Wheel Lugnuts Loose

[Honcho]

I noticed at each one of my last 3 track days, my front wheel lug nuts were loose after a couple of 20 minute sessions. I torque them to 85 ft/lbs at home the night before when I swap my brake pads, drive the car, and then re-torque so I know they are correct. I am running 2002+ wheels on 91 brakes, which requires a 5 mm spacer in order for the wheel to clear the brake caliper. I am using OEM wheel studs. Just the fronts get loose. The rears are always rock solid.

Could the 5 mm spacer be reducing the exposed threads enough so that the lugs do not get enough grip? Also, I noticed the spacer moves the wheel off the hub ring, menaing it is centered on the studs only. DOn't know if this would have an effect.

Assuming this is the cause, would it make sense to put a set of 97+ brackets on my 91 brakes so I can use the wheels without the spacer? Will they fit on my 91 calipers? Gonna be hitting the track again in a few weeks, so I'm curious.

 

[docjohn]

I know you are a well educated owner so why 85 ft/lbs?

 

[Tangoman]

Try 125 ft-lbs I think it will work better with spacers. Retorque when you want but you'll find they won't loosen up as much. And no, 125 ft-lbs won't hurt your studs or anything else. For track use 85 ft-lbs can be insufficient.

Also, you may need longer studs with those spacers - make sure you have enough thread engagement.

If you still have issues you should try different wheels without spacers, etc and start eliminating variables.

 

[Honcho]

I know you are a well educated owner so why 85 ft/lbs?

Pretty sure that is factory spec. Heard stories about 125 ft/lbs stretching studs and breaking at speed.

 

[docjohn]

factory is 80

 

[Honcho]

If you still have issues you should try different wheels without spacers, etc and start eliminating variables.

Exactly. That is why I am thinking of using 97+ brackets. They would eliminate the need for the spacer...i think. Adnan at AS Motorsport sells them. I just want to confirm fitment before I pull the trigger.

factory is 80

Yikes- they probably would spin off at that torque. Interestingly, this is a track-only issue. On the street (my NSX is my daily driver) the lugs stay tight.

 

[docjohn]

I have never had loose lugs at any track event if they were torqued by me to 80 ftlb in 14 years of tracking....I've had lugnuts get hard to spin,and a hub bearing nut spin off nearly losing a wheel.

 

[Honcho]

I have never had loose lugs at any track event if they were torqued by me to 80 ftlb in 14 years of tracking....I've had lugnuts get hard to spin,and a hub bearing nut spin off nearly losing a wheel.

And you never used spacers, right?

 

[docjohn]

I used 5mm in the rear because i have longer comptech studs put in years ago because of my blitz wheels needing them and me wanting to get enough lug purchase.

 

[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

I just ordered 3mm spacers from Dali but was thinking of 5mm for a second. He recommends replacing the studs to longer ones when using 5mm.

 

[illwillem]

I ran stock stud length on 5mm spacers for years, just check the torque spec of the lug and make sure the spacers are centered around the hub (I use a small piece of painters tape to hold it centered as I sandwich it with the wheel) - you'll be fine

 

[Briank]

I would get or make spacers that have the right counter bore for the hub and a hub to fit the wheel. Depending on just the studs is fine for the street but for track use you need the hub.

 

[AdvansCPAP]

If you are running aftermarket lug nuts with OEM wheels, that is your problem.

Could the 5 mm spacer be reducing the exposed threads enough so that the lugs do not get enough grip? - no

Also, I noticed the spacer moves the wheel off the hub ring, meaning it is centered on the studs only. DOn't know if this would have an effect. - most likely not because I never had that problem doing the same thing

If you are using OEM lugs, then I have no idea why you are having an issue.

 

[RYU]

it's your nuts

 

[AdvansCPAP]

^..LOL funny guy

 

[Honcho]

They are the OEM lugs. I think i am going to pull the trigger and get the 97+ brackets and eliminate the spacer alltogether. That fact that the rears stay put just fine tells me it is the spacer causing the problem.

 

[Honcho]

Just found out using the 97+ brackets will force me to use the uber-expensive 97+ rotors. Looks like I am back to square one. I have some extended studs and I guess I will try them. Also, is it possible to grind down the 91 brackets enough to clear the wheels? Has anyone tried?

 

[Track Addict]

I was told this by the man I was a crew chief for, "Lug nuts that wouldn't come loose in 100,000 miles on the street can come loose in just one session on track. Check them every time you come off track."

I have tracked for years (NSX and other cars) and it has always been practice to check my lugnuts after each session. While I have never had a set of lugs come loose on me as far as I can remember that has been the standard practice. I torque my wheels to 80 lbs/ft

 

[Nero Tenebre]

I think you need to get a spacer with its own integral lip / hub for the wheel to sit on. Can't have the wheel just applying shear to the studs if the 5mm uses up all the oem hub depth. I didn't realize this was the case, I noticed very little hub for the wheel to sit on the other day but I thought it was my bbk rotor thickness that was using some extra depth. Would have been nice if Honda put a little extra length in there for safety.