Why is the Porsche Cayman better then the NSX

[jadkar]

Hey, I haven't been around this forum lately, so I figured I'll babble a little. During my absence something has bothered me and I'm not sure if it has been discussed before......

Why is it that many so called "automobile enthusiasts" are so quick to point out the few flaws with the NSX lately? People complain about the lack of power, price of the car, etc. BUT, the Porsche Cayman shows up with just about the same power, weight, and general performance characteristics and it is hailed as the almighty savior. I just don't get it! The car makes a little more power, but it does so with a 3.4, it has no targa, and it’s ugly. I mean come on you mean to tell me it took Porsche 16 years to come up with a car on par (or ever so slightly better) then our NSX and they get mad props for it. Am I the only one who thinks this???

I was just prompted to bring this up because I work with avid P-car dude. He owns a 2000 Boxster S, which gets spanked just about every other day by a certain black 1998 NSX About 2 weeks ago he comes rolling in talking smack about the Cayman, as if Porsche just developed cold fusion or something. He asked me what I thought about the car. I told him I think it's OK, but I don't like the styling and personally I think the performance is something that has been done before....like back in 1997!! He looked at me confused. It just blows my mind the lack of respect that the NSX gets, the car should have been so much more successful than it was, but unfortunately so many people have the blinders on. I still believe that if BMW or Porsche had released the NSX instead of Honda the car would have had sensational sales success, and that makes me mad.

Anyway, on that note I'll open up the floor

 

[Cairo94507]

That brought an audible laugh out of me....cold fusion. I too am not impressed with the looks of the alligator or whatever they are calling it. Porsche has really got to get it together when it comes to styling it seems like they make one car look great and the next 2 look poor. A-Team v. B-Team in design?

I still think some people are die-hard Porsche fans, just becasue it is a Porsche. They may be insecure and are the ones seen walking around in Porsche jackets, hats, ties, they have a Porsche license plate frame on their P car, etc...

I have not seen a Cayman in person, but when I do I will have a better idea of how it really looks in the flesh, so to speak. But from the magazine photos, I would pass. I especially think the front bumper/driving lights do not fit the car.

 

[satan_srv]

Personally I like the design as I don't like the 911. I love the NSX but the cayman has a lot of potential:
- More torque/HP (close to 3.2L)
- More out of the box performance stuff avail (isn't this an old 3.4 they've used before?)
- The Boxster S was already kicking the 911's (325hp) butt the tracks and now this one has more power and more rigidity, better suspension etc.
- Cheaper than an NSX, and it's a Porsche..go figure.

I respect the car, I think it's a pretty cool little package. I'm not saying it's anything new, but it comes down to marketing..at least Porsche can push a car such that your p-car putz buddies think it's the holy grail of MR! But yes I still love the NSX for the all-aluminum chassis and of course, styling.

 

[Klayton]

Because its a Porsche...

 

[jadkar]

Because its a Porsche...

Wow, you proved my point.....

Tanga!!

 

[TTony]

I still do not understand why it is $10k more than a Boxster? With starting prices at about $60k, an optioned out Cayman will be in the NSX price range. Porsche options are unbelievably expensive.

It's redline is only 7k (advantage: NSX)

Weighing 5 kg more than its roadster sibling at 1430 kg, official claims put 0-100 kmh acceleration at 5.4 seconds. This is the "S" model also and other sources have put it at 5.1 seconds. (Regardless... advantage: NSX) (note: it weighs MORE than the Boxster )

Looks... subjective but since this is NSX Prime... (advantage: NSX)


Here's a sight an NSX owner won't be seeing anytime soon... the Porsche running away with its tailpipes between its legs. :tongue:

 

[NSX-Racer]

For bragging rights: The cayman has done significantly better laptimes than the NSX on Nuerburgring Nordschleife and Hockenheim GP (it even tops the 996 according to Porsche driver flagship Walter Roehrl).

 

[jadkar]

For bragging rights: The cayman has done significantly better laptimes than the NSX on Nuerburgring Nordschleife and Hockenheim GP (it even tops the 996 according to Porsche driver flagship Walter Roehrl).

Well, if we want to compare up-to-date technology then how did it do on the ring compared to the NSX-R ??(just curious since you didn't list numbers)

 

[TTony]

Well, if we want to compare up-to-date technology then how did it do on the ring compared to the NSX-R ??(just curious since you didn't list numbers)

I don't think the Cayman S compares cost wise to the NSX-R (we can't buy them anyway in the USA...)

The Cayman (prototypes) did the 'ring in 8min, 11 sec. (faster than the current 911). Here are some times with a grain of salt...

7:32 - Porsche Carrera GT (7:32.44)
7:44 - Zonda
7:46 - Porsche 996 GT2
7:47 - Porsche Gt3 RS (sport tyres)
7:50 - M3 CSL (sport tyres)
7:52 - GT3 (381hp)
7:52 - Lamborghini Gallardo
7:52 - Lamborghini Murcielao
7:52 - Mercedes SLR mclaren
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 - 360 stradale (sport tyres)
7:57 - Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo (600 HP, racing suspension)
8:07 - Ferrari 550
8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV
8:09 - Ferrari 360 Modena
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS
8:11 - Porsche Cayman
8:12 - Porsche 993 Turbo (430 HP version)
8:15 - BMW Z8 400 HP
8:17 - Porsche 996 C2
8:18 - Ferrari F355
8:22 - BMW M Coupe 321 HP
8:25 - Audi RS4 375 HP
8:28 - Porsche 993 C2
8:28 - BMW M5 400 HP
8:32 - Porsche Boxster S
8:35 - BMW M3 Coupe 321 HP
8:37 - Mercedes C32 AMG
8:38 - Honda NSX
8:39 - Honda S2000
8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette
8:42 - Audi S4 265 HP
8:42 - Lotus Exige
8:49 - Jaguar XKR Coupe
8:52 - Mercedes CLK 430

 

[jadkar]

Unfortunately, there is no NSX-R on that list, however I know that's it's better than what they have listed for the Cayman. Also...WTF they list the NSX as only 1 second better than the S2000

 

[TTony]

Unfortunately, there is no NSX-R on that list, however I know that's it's better than what they have listed for the Cayman. Also...WTF they list the NSX as only 1 second better than the S2000

with a grain of salt = different weather conditions, different days, different drivers, etc.

they are not scientific down to the second but a 27 second difference is significant. I'm also not sure if the NSX is a 3.0L or a 3.2L.

 

[satan_srv]

7:56 --- Honda NSX-R - Motoharu Kurosawa, Best MOTORing
8:09 --- Honda NSX-R 3.2 (08/2002)



good link
http://www.supercarfreak.net/forum/showthread.php?t=119&page=1&pp=20

 

[nuccaJB]

Ditto on the cold fusion comment, I actually laughed out loud. :biggrin: It is confusing about the S2k and the NSX times, I would not expect them to be so close. One porblem is that the NSX alsways gets bashed by almost everybody. Porsche, vette, viper and ferrari guys all feel some sort of superiorty complex to it. Maybe one reason they all have their panites in a bundle is because the NSX got so much respect when it was introduced and then never got much of a serious improvement. It only had one minor improvement in power and most americans look at the hp and 0-60 figures when they open a car magazine. Like you already posted... its a porsche, and people who really understand cars know that does not always really mean anything. We will have to see when honda brings their new car to the playing field.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

I've seen them porches (911 series) in bits, and to me its nothing more then a VW Golf, in a different shape, at least, nothing like how the NSX is build.
I repaired a climate control unit for one of the porsche guys, and i was absolutely amazed how this was stuck together, looked like 1959 'coup de ville' radio.... suprised there weren't any tubes in it

Actually, for such a high production car, i think THEY are way overpriced.

Its true though, if the NSX was presented by Ferrari in the early 90's, it would have had the status of best Ferrari ever build. Oh and the price would have been much higher then the NSX was, but hey, that would have been a bargain....right?

So what sort of hp rating this Aligator... damn .... Cayman suppose to have?

 

[menuserve]

one major difference... the nsx is as sexy as it gets... the cayenne... urghhh... its not sexy!

 

[Da Hapa]

1. Because most people will consider this car a "new" design (even though the educated know the 987 that it's based on is a refresh of the now old 986).
2. Because it's a Porsche
3. Because it's a Porsche. You get my drift.

While I've always liked the looks of the Boxster and have been tempted twice now by the Boxster S, I don't like the looks of the Cayman at all. The air intakes in the front look tacked on, the side profile is odd and the tail treatment is nothing short of ugly. I'm sure it will drive well, I'm sure it will be popular, and I'm sure that once you get options on the car that you'd really want, it's going to be expensive to buy, expensive to service and expensive to own.

No thanks... I'll keep my "old" 1998 NSX-T that I paid significantly less than the lowest base price I've seen contemplated for the new P-car.

 

[satan_srv]

3.4L Flat 6, 295HP/255TQ 171mph top speed. One thing to note is this is the top of the line cayman..they will introduce lower models as well

 

[NSX-Racer]

with a grain of salt = different weather conditions, different days, different drivers, etc.

they are not scientific down to the second but a 27 second difference is significant. I'm also not sure if the NSX is a 3.0L or a 3.2L.

The NSX tested in 1997 was a 3.2 cp.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

3.4L Flat 6, 295HP/255TQ 171mph top speed.

Thankx, not exactly spectaculair for modern engines. 87HP/Ltr .... , but then, the 3.4 Ltr gives 340 Nm, which is good.

For 102.000 US Dollar (82KE/current rate) you can have one in November here.

 

[nsxtasy]

That's funny, because I haven't heard any great praise for the Cayman among my fellow car buddies, not even the Porschephiles. Their take (and mine) is that it doesn't break any new ground, and is simply a marketing ploy to plug a perceived price gap between the Boxster S and the base 911. Not that it's a bad car, just more along the lines of, "We sell X horsepower for Y dollars, and we also sell A horsepower for B dollars, so we really ought to offer something in between, in power and in price".

 

[NSX-Racer]

I don't think the Cayman S compares cost wise to the NSX-R (we can't buy them anyway in the USA...)

The Cayman (prototypes) did the 'ring in 8min, 11 sec. (faster than the current 911).

Amen to you first sentence (why compare a car that is available with a car that is not available?) - especialy when you think that the NSX-R was tested with some sort of street legal sports tires (RE-70 AFAIR) and the Cayman with "normal" tires in Porsche specification (as nearly always for P-cars).

A big "No" for your second sentence. As I said the cayman was faster than the 996 but that is not the current 911. That is the 997 and this had a 8.05 on the ring.

 

[BioBanker]

What Im not clear on is why the 3.2l cp's time was so sucky. I used to have an S2000 and I currently have my 02 NSX and as good as S2000s are, I perceive a wide margin between the two cars.

 

[NSX-Racer]

Well, if we want to compare up-to-date technology then how did it do on the ring compared to the NSX-R ??

A main feature of a up-to-date-technology car for me is that I can buy it here in Germany and drive it legally on the streets (plus on the track). The NSX-R doesn't have this feature, the Cayman has.

Regarding the performance of the NSX cp. 3.2 back in '97: They complained about the suspension that didn't work well in this rollercoaster, especialy over the cerbs and about the tires (I guess it was the Bridgestone stock version) which worked not as good as these on the S 2000. Although the Nordschleife is a high speed track there are a lot of sections where suspension is more important than sheer power (and 40 HP difference is not that much).

 

[jadkar]

A main feature of a up-to-date-technology car for me is that I can buy it here in Germany and drive it legally on the streets (plus on the track). The NSX-R doesn't have this feature, the Cayman has.

Regarding the performance of the NSX cp. 3.2 back in '97: They complained about the suspension that didn't work well in this rollercoaster, especialy over the cerbs and about the tires (I guess it was the Bridgestone stock version) which worked not as good as these on the S 2000. Although the Nordschleife is a high speed track there are a lot of sections where suspension is more important than sheer power (and 40 HP difference is not that much).

Not to created any negative remarks, but the way your talking why don't you just throw in the towel on you NSX and start fresh with a Cayman if it's that much better??

In other words without you saying anything, your still racing a Honda, not a Porsche....correct?

 

[NSX-Racer]

Not to created any negative remarks, but the way your talking why don't you just throw in the towel on you NSX and start fresh with a Cayman if it's that much better??

In other words without you saying anything, your still racing a Honda, not a Porsche....correct?

Why should I race a Porsche or throw a towel on the NSX? Did I say the Cayman is much better than my NSX? No, it isn't, it has just better lap times than the stock NSX (which is something different than my NSX). And Honda didn't bring the NSX-R to the whole world - this is what I'm complaining about. You should have seen the inspired comments here in the car press about the NSX-R, followed by sentences like "oh, sorry, you can't have this car, it's just a test model with RHD owned by Honda Germany" - isn't that frustrating?

I remember when the first test was published here they were not clear about if and when it would be available. Some seconds after I read this I called the press department of Honda Germany and asked when I can buy this car. They told me the bad news and I was disappointed.

So all we can do is modifying our old NSX (in which signature did I read: "Don' let friends drive stock"?) and our driving skills so that we can keep up with these up-to-date-technology cars - and the good news is: I can!

edit: I can again when I solved these annoying engine and cooling problems :frown: