Why Carbon Fiber?

[RoNSX]

What is the attraction of carbon fibor replacment parts? (hoods, interior trim pieces, engine compartment components, etc.)

I understand it may be lighter than some metals, and likely dent resistent, but like fiber glass isn't is vulnerable to cracking and chipping?

Is it purely a personal preference for the way it looks?

I feel like I'm missing something.

I tried searching forum, but got too many hits, and of those I reviewed none addressed the benefits to CF and why it is sought after by a number of NSX owners.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

For me its a 75% decision on looks and 25% for the weight saved.

A well crafted piece of c/f with a good clear coat looks killer!

 

[2slow2speed]

Weight reduction would be a valid point, but most of the parts on my car are Wet CF or CF layup no Dry CF with the exception of some parts...

In my particular case I am too cheap to spend $$'s trying to match their colors to my car (besides the decklid spoiler that I bought from Stuart which was already painted yellow), so I leave them as is, since they are still functional. At least it's better than primer .

Ken

 

[NSXDreamer2]

Carbon fiber hood is utilizing its light material, on Some cars you just can feel the difference after the first corner you made!! Nose heavy car with big long hood.

I could see it won't make too much performance gain, since NSX used aluminum to save weight already. The interior and engine trim piece is mainly for cosmetics purpose... that said however, on those Race car you will see Carbon fiber everywhere, since they would like to shave down the last ounce in the un-wanted area... you know even you may only save couple lbs off one part, but they add up...

 

[ajnsx]

lightness, strength and for some the 'coolness' factor of carbon fibre parts, or better yet entire carbon fibre cars (japan). I have heard that the stuff shatters in crashes though, true or not?

 

[NSXDreamer2]

some of them does, since some basically is just a gel coat over a sheet of carbon fiber sheet...

Some of them actually take a lot more impact than a stock hood, (stock hood will dent, this just bounce back.) One company actually tried to throw a tire with wheel on top of their hood 5 ft above it, and the hood just "thud" and bounce back with no visible damage. There's one problem about this, It's being too rigid yet too flexable yet if you have an frontal impact, there's chance that the whole carbon piece push inside the cabin and hurt driver/occupants. In that case, I would actually opt for the one that shatter...

Stock hood were made such that in serious collision, it will sort of absorb the energy by folding itself... does the stock hood was made the way that won't take a lot of abuse...

 

[Soichiro]

>>Some of them actually take a lot more impact than a stock hood, (stock hood will dent, this just bounce back.)
>>There's one problem about this, It's being too rigid yet too flexable yet if you have an frontal impact, there's chance that the whole carbon piece push inside the cabin and hurt driver/occupants. In that case, I would actually opt for the one that shatter...

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE! Where did you get this information? I suspect you simply made it up based on what you *think* might happen. Do you work on a race team? Do you work with carbon? Do you work with composite engineers?

I do. The main benefit of most carbon pieces sold to enthusiasts is looks. They may be lighter weight than the materials they replace, they may not. A professionally engineered piece will have the carbon fibers oriented in a specific direction, will use specific thicknesses of carbon mixed with nomex or other fibers, will use specific resins, will be cured for a specific time, each specific to match the use of the piece. Most people see carbon simply as 'black fiberglas' and nothing could be further from the truth. To answer the original question carbon does not suffer from spider cracks like fiberglas. It is much more rigid.

 

[Rubber Chicken]

[BI do. The main benefit of most carbon pieces sold to enthusiasts is looks. They may be lighter weight than the materials they replace, they may not. A professionally engineered piece will have the carbon fibers oriented in a specific direction, will use specific thicknesses of carbon mixed with nomex or other fibers, will use specific resins, will be cured for a specific time, each specific to match the use of the piece. Most people see carbon simply as 'black fiberglas' and nothing could be further from the truth. To answer the original question carbon does not suffer from spider cracks like fiberglas. It is much more rigid. [/B]

Agreeing with Soichiro.

Btw Soichiro, where do you work in Atlanta that does work on composites? Need a Georgia Tech Aerospace Engineer fresh outta school?

 

[nsxtasy]

Carbon fiber hood is utilizing its light material, on Some cars you just can feel the difference after the first corner you made!! Nose heavy car with big long hood.

I could see it won't make too much performance gain, since NSX used aluminum to save weight already. The interior and engine trim piece is mainly for cosmetics purpose... that said however, on those Race car you will see Carbon fiber everywhere, since they would like to shave down the last ounce in the un-wanted area... you know even you may only save couple lbs off one part, but they add up...

Many NSX owners have never had the chance to pick up a hood, or a fender, or other aluminum NSX body parts. If you ever get the chance, do so. They are incredibly light! Don't assume any significant weight savings and you won't be disappointed.

The stock NSX hood weighs 15 pounds.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

Soichiro, are you saying I made them all up and trying to fool people around??

I did not make up any of these... 1. I saw the video of that dropping tires experiment on the company's web site... I don't think you can do that to any of the metal hood... I agree that you have "work" with the "real" carbon fiber, and to your professional eyes, those aftermarket c/f products are garbage.

I did state that for nsx owners there won't be too much weight saving, did I?? I'm only speaking of the experience on my crappy Accord. I saved more than 30 lbs over the stock steel hood.

I do agree that most aftermarket enthusiast want cf made stuff just for looks. But on certain parts they have the bonus of some sort of performance gains.

On the accident scenerio, I had no idea if that's true or not, but my sister was in one of her engeering class and the professor said there's a potential risk of those after market hood. I know for sure that Engineerers when they design the car, The hood is made to absorb some of the impact and crumbled, so it won't shoot thru the windsheild and hit passengers.

But I agreed that Carbon Fiber used on Professional Race team is the real deal.

 

[2slow2speed]

OT, LOL another GT Alumni?

Agreeing with Soichiro.

Btw Soichiro, where do you work in Atlanta that does work on composites? Need a Georgia Tech Aerospace Engineer fresh outta school?

LOL, I wonder how many GT Alumni are on this board? I'm
a BSEE 89/MSEE 91 thus my choice of yellow and black for
my NSX. (GO Yellow Jackets!)

[Actually it was just coincidence ]

Seriously, my Type-S seats are carbon-kevlar and they are
indeed pretty solid and lightweight too..

Ken

 

[Forums Nazi]

I wonder how many GT Alumni are on this board?

You can find out by posting here.

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Re: OT, LOL another GT Alumni?

LOL, I wonder how many GT Alumni are on this board? I'm
a BSEE 89/MSEE 91 thus my choice of yellow and black for
my NSX. (GO Yellow Jackets!)

[Actually it was just coincidence ]

Seriously, my Type-S seats are carbon-kevlar and they are
indeed pretty solid and lightweight too..

Ken

I'd like to qualify your statement and add "How many GT alumni are on this board named Ken?"

We were so freakin close to FSU last week, I was proud of our team.

 

[96-EJ6]

some of them does, since some basically is just a gel coat over a sheet of carbon fiber sheet...

Some of them actually take a lot more impact than a stock hood, (stock hood will dent, this just bounce back.) One company actually tried to throw a tire with wheel on top of their hood 5 ft above it, and the hood just "thud" and bounce back with no visible damage. There's one problem about this, It's being too rigid yet too flexable yet if you have an frontal impact, there's chance that the whole carbon piece push inside the cabin and hurt driver/occupants. In that case, I would actually opt for the one that shatter...

Stock hood were made such that in serious collision, it will sort of absorb the energy by folding itself... does the stock hood was made the way that won't take a lot of abuse...

I have first hand experince that crebon fiber will not shatter...when i wrecked my Civic I had a CF hood and front lip on it and neither shatterd. The hood ended up ith a small chunck misssing out of it and the lip made it through unscathed. A good quality part won't shatter, and will have similar damage to a metal part...minus all the bending lol.

 

[Soichiro]

>>I saved more than 30 lbs over the stock steel hood.

That is interesting since the stock hood weighs 27 pounds. Does your carbon replacement use anti-gravity technology?

Please post the weight of your stock hood and of your replacement hood. You DID weigh them before posting your findings didn't you?

 

[NSXDreamer2]

Soichiro , if you looked at my original post,

I did state that for nsx owners there won't be too much weight saving, did I?? I'm only speaking of the experience on my crappy Accord. I saved more than 30 lbs over the stock steel hood.

.

Are you sure a 95 Honda Accord V6 stock hood weights 27 lbs??

Please read before you bite someone's head off,
Mr. Professional. I wished we had a "middle finger" smilies and flapped that on you.

But I guessed we are educated people here, so I'm not going to post or reply on this particular one anymore, since arguing over forum is meaningless. Yes, you owned me, you made me upset and I'm definately annoyed by your attitude.

 

[Soichiro]

>>Are you sure a 95 Honda Accord V6 stock hood weights 27 lbs??

I asked you first. You posted that you replaced your hood. Did you weigh it? If not how do you know how much weight you saved?

Is asking a question biting someone's head off?

 

[NSXDreamer2]

Ok, then I guessed it just the way I read your post that gave me a wrong tone of your message.

but you did state that: That is interesting since the stock hood weighs 27 pounds. Does your carbon replacement use anti-gravity technology?
the 27 lbs hood you are stating is the nsx one I believed.

I'll go home and weight the stock honda accord hood, but trust me I lift packages in my warehouse almost everyday (the products weighting 30 to 125 lbs, so I know pretty well the weight just by feeling it already. I'm not a muscular guy if you know what i mean.) and I installed my carbon hood and restore my stock hood in my basement. Also, the CF hood I got is one of those cheap one meaning that it's very thin yet the lightest available. Thus make the difference.

 

[CDub]

I think this is a good topic of discussion, I see race cars use CF extensively. Although it becomes trendy with the CF look, I'm sure it has it's own benefits like someone have already pointed out.

I do think that the reply from Soichiro was a bit harsh. We have a nice group of people from different background. DIY types that tends to know the benefits of certain mods. The engineering type that has the knowledge of how and why ithey work. Art and design type that view these mods from a different angle. It is all good.

Lets keep it a friendly place for us to discuss issues from different angles and learn from each other.

Now back to the regular programming.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

Thanks CDub, now I know you are my type of guy.
Thanks for standing on my side.

Anyway, Soichiro, I think I shouldn't take yours too offensively too, but I guessed it could be innocent. ( Means that you probably don't mean to be harsh.)

You are not in a management position, are you? (My GM always sound harsh and mean on emails, but in person, he's not. )

Lets go back to the Conclusion, on nsx, unless you had changed a lot of CF products extensively, you will not have a considerable amount of performance gain. (except you have those cf racing seat, stock seat are pretty heavy with the motors.) Weight distribution, chassis lightening for examples.

However, if you have anything "add-on" the Cf still the best product in terms of being light weight.

 

[westernb4]

I just bought a carbon-fiber kayak paddle. It's extremely lightweight. Seems like the perfect sort of application for this material.
When used as trim on the interior of a vehicle, carbon fiber pretty much seems to serve the same purpose as that fake wood on the outside of station wagons.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

I sell c/f hoods and for an example here is weights on an Integra.
A stock Integra hood weighs about 30lbs a c/f hood with a fiberglass under weighs about 25lbs and an ultra light c/f hood weighs about 15 lbs. so at the most on an Integra you get a 50% weight savings which equals about 15 lbs. Now Ken has a point the NSX aluminum piece vs a c/f one will probably be 1/2 of that say 7lbs. (don't eat that Micky D's value meal and save that!)

Also one time I forgot to put my hood pins back in after an event @ Gingerman, and on the way home on the highway I had the latch fail @ 70mph and the c/f hood came up and crashed onto my windshield and roof!!! (scared the hell outa me) The hood stayed in tact, and shattered thus actually saving my windshield and sunroof (Integra GSR) It was the heavier show hood though with the fiberglass underlayment. NOT true layered c/f which would not have shattered as easy.