what would you do?
When you realized you're too hot into a corner.....
- Thread starter polar
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pray for plenty of run off area 
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Hit the brake hard, and try to extend the turn into a long straight. Scrub speed as much as you can.
Andrie Hartanto said:
I'm assuming this is before you start to get the ass end out right? (not trying to be smart but I'm going to my first event on friday and hell i'm curious too)
-x-
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Andrie Hartanto said:
And go off as straight as possible.
If you are too hot into a corner and you realize it as you are turning - you have to have practiced this - but you want to counter steer and go to neutral throttle smoothly to give up the apex and use the width of the track without abruptly shifting weight front to back.
My favorite track book remains "Sports Car and Competition Driving" by Paul Frere.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/102-4088998-6700941?v=glance&s=books
It covers many of the aspects of driving dynamics and should be required reading prior to any driver's ed or racing IMO.
Good luck - easier said then done.
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VBNSX said:
You DONT want your tail to hang out while going off the track ! What he's saying is to straighten the wheels as much as possible ("make the turn into a long straight"), hit the brakes as hard as possible without destabilizing the car too much and bring the car's speed safely down while going as straight as possible ...
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Usually what happens before realizing you're too hot in the turn, is that you go for the brakes to slow down before the turn and realize that nobody is in the brake's department ! (hence entering too hot in the turn)
That's why I like to tap my brakes just before reaching my braking points, just to make sure they are still there ! (never a problem on the X, another story on my ex GM cars)
That's why I like to tap my brakes just before reaching my braking points, just to make sure they are still there ! (never a problem on the X, another story on my ex GM cars)
Ditto matteni's and Andrie's advice. Your car brakes best in a straight line so use as much straight line braking as possible. You should be able to scrub off enough speed to make the corner provided it's a matter of not braking enough vs. not braking at all. If it's not braking at all, you have more to worry about than not making the corner.
Ditto again. Great book. Foreward by Phil Hill.
matteni said:
Ditto again. Great book. Foreward by Phil Hill.
Easy. If the NSX is anything like the MR2, give it more throttle. It will seem like the absolute wrong thing to do, and every bone in your body will tell you to brake, but give it more gas and a quick flick of the wheel and around you go.
-- DavidV
-- DavidV
BoostedMR2 said:Easy. If the NSX is anything like the MR2, give it more throttle. It will seem like the absolute wrong thing to do, and every bone in your body will tell you to brake, but give it more gas and a quick flick of the wheel and around you go.
-- DavidV
That won't help when a wall is at the exit of your turn. Another good book is "Going Faster", the Skip Barber book.
What would I do when I'm too hot into a corner or sudden brake fade......
I'll abort the ideal driving line by squeezing on the brake as progressive and as early as possible w/o disrupting the balance too much, then immediately (but gently) aim the car to clip an early apex and get it to point straight ahead to lengthen the braking distance. As soon as I feel enough speed have been scrubbed off from the prolonged braking and front tires are loaded enough from the forward weight transfer, then I begin to turn the car around the corner and apply throttle gently after the initial turn of the wheel and apply further as I unwind.
Now if I go in waaaay too hot and can't make that turn unless God himself reached down from the heavens, I'd pray for enough runoff space and hold on tight to my steering wheels (keep 'em straight) 'cause I'm going for a ride into the walls, or off the cliff I go!
I'll abort the ideal driving line by squeezing on the brake as progressive and as early as possible w/o disrupting the balance too much, then immediately (but gently) aim the car to clip an early apex and get it to point straight ahead to lengthen the braking distance. As soon as I feel enough speed have been scrubbed off from the prolonged braking and front tires are loaded enough from the forward weight transfer, then I begin to turn the car around the corner and apply throttle gently after the initial turn of the wheel and apply further as I unwind.
Now if I go in waaaay too hot and can't make that turn unless God himself reached down from the heavens, I'd pray for enough runoff space and hold on tight to my steering wheels (keep 'em straight) 'cause I'm going for a ride into the walls, or off the cliff I go!
If you track your car and you have to think before you react you're too late in any case or you do the wrong thing no matter what you intended to do. Do more instructed driving training before you even come close to the situation you described.
If you're still not able to react right without thinking after these trainings you shouldn't track your car at all.
If you're still not able to react right without thinking after these trainings you shouldn't track your car at all.
nsx-racer,
You got a point there and I do agree with you. If you have to think the whole thing through while it's happening then it's already over. On my last post I was merely trying recall from memory of what I've instinctively been doing right given the circumstance and try to verbally iterate every little detail that I can recall. In practice though, the whole event took only a couple of seconds at most.
Please pardon me for my obsession with lengthy descriptions (an uncurable disposition I know) that made the whole process seemed longer than it was. Lord knows how many times I overcooked a corner (3 times in the rain w/ no treads left) but I must've been lucky because I'm still around, not a sratch on my S2000 yet (knock wood), babbling nonsense.
Nevertheless, I thank you for your consideration on my well-being. No sarcasms intended - just my sincere gratitude for your helpful insight.
Cheers!
You got a point there and I do agree with you. If you have to think the whole thing through while it's happening then it's already over. On my last post I was merely trying recall from memory of what I've instinctively been doing right given the circumstance and try to verbally iterate every little detail that I can recall. In practice though, the whole event took only a couple of seconds at most.
Please pardon me for my obsession with lengthy descriptions (an uncurable disposition I know
) that made the whole process seemed longer than it was. Lord knows how many times I overcooked a corner (3 times in the rain w/ no treads left) but I must've been lucky because I'm still around, not a sratch on my S2000 yet (knock wood), babbling nonsense. Nevertheless, I thank you for your consideration on my well-being. No sarcasms intended - just my sincere gratitude for your helpful insight.
Cheers!
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If I take it to mean that you find yourself going too fast at turn in(which is a variable thing,PD Cunningham might have a different comfort level at turn in than me or you)then you want to scrub speed quick in as striaght a line as possible.As was mentioned this lengthens the turn entry but may require you to go off the track.Don't fret because your car drives just fine on grass or dirt,not so great in a gravel trap.MOST IMPORTANT FOR THE NEWBIE IS PLEASE DON'T YANK THE CAR BACK ONTO THE DRIVING SURFACE.Most 2-4 wheel offs that end badly are because the driver felt a pressing need to stay on the pavement.This means you should know the track before you drive it.Know how much runoff there is and how far away from the track the walls and armco ,ect are.Please dont brake heavily while you still have lots of steering input still applied,throtlle can be your friend in the nsx,but it must be used judiciously and with modulation depending on what surface the rear tires are on.MHO
I should clarify. I agree with the others -- safest is to track off in a straight line. No point in rolling the car. However, if you are just a bit too hot and the car feels loose, transferring power back to the rear wheels with judicuous throttle application can help you hook-up up traction and make the bend. The trick is to only do this when it is safe and prudent and you have some track surface left to play with -- and only when you have not completely overcooked it.
-- DavidV
-- DavidV
Interesting comments and advice thus far.
I am not as accomplished tracker as others who posted, but I guess the answer really depends on how hot too hot is given your circumstances ....
1. If you are just at the limit of "your" car and you sense the rear is about to lose it (it wiggles enough that causes you to worry), a slight lift of the throttle and then back on moderate throttle enough to plant some rear traction again should solve the problem. Been there several times, and managed to save it every time. More accomplished drivers may push this envelope a little more to take advantage of a controlled oversteer driving as desirable.
2. If you are even hotter, where you anticipate a definite spin unless you do something, I think some moderate braking with continued moderate input steering will help you scrub off speed but also knowing full well that you "might" most likely run out of track out pavement. Hopefully by then you have scrubbed enough speed that you can continue off track (2 or even 4 off) in a straight line until the car settles; and as docjohn notes, do NOT force the car back to the track by overcorrecting the steering until it has settled enough where you are in control of the steering and direction. This is when cars shoot and bounce back into the inside wall or even roll - seen both happen.
3. If you are even hotter - perhaps because of brake failure, mechanical failure or complete mental lapse (otherwise I can see no excuse for it), then as Andrie said, hit the brake hard, and try to keep the car straight until you have scrubbed enough speed where giving some steering input to help scrub more speed will not make you roll - but a "planned" spin would be ok if you have wide enough track. Sometimes based on the track layout you may not be able to exercise any steering so hitting the brakes hard may be the only option. I have also mentally trained myself to pull the parking hand brake if need be - used to play with the hand brakes when I had a Mini back when ..... And if a wall is inevitably ahead of you, say a quick prayer and try to protect your arms and legs from the coming impact by letting go of the steering and unlocking your knees.
HTH
I am not as accomplished tracker as others who posted, but I guess the answer really depends on how hot too hot is given your circumstances ....
1. If you are just at the limit of "your" car and you sense the rear is about to lose it (it wiggles enough that causes you to worry), a slight lift of the throttle and then back on moderate throttle enough to plant some rear traction again should solve the problem. Been there several times, and managed to save it every time. More accomplished drivers may push this envelope a little more to take advantage of a controlled oversteer driving as desirable.
2. If you are even hotter, where you anticipate a definite spin unless you do something, I think some moderate braking with continued moderate input steering will help you scrub off speed but also knowing full well that you "might" most likely run out of track out pavement. Hopefully by then you have scrubbed enough speed that you can continue off track (2 or even 4 off) in a straight line until the car settles; and as docjohn notes, do NOT force the car back to the track by overcorrecting the steering until it has settled enough where you are in control of the steering and direction. This is when cars shoot and bounce back into the inside wall or even roll - seen both happen.
3. If you are even hotter
- perhaps because of brake failure, mechanical failure or complete mental lapse (otherwise I can see no excuse for it), then as Andrie said, hit the brake hard, and try to keep the car straight until you have scrubbed enough speed where giving some steering input to help scrub more speed will not make you roll - but a "planned" spin would be ok if you have wide enough track. Sometimes based on the track layout you may not be able to exercise any steering so hitting the brakes hard may be the only option. I have also mentally trained myself to pull the parking hand brake if need be - used to play with the hand brakes when I had a Mini back when ..... And if a wall is inevitably ahead of you, say a quick prayer and try to protect your arms and legs from the coming impact by letting go of the steering and unlocking your knees.HTH
I like to comment on Hrant #3 point.
If you know going off is inevitable. Don't let go of the steering wheel unless you are hitting a wall. Put both feet in unless you are really experience. If you are really experience, look to where you want to go. You will most likely end up where you are looking at. Don't look at the wall or at something you don't want to hit.
As far as books, "Going faster" and "Sports Car and Competition Driving" are good books. but more toward beginner. Get Drive to Win by Carroll Smith. This book will simulate your brain and think how to cut that 1/10th of a second that been eluding you.
Anybody subscribe to Racecar Engineering magazine? They have very good articles about racing in general.
for mental preparation read Speed Secret by Ross Bentley. 30% of racing is about mental game.
If you know going off is inevitable. Don't let go of the steering wheel unless you are hitting a wall. Put both feet in unless you are really experience. If you are really experience, look to where you want to go. You will most likely end up where you are looking at. Don't look at the wall or at something you don't want to hit.
As far as books, "Going faster" and "Sports Car and Competition Driving" are good books. but more toward beginner. Get Drive to Win by Carroll Smith. This book will simulate your brain and think how to cut that 1/10th of a second that been eluding you.
Anybody subscribe to Racecar Engineering magazine? They have very good articles about racing in general.
for mental preparation read Speed Secret by Ross Bentley. 30% of racing is about mental game.
I learned a lot by reading "A twist of the wrist" 1&2 bei Keith Code. Although it was for motorbike racing and seemed to be supported by Scientology these books have a lot of good points and ideas you can use with racecars too.
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