wider tires for stock rims?? help on high speed braking and corner exit speed.

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23 July 2003
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Seattle, WA.
Couple days ago, I was at the "home" track for the fifth time this summer.
here's what I have stock 15/16 rims with Kumho MX, all looks like having pretty good tread height whereas the right rear slightly worn with the shoulders being a little bald... I've been told on the dry track, I still have a lot of miles ahead of me before I "need" to buy for new ones.
I had swapped the front pads to the carbotech pather+, however kept the rears axxis (my street set up), the set up was always brilliant... even when I did the bed-in the previous night. On track, the car felt very slippery, seems like the back end always pushing the car at the high speed braking, (ABS kicking in while the car doesn't really feel stopping at all).
I found out that my tire pressure is a little high the first session, and I was carrying my buddy who is around 190 lbs. At the last session, I corrected the tire pressure back to 32 / 35 hot. and decided to go solo, this time the car feel brilliant again. but the feeling (though much better now)of running out of pads (which, in reality both pads still have a lot in it) still there at the high speed braking (140 to 65-70 in 3 cones.)

I was suspecting since I used the axxis pads at the rear end both on/off track, while I only put on the panther pads just for the track use. Maybe the rear pads are thinner thus less stopping power; but once I thought thru how the brakes work, it should not be any problem. One thing though, I was doing my spraying and sponge 5 mins car wash before i hit the track, and I did spray water directly to the wheels and rotors/calipers, I lot of brake dust run out to the pavement. Does this action basically destroying all the uniformed deposit I put on at the bed-in?? :o by the way, my brake was beded in two nights before, and it got more than 30 hours sitting in my garage to 'cool down'....

anyway, except for a little frustration at the straightaway braking, I was doing quite happy with the car. Except there was the time a S4 driver (I believed it got engine mod) refused letting me by for 5-6 laps. It was a little frustrating, I could brake deeper, and carry more speed going into any corner than him, but I was force to brake early and not "pushing" him. His car highest speed at the end of the straightaway is at least 20mphs slower than what I could do. However since I decided not to sticking my front bumper into his, everytime he was walking away as soon as he past the apex cone, I tried and tried, everytime I caught up with him, it was either blocked by some other slower cars or closed to the end of the passing zone and of course, he would not back up and give me the pointer.

That brought me to the question that if I needed better tires and/or wider tires (if there's any other size fit the stock rims.?) I am quite confident I was riding the edge of the tires traction in couple tight corners, and the car usually exhibit a little over steer in a very smooth fashion and I was being able to correcting it with no drama... but just seeing that 3800lbs car keep walking away from me at the exit of the corner made me :o
 
NSXDreamer2 said:
Does this action basically destroying all the uniformed deposit I put on at the bed-in??
No.

NSXDreamer2 said:
That brought me to the question that if I needed better tires and/or wider tires (if there's any other size fit the stock rims.?)
I would suggest you get a set of R compound tires. If these are your only rims, get an extra set to mount them on. Sets of used '91-93 stock rims are inexpensive, often changing hands for as little as $200. Most R compound tires are available in the stock '91-93 sizes, and you can fit the tires inside the car and drive to the track on your street tires. R compound tires, just like street tires, vary in terms of cost, dry traction, wet traction, treadlife, etc. One excellent all-around R compound tire worth considering is the Toyo Proxes RA-1. Click here for links to some dealers that carry them.

NSXDreamer2 said:
just seeing that 3800lbs car keep walking away from me at the exit of the corner made me :o
No offense to you, but differences in driver skill are usually far greater than differences in car capabilities. Don't get discouraged; just keep working on improving your skills, as well as the capabilities of your car. But there will always be someone quicker than you (or any of us), and a quicker driver in a slower car can usually turn faster laps than a slower driver in a quicker car.

Good luck.
 
NSXDreamer2 said:
anyway, except for a little frustration at the straightaway braking, I was doing quite happy with the car. Except there was the time a S4 driver (I believed it got engine mod) refused letting me by for 5-6 laps. It was a little frustrating, I could brake deeper, and carry more speed going into any corner than him, but I was force to brake early and not "pushing" him. His car highest speed at the end of the straightaway is at least 20mphs slower than what I could do. However since I decided not to sticking my front bumper into his, everytime he was walking away as soon as he past the apex cone, I tried and tried, everytime I caught up with him, it was either blocked by some other slower cars or closed to the end of the passing zone and of course, he would not back up and give me the pointer.

In this type of situation, I would just pit in and put some space. When you get frustrated like this, you tend to over-drive your car. When you over-drive your car, it leads to bad things.
 
Ken, my car and my skill is well over the S4, after he finally let me by, he disappear from me and I beleived he's at least 5 cars behind me when we pit in... :)
Your R tire recommendation is just what I need!! I do have 2 sets of extra rims and a brand new Toyo RA1. I was waiting my skill building up and totally wasting the Kumho MX I have. My concern is that if the Toyo RA1 being very hard to tell it's losing grip? I was able to catch the rear movement before I can hear the tire scream and made adjustment. (maybe my exhaust's too loud :) )

ak, my passenger would confirmed you that at the time my face was even more dramatic than your avatar ... LOL. You know that's always a good advise when you just get out of the traffic by pitting in, but I guess I was just putting myself in a little battle on how well to keep up with the Quattro's mid corner ability...
 
Stick with the stock size tires on the stock wheels. Going wider on the stock wheels will very likely cause some irregular handling traits if you haven't planned properly. I like Ken's suggestion of going R compound with the stock "not really that heavy" '91-'93 wheels. They'll help in acceleration, cornering, and more importantly in your case, braking. I'm not a big fan of having different brake compounds front and rear w/o a LOT of setup testing. There a number of excellent pads (Cobalt, Carbotech, etc) to choose from.
 
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