxtasy]

While I am not in marketing, I know that people in marketing (which includes product planning) generally come up with a strategy for rolling out a new product. It includes a publicity strategy for where, and when, information about the new product is made available to the public.

Honda has always rigorously followed a very deliberate approach in which information is provided to all avenues at the same time - all of the media and news outlets are informed via a press release and accompanying photos. They are not in the habit of giving one group an "insider scoop", if you will. I can only guess that they follow this approach in order to maximize the exposure when the time comes that they are willing to make the information public.

For this reason, I would not be optimistic about them telling us (either through NSXprime or the NSX Club or the club's NSX Driver newsletter) anything before they told the car mags and the news media.

I am not speaking on behalf of American Honda here (I have no such relationship with them). And I have no "inside information" of my own, other than my personal observations of how they have conducted business over the past 15-20 years. This is simply my best, realistic guess regarding the prospects of such an eventuality occurring, based on my experience as an outsider.

If it's any consolation, my impression is that their dealers ask the same thing and get treated the exact same way; IOW, they don't find out any sooner than anyone else, either.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 26 October 2002).]

 

[Jonathan]

While I don't mean to compare what I do to what Honda/Acura does specifically, I work in marketing for consumer electronics.

Among the things Ken points out, there are always problems with letting information out early, building expectations on specifications, release dates, etc. Projects slip, and specs change through development, and when information gets out early and then changes, you not only lose hype around the launch you risk changes coming up that can really disappoint.

In the companies I have worked for, we have always carefully guarded upcoming product launches, for competitive reasons and protection against any consumer backlash.

I would expect Honda/Acura to leak a small bit of information when their plans were fixed though and that would be something like "Look for an all new NSX within the next two years" just to get a buzz going. I would not expect any details or specific time frames to accompany that.

[This message has been edited by Jonathan (edited 26 October 2002).]

 

[docjohn]

Acura is well aware of what we want.Back in 97 they were doing on camera interviews with folks who attended a pr event at Lyndhurst estate and I spent 10 min telling them there would be a market for a v-8.

 

[NeoNSX]

i don't work for acura/honda (dream job though) but i reckon a 2nd gen NSX with hybrid fuel technology would be sweet... definitely a the right step for a "futuristic supercar".


...or v-8 would be nice too.

 

[Zanardi 50]

I've just read a brief article from 11/10/02 issue of BESTCAR which speculates that the next gen NSX will be powered by a V-8 engine (didn't mention displacement)AND Integrated Motor Assist (electrical motor). Imagine if you will: 450+HP from the V-8 PLUS ~100HP from the electrical motor = 550-600BHP! Holy $*!# ! And on top of that the car would likely run 40-50 highway miles per gallon (MY speculation)! But according to the same car rag, this NSX is, at the very least, 3 years from its public debut. Until then, the concept version will most likely be ready by next year's Tokyo Motor Show, in order to gauge public interests and feedbacks on Honda's initial styling and choice of powerplant that will eventually pave the way to final production version.
So, could this speculation by BESTCAR be true? Only time will tell.

[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 10 November 2002).]

 

[NeoNSX]

sounds sweet... best of both worlds: V8 + Electric Motor.

though SERIOUSLY i doubt the speculation on the V8.

The reason for my doubts are 1) how many times have we all heard the NSX will go V8, 2) Honda's motto seems to be "practical and efficient" and a V8 engine is not efficient by Japanese standards, and 3) coz i have long given up hope.

I Vote [1] to a more modernized NSX (with or w/o V8) with minimal cosmetic changes.

 

[NSX/MR2]

Something gotta give, it will be a great car when it come out.

 

[Barn Man]

I personaly think along the same lines as Ken. Momma Honda has always, (just like other car lines), kept things under wraps until they have everything in place for a debut. Momma Honda has always been VERY conservative. They could have put a V-10 in the NSX if they wanted to. Although it would have seriously changed the drivability of the car from the standpoint of taking trips, carrying luggage, and being able to carry golf clubs. They want the car to appeal to a wide range of people. Limiting the useability of the car would limit their market greatly.

I also think putting a hybrid powerplant would be a bad decision. Sure the gas mileage would be sweet. But imagine the beating the NSX would take from the press for the change. I can hear it now. Honda couldn't do it with just motor. B.S. Honda is by far the best motor builder in the world. There is no other. They just need to show the world their teeth a little instead of a smuggish grin. Honda could easily put the most reliable and powerful engine in the world. But, I fear that a hybrid may be the direction they are going. The press will eat them alive. ESPECIAlly the american market.
You'll never see a Vette with a hybrid in it. I'd rather have the current V-6 than a hybrid V-8 that takes a verbal beating.
Barn Man....

 

[scottjua]

remember what happened to the XJ220?

Still I wish we could knwo something...anything.

 

[wilsonp]

Originally posted by Barn Man:
I also think putting a hybrid powerplant would be a bad decision. Sure the gas mileage would be sweet. But imagine the beating the NSX would take from the press for the change.
Barn Man....

I don't think the press would complain if it can beat the performance of the 360 or Z06, even. But I think the battery weight would totally ruin the dynamics on top of a V8 - unless they make some type of composite/ceramic V8?

 

[Jimbo]

Of course, if you drive a hybrid aggressively, let's say like on a track, the battery will run down in no time flat. And then you're lugging around dead weight.

Hybrids for street and sporty cars (like the DN-X sports sedan) are one thing. Hybrids for sports cars that may be seeing track time are another.

Although, I guess you could have an 1 early track session of a few hot laps for everyone and then everyone could cruise at a constant speed of 40 MPH for the remainder of the day in order to recharge their batteries for a few more hot laps at the end of the day.

Hybrids and true sports cars are mutually incompatible at the current time and for the foreseeable future.

Honda could still quite easily breathe new life into the NSX with a 400 HP forced induction 3.5 i-VTEC, however.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 12 November 2002).]

 

[wilsonp]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
Of course, if you drive a hybrid aggressively, let's say like on a track, the battery will run down in no time flat. And then you're lugging around dead weight.

Why would they run down? I thought systems like IMA charge when you brake? Even with entropy, if IMA only works at WOT I would guess that you brake a lot more than you accelerate wide open on a typical track? Maybe the problem would be what to do with all the excess power!

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
I guess you could have an 1 early track session of a few hot laps for everyone and then everyone could cruise at a constant speed of 40 MPH for the remainder of the day in order to recharge their batteries for a few more hot laps at the end of the day.

If you had a hybrid car with, say, 350 hp from a gasoline engine and 100 hp from electric power, even when the batteries run down, you would still have 350 horses to play with - certainly enough to go more than 40 mph.

Regardless, though, I don't think we can pre-judge what Honda is up to until we see the results. If it's supposed to be a sports car, it will have to have awesome performance on the racetrack. If it doesn't have awesome performance on the track, then most of those hoping for a high-performance sports car will be disappointed. Honda already knows this. Let's wait and see what they give us, rather than pre-judging (like those in the 1980s who said that the Japanese were only capable of making good subcompact cars).

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 12 November 2002).]

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by wilsonp:
Why would they run down? I thought systems like IMA charge when you brake?

IMA and similar systems that use regenerative braking to charge the batteries can only use a little braking energy at a time. If you brake lightly, they can capture much of the energy. If you brake hard, they can only capture a tiny fraction of the energy and the rest is lost as heat. Obviously this does not work very well at the track.

 

[Jimbo]

I'm not sure what happened to my answer to wilsonp, but Lud has captured some of my thoughts and comments.

I wrote my earlier post to explain that hybrid systems can charge upon braking somewhat but that most of the braking energy is dissipated as heat. There's so much energy generated during braking that only a small portion is able to be funneled back into the batteries. It's a chemistry/physics thing. I guess it's the same thing why I can't plug my laptop into a 120V outlet and have it recharge in a few seconds.

Most of the recharging that's done by a hybrid, like Honda's Insight, is done during steady-state driving (or by driving down hills) over a long period of time. Once you've depleted the batteries with aggressive driving, then you're running solely on the gas engine. Of course, at this time you're lugging the dead weight of the batteries and motors around the track with you. This was the basis for my original comment on 1 early track session and then crusing at a constant speed.

Of course, no one knows what Honda will come up with, but we have heard that they intend to produce something like the DN-X show car. A 4-door sports sedan might be a perfectly reasonable hybrid. You could get on it every so often on the street - deplete the batteries, and then recharge the batteries during normal driving. It would kind of be like nitrous bottle that would automatically recharge itself over time.

The percentage of people who track their car (even NSX owners) is small indeed, so perhaps the track performance of a 4-door sporty sedan isn't important to Honda. A hybrid NSX (or a S2000) would be a different thing entirely and for the above reasoning, I just don't see Honda going that route.

It is fun, and harmless, to speculate or pre-judge what Honda may or may not be up to. Honda's has always been a design and engineering leader and perhaps they will surprise us. I just don't think it's likely that they'll rewrite physical laws.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html