When does north america ....

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3 June 2005
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Barrington, IL
When does north america change from excess to efficiency??? Gas prices are at an all time high as is our national debt. Credit card late payments are at the highest percentage ever. Does anyone else see the foreshadowing here? I drive to work and wonder about what super high gas milage car I should buy to save money and gas, then three escalades pass with 20" rims. Americans need to take a reality check. If we are so advanced and so civilized why are we not the most efficient?
Dodge was brilliant when they decided to change their market strategy and put a Hemi in every car they could. WTF? That is the opposite of what we should be doing. The NSX is an amazing super car because it is a beast with a fuel efficient V6.
I get disturbed when I look at people today and they have to have the most expensive name brand sh!t. The story of hurricane Katrina vicitims using FEMA debit cards to buy LV purses and designer jeans while their kids look like they have not had a bath is a perfect example of the problem.
I know a lot of people on Prime think a bit different, but when will the rest of the US wake the F! up.
We need to focus on alternative energy sources and producing lightweight composite materials that are cost efficient. There are so many places where technolgy has made advances and they are not implemented.
I hope that life is not hit with another great depression before people wake up.
 
nuccaJB said:
When does north america change from excess to efficiency??? Gas prices are at an all time high as is our national debt. Credit card late payments are at the highest percentage ever. Does anyone else see the foreshadowing here? I drive to work and wonder about what super high gas milage car I should buy to save money and gas, then three escalades pass with 20" rims. Americans need to take a reality check. If we are so advanced and so civilized why are we not the most efficient?
Dodge was brilliant when they decided to change their market strategy and put a Hemi in every car they could. WTF? That is the opposite of what we should be doing. The NSX is an amazing super car because it is a beast with a fuel efficient V6.
I get disturbed when I look at people today and they have to have the most expensive name brand sh!t. The story of hurricane Katrina vicitims using FEMA debit cards to buy LV purses and designer jeans while their kids look like they have not had a bath is a perfect example of the problem.
I know a lot of people on Prime think a bit different, but when will the rest of the US wake the F! up.
We need to focus on alternative energy sources and producing lightweight composite materials that are cost efficient. There are so many places where technolgy has made advances and they are not implemented.
I hope that life is not hit with another great depression before people wake up.
nucca,
i agree with your post, however ironic it is that the post is being made to such a niche audience of completely "designer" cars, however fuel-efficient they may be :)

my observation is that our older generation (depression-era folks who are still alive) are as cautious as they ever were out of fear of another depression; baby boomers are more willing to live with debt but as we near retirement, we're changing our spending/saving habits. it's the younger generation that i worry about - by and large, they've lived with "easy credit" and have a difficult time believing it won't continue as-is so continue to over-consume.

my experience is that, in general, change occurs when continuing down the same path becomes more pain than the person is willing to endure for the benefits received.

i'm of the belief that there's a really ugly mess heading our way and we better get our collective act(s) together. (help, the paranoids are after me :)

as for the poster who asked about you being against freedom, i saw no declaration of that position in nucca's post. people are free to overconsume themselves into oblivion, it's just that some of us don't want to be drug down with them.

thx for the post, nucca.
 
Disclaimer: I am not posting this for any other reason than I think there is a good chance that bad things can happen, and I would not be a good person if I did not even mention it.

The Coming Depression

Contributed by: PatM
By Patrick Meloy
Sept 11, 2005

The United States is pushing towards a war with Iran with the stated reason that Iran is attempting to build nuclear weapons. We now know that Iraq’s alleged “weapons of mass destruction” that were said to be poised to annihilate the free world at a moment’s notice, did not exist. The United States and Britain used weak and false intelligence to spread this fallacy in an effort to legitimize a war of aggression and they are trying to do the same thing again. Iraq did indeed pose a real and serious threat to the United States, but not by way any military weapons. Iraq had the power to destroy the value of the American Dollar and along with it, the American Economy.

To understand this true weapon of mass destruction, you must understand the position the American Dollar holds in the world economy.

After WWII, Europe lay in ruins. The United States instituted the Marshall Plan where the US loaned massive amounts of money to European nations with the condition that goods and services be purchased from the United States. It was a great success; Europe was quickly able to rebuild its infrastructure and industry while US companies made fortunes supplying Europe’s needs. Because so many countries had so many US dollars, they ended up using them to purchase goods and services from other countries as well - including oil from the Middle East. In fact, two energy exchanges, the International Petroleum Exchange (IPE) in London, and the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX) emerged as the only places to trade energy products and everything was priced in US dollars. In the 1970s, after the US made deal with Saudi Arabia, virtually the only currency you could use to purchase oil was the US dollar. This made the Greenback the dominant currency in the world, used for most (Western) trade and all energy purchases. This was a great deal for the United States - the value of the US dollar gained strength rapidly and they could afford to print huge sums of money without risk of devaluing their currency. Most of the newly printed money ended up offshore, in the vaults of central banks around the world that needed it for trade and energy.

Due to Free Trade, Globalization, and Reaganomics, American manufacturing fled to low-wage countries in search of higher profits. American output fell; unemployment rose, and the Federal government started borrowing madly to maintain spending levels; at the same time, their ability to pay shrank. America is now in a worse economic position than that of either Brazil or Korea when those countries’ economies melted down. The United States has an advantage that neither of those countries had though, massive amounts of their own currency sitting in other countries’ central banks collecting dust. America was able to borrow back its own currency from a multitude of countries that were happy to have their reserves earning interest instead of just laying around. This process of printing money for use outside the country and then having it come back as investments is known as “Recycling the Petro Dollar”.

Most of the world now realizes that the main reason for the USA to invade Iraq was to take its oil. What most governments, but few citizens, know, is that the rush to war was due to Saddam Hussain’s committing the high crime of accepting Euro dollars for oil under the “Oil for Food” program. While oil sales from Iraq were minimal due to UN sanctions, the act of defiance did not go unnoticed. Iran, Venezuela, and North Korea all started to dump portions of their US dollar reserves, and OPEC itself received European Union representatives who gave a presentation on the advantages of using the Euro currency for oil sales. The EU today is actually a larger market than the USA. It has more people and more money, and uses more oil than the United States. As OPECs largest single customer, it makes sense to use their currency. With Europe posing a major threat to the hegemony of the US Greenback, the USA decided it had to do something drastic to show OPEC that it would not allow a switch to the Euro. This is why; shortly after Iraq’s conversion to the Euro in late 2000, the USA used the excuse of 9/11 to invade Iraq - not to fight terrorism, but to perpetrate terror itself in order to keep OPEC in line. One can understand the reticence of Germany, France, and Russia when it came to invading Iraq, as switching to the Euro would have been a strategic economic victory.

In 2003, Iran began selling oil for Euros to a large number of Euro-dominated countries. The Euro was already making inroads as a replacement trade currency and this switch to the Euro for oil has played a large part in the US dollar’s declining value. As if this crime against the USA wasn’t enough, Iran also announced its intention to open its own Oil Bourse (exchange) in late 2005 (now delayed until spring 2006), competing with the two American owned exchanges, NYMEX and IPE. The last technical hurdle to the Euro taking over as both world trade and energy currency would be eliminated; the US dollar would likely go into freefall as central banks dumped their Greenbacks and bought Euros. The US has been working hard overtly, with its weapons of mass destruction smear campaign, as well as covertly, using its own cadre of terrorists, the M.E.K, to destabilize the Iranian government. The USA lacks the troops to invade and Dick Cheney has asked the Pentagon to draft a plan to use nuclear weapons against Iran. Assuming that Russia and China do not retaliate with a missile attack against the USA and its assets, using nuclear weapons against Iran could push the rest of the world to use its only real defense against the USA, dumping the Greenback and destroying the US economy. If the US does not attack, the oil bourse will open and the ultimate result will likely be the same: the end of the USA as a world power and the start of a new “Great Depression”.

source:

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20050916054129788
 
Interesting artcile. I have hard time beleiving any of it, but interesting nonetheless. I don't see the US using nuclear weapons against anybody.
 
queenlives said:
as for the poster who asked about you being against freedom, i saw no declaration of that position in nucca's post. people are free to overconsume themselves into oblivion, it's just that some of us don't want to be drug down with them.

thx for the post, nucca.

My post was meant to be ironic and was not meant to suggest that nucca was against freedom.

"Why do you hate freedom" is the standard response of those who abhor dissent as unpatriotic and smear anyone who challenges authority. Hence the winking smiley. :smile:

For example:

Q: How many Bush Administration officials does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: None. There is nothing wrong with the light bulb. It's improving every day. Any reports of its lack of incandescence are a delusional spin from the liberal media. That light bulb has served honorably, and anything you say undermines the lighting effect. Why do you hate freedom?
 
brahtw8 said:
My post was meant to be ironic and was not meant to suggest that nucca was against freedom.

"Why do you hate freedom" is the standard response of those who abhor dissent as unpatriotic and smear anyone who challenges authority. Hence the winking smiley. :smile: [/B]
gotcha, sorry for the misfire. brain cramp here, apparently.
 
nuccaJB said:
I drive to work and wonder about what super high gas milage car I should buy to save money and gas, then three escalades pass with 20" rims.

Just how much do you save when you are hit head on by an escalade while driving a Prius. All the money you saved will do you no good then.
I want to be driving the largest, most dense vehicle I can. I don't care what gas cost if I get to walk away from an accident. I have been in several horrible accidents in my lifetime all caused by the other party so I may be a little impartial here.

Queenlives I love this quote and have added it to my collection.

my experience is that, in general, change occurs when continuing down the same path becomes more pain than the person is willing to endure for the benefits received.
 
steveny said:
<snip> Queenlives I love this quote and have added it to my collection.

my experience is that, in general, change occurs when continuing down the same path becomes more pain than the person is willing to endure for the benefits received.
all yours :) (but if you use it as the title of a best selling book, at least give me an acknowledgement, say... in the form of the next gen nsx :)
 
steveny said:
I want to be driving the largest, most dense vehicle I can. I don't care what gas cost if I get to walk away from an accident. I have been in several horrible accidents in my lifetime all caused by the other party so I may be a little impartial here.

LOL, let me know where you are driving and I will avoid those roads. I have almost exclusively owned H&A cars. I can't say that I have been in a serious accident, but from second hand accounts they are very safe in bad accidents. As for having the most dense vehicle, part of the point is eventually decreasing the mass and density of all vehicles for overall gains.

I don't hate my freedom, pun or not, but I guarantee our founding fathers would be disgusted with the way our country operates today. Call it a free market if you want, I call it a "use your lobbyists to line the congressman's pocket" economy.

If you believe you actually live in a free market and that it is a truely competitive market, talk to the little company. Try and break into the oil industry and revolutionize it today. The guys with the fat pockets will have laws passed to bump you out, if you make it that far.
 
NetViper said:
Interesting artcile. I have hard time beleiving any of it, but interesting nonetheless.

Oh yee of narrow mindset. :eek:

NetViper said:
I don't see the US using nuclear weapons against anybody.

Really?!?!? And just who was it that dropped two big ones on Japan? :rolleyes:
 
Yellow Rose said:
Oh yee of narrow mindset. :eek:
I don't have a narrow mind by any means, however, that is on a french canadian site and it doesn't exactly look highly legit.


Really?!?!? And just who was it that dropped two big ones on Japan? :rolleyes:

And how many year ago was that? Do you really think we would do that again and risk the retaliation of a nuclear war. I sure hope not.

Andy, you sure do like to argue don't you. I am going to try and think of something I could write that you don't disagree with.... :wink:
 
And how many year ago was that? Do you really think we would do that again and risk the retaliation of a nuclear war. I sure hope not.

I sure hope not too, but I could actually see it happening.


I am going to try and think of something I could write that you don't disagree with....

How about, "The sky is blue." :smile:
 
A good debate is always hearty for the soul.

Or as my Mom would always say, "Andrew, why do you have to have the last word?" :biggrin:

The sky is not always blue.....there is white, gray and beautiful shades of orange.

Poopie. :smile:
 
NetViper said:
Interesting artcile. I have hard time beleiving any of it, but interesting nonetheless. I don't see the US using nuclear weapons against anybody.


haha well maybe china... lol we have a record of blowing up asian people with nuclear weepoons!!
 
While the NSX is a fuel efficient sports car, it is not a fuel efficient car. There are plenty of cars with more capacity and much higher mileage available. No offense, but we always think what we are doing is appropriate and are quick to judge others.

As for alternative fuel sources, I could not agree with you more. And I have to admit I’d probably be one of the last to give in. After all, I am a car enthusiast and who thinks early fuel cell cars will be any kind of sports car.

Besides, there’s a built in cash flow for funding alternative fuel. It would be an additional tax on gasoline! Yes, gas should cost more and we should be using the additional tax to fund alternative fuel sources for so many reason. But of course ... we won’t. OPEC until just a few months ago kept the price of gas low enough not to anger the consumer into thinking about alternative fuels. That’s their whole reason for keeping gas prices low in the past. It’s impossible to find alternative fuel sources and build the infrastructure for them … unless gas prices rise to the point where it’s cost effective.

But don’t yell at me. Where were all the posts when the price of gas held for years on end saying it was too inexpensive ???
 
MAJOR STONER said:
Disclaimer: I am not posting this for any other reason than I think there is a good chance that bad things can happen, and I would not be a good person if I did not even mention it.

The Coming Depression

Contributed by: PatM
By Patrick Meloy
Sept 11, 2005


Most of the world now realizes that the main reason for the USA to invade Iraq was to take its oil.
source:

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20050916054129788


I just saw a trivia question on TV that asked who supplies the most oil to the USA, Venuzuela or Canada. Guess what the answer was? Canada! So far it doesn't appear that Iraq's oil is even registering enough volume for warrant being one of the answers. But I'm sure the Canadiens would explain that away as we're still rebuilding the infrastructure that we destroyed over there.... and THEN we'll start to bleed them dry. :rolleyes:
 
My bills are almost at zero! Woot!!...NO DEBT!! I am the minority in society probably but...woooo...gonna be good!! Savin up for NSX ver 2.0 to pay in cash!! :biggrin:
 
NSXrunner said:
My bills are almost at zero! Woot!!...NO DEBT!! I am the minority in society probably but...woooo...gonna be good!! Savin up for NSX ver 2.0 to pay in cash!! :biggrin:
you're one smart cookie to be near zero debt.
 
steveny said:
I want to be driving the largest, most dense vehicle I can.

And so does everybody else. The catch is that when 2 civic run into each other everybody lives. When 2 hummers run into each other, everybody dies. Besides, lugging around a top heavy 6000# POS hardly qualifies as living. I'll drive my 2000# fun car that also happens to get 30 mpg. I'm also glad I don't live in a state of perpetual fear coupled by emotionally driven overreaction.
 
comquat1 said:
I just saw a trivia question on TV that asked who supplies the most oil to the USA, Venuzuela or Canada. Guess what the answer was? Canada! So far it doesn't appear that Iraq's oil is even registering enough volume for warrant being one of the answers. But I'm sure the Canadiens would explain that away as we're still rebuilding the infrastructure that we destroyed over there.... and THEN we'll start to bleed them dry. :rolleyes:


I saw that too. I think they have been the #1 supplier for 7 years straight now. Who knew? Not me. :smile:
 
Dave Hardy said:
And so does everybody else. The catch is that when 2 civic run into each other everybody lives. When 2 hummers run into each other, everybody dies. Besides, lugging around a top heavy 6000# POS hardly qualifies as living. I'll drive my 2000# fun car that also happens to get 30 mpg. I'm also glad I don't live in a state of perpetual fear coupled by emotionally driven overreaction.


Ya, but if the 6000 pound hummer runs in to you in your 2000 pound car, only one of you will die.
 
khappucino said:
haha well maybe china... lol we have a record of blowing up asian people with nuclear weepoons!!
Strange that you would include "haha" and "lol" when talking about killing chinese people with nuclear weapons :confused: :confused:
I'm not trying to be mean, it just strikes me as distastefully morbid.

NetViper said:
And how many year ago was that? Do you really think we would do that again and risk the retaliation of a nuclear war. I sure hope not.
I doubt the US would do it again... not because we don't want to risk retaliation, but because we wouldn't want to destroy so many people needlessly. On the other hand, I have no doubt that there are certain nations out there that, given the right circumstances, would drop a couple warheads on the US. They may not share the same compassion for life - at least not western life. I think it is inevitable that we will kill ourselves off before we make the planet inhabitable. BTW, it wasn't very long ago that we dropped the bombs... I have living grandparents who were there... both American and Japanese.
 
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