What's the deal with 10mm spacers?

[vf2ss]

I need some help understanding something. I'm considering installing spacers for my rears and have read that if you want 10mm you need to buy 15mm and have them shaved down. But I have also read that a rear 10mm spacer for the S2000 is an exact match and works great with no issue. I can't seem to find a definitive conclusion on the matter. Is it because at the time this or this was posted a correct 10mm spacer was not available, or is it something else?

I see these on ebay by H&R or these by [URL="http://www.ichibausa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AC-50610"]Ichiba[/URL], yet for example, SOS does not have a 10mm listed on their site which makes me wonder am I missing something or is it just not a popular size? Any help is appreciated.

 

[USAFguy22]

Those should work, you could even go 15mm and have integrated studs to save the hassle of replacing the oem studs (if your wheels have the space on the backside)
Here's a link to them along with all the other vehicles that share the same centerbore
http://www.evasivemotorsports.com/m...arch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high=

 

[Hapa88]

I think most (if not all) 10mm spacers are missing the hubcentric ring for wheels to mount on.

5mm spacers don't have them, because the hub is long enough to extend past the spacer.

At 10mm, you're past the factory hub, but you don't have enough material on the spacer to make a hubring that's structurally sound enough to hold the load of the wheel.

I think it's around the 15mm spacers which start to have the ring.

Also, keep in mind that H&R only lists 5mm, 15mm, and 25mm spacers for the NSX.
http://www.hrsprings.com

While the S2000 rears should fit, the NSX probably doesn't meet H&R's 'Maximum Hub Height' and 'Inner Wheel Bevel' requirements.
http://www.trakplus.com/trakguidelines/

 

[vf2ss]

I think most (if not all) 10mm spacers are missing the hubcentric ring for wheels to mount on.

5mm spacers don't have them, because the hub is long enough to extend past the spacer.

At 10mm, you're past the factory hub, but you don't have enough material on the spacer to make a hubring that's structurally sound enough to hold the load of the wheel.

I think it's around the 15mm spacers which start to have the ring.

I think I understand a little better now. So since H&R and Ichiba are offering a 10mm spacer (see 2 links in first post) that have a hubring on it for the wheel to actually mount on, that seems like it should work, no?

 

[vf2ss]

Here's a link to them along with all the other vehicles that share the same centerbore
http://www.evasivemotorsports.com/m...arch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high=

Unfortunately, 15mm puts me out of the ranges Angus had posted as well...but thanks for the link!

 

[Hapa88]

I think I understand a little better now. So since H&R and Ichiba are offering a 10mm spacer (see 2 links in first post) that have a hubring on it for the wheel to actually mount on, that seems like it should work, no?

Unfortunately, I can't see eBay links until later tonight. They're blocked here. But most eBay seller use stock photos that don't actually represent the actual spacer you're getting.

I'll try to take a look when I get home.

 

[angus]

you don't have enough material on the spacer to make a hubring that's structurally sound enough to hold the load of the wheel.

Just wanted to note that the hub does not hold any load, it it merely there to center the wheel during installation, the load is taken by the wheel being tightened against the face of the rotor.

Now on with the thread:

Kics makes 10mm spacers with integrated studs, if you want the hub rings, the rings can be ordered in 15mm and cut down (does not even require a machinist since cutting them does not effect the runout)

 

[Hapa88]

Just wanted to note that the hub does not hold any load, it it merely there to center the wheel during installation, the load is taken by the wheel being tightened against the face of the rotor.

Are you sure about that?

About.com says this:
http://tires.about.com/od/understanding_wheels/a/hub-centric-vs-lug-centric-wheels.htm

Hub-Centric:

Nearly all OEM Wheels are designed to be hub-centric. The automaker designs an OEM wheel to fit on a certain car or range of cars. The center bore of the wheel is sized to fit perfectly onto the axle of that car. This is a hub-centric connection, as the wheel is centered by it's connection to the axle hub. The lugnuts hold the wheel firmly to the mounting plate, but it is the wheel-to-axle connection that actually holds the weight of the car. This is quite an important distinction, as the lugnuts are designed to handle lateral forces that push the wheel away from the mounting plate. The forces that the hub and center bore connection are designed to withstand – the weight of the car forcing downward and impacts forcing upward – are at right angles to the forces that the lugnuts are designed for.

Tirerack.com says this:
http://www.tirerack.com/FAQ/results.jsp?category=Wheels

What is the purpose of centering rings? Are they required?

Some wheels are designed to fit multiple vehicle models and will use a centering ring system to reduce the bore size to match the hubs of different vehicles. These rings help to keep the wheel precisely centered on the vehicle hub as the lug hardware is torqued down. The clamping force of the lug hardware in the lug seats is what mechanically centers and secures the wheel in place on the hub.

 

[vf2ss]

Unfortunately, I can't see eBay links until later tonight. They're blocked here. But most eBay seller use stock photos that don't actually represent the actual spacer you're getting.

I'll try to take a look when I get home.

Ah...here's the pics for them and the specs:

H&R Part Number: 2065640
Ichiba Part Nu,ber: AC-50610
Style: DRS
Width: 10MM
Thread: 12x1.5
Bolt Pattern: 5X114.3
Center Bore: 64.1
Bolt/Stud: STUD (extended)

 

[vf2ss]

Kics makes 10mm spacers with integrated studs, if you want the hub rings, the rings can be ordered in 15mm and cut down (does not even require a machinist since cutting them deos not effect the runout)

I'd prefer not to use integrated studs as I understand at 15mm or less, I would have to have my oem studs shortened since my aftermarket wheels do not have a space/groove for them to go into. Since I'd need to do that, I'd rather just get the extended studs pressed in, in which case I am still wondering if either of these [1] or [2] would do the job? Thanks

 

[angus]

I'd prefer not to use integrated studs as I understand at 15mm or less, I would have to have my oem studs shortened since my aftermarket wheels do not have a space/groove for them to go into. Since I'd need to do that, I'd rather just get the extended studs pressed in, in which case I am still wondering if either of these [1] or [2] would do the job? Thanks

I would say that either of those will work on the rear.

 

[angus]

Are you sure about that?

About.com says this:
http://tires.about.com/od/understanding_wheels/a/hub-centric-vs-lug-centric-wheels.htm


Tirerack.com says this:
http://www.tirerack.com/FAQ/results.jsp?category=Wheels

Yes, I am sure - ever since I was 12 years old I was told that the lugnuts are what is important, just as it says on the tire rack link - it is the lugnuts that clamp the wheels on, the hub is there to center things - remember, there are many factory cars that do not have hubcentric wheels and those wheels stay on just fine - I think the about.com explanation is just trying to simplify things.

 

[davidf]

A note to those that are'nt aware. Aftermarket wheels and stock NSX lugnuts don't mix well. I had a front end shake for years I could'nt cure till I got the proper lugnuts. New lugnuts, I was like /:biggrin:.

 

[Hapa88]

A note to those that are'nt aware. Aftermarket wheels and stock NSX lugnuts don't mix well. I had a front end shake for years I could'nt cure till I got the proper lugnuts. New lugnuts, I was like /:biggrin:.

Yes, NSX stock lug nuts have "ball"/'round"/"radius" seat.

Most aftermarket wheels require a "cone"/"tapered"/"acorn" seat. Do not mix them.

 

[davidf]

Yes, NSX stock lug nuts have "ball"/'round"/"radius" seat.

Most aftermarket wheels require a "cone"/"tapered"/"acorn" seat. Do not mix them.

Had I known this years ago. I cant count the times my car went in for tire "rebalance" for no reason.:redface:

 

[vf2ss]

Just wanted to post an update and follow up with the install which was successful and gave the desired results. I decided to go with the H&R's since they are a one piece with a built in hub ring opposed to the Ichiba's which are two-piece. The spacer's bore fit perfectly over the hub, the built in hub ring in the spacer was a snug-fit mount for my aftermarket wheels + hubcentric rings.

A couple mentions for those considering this option that I learned:

1. Before installing the extended studs, I wondered if I choose not to run the spacers if my (closed-face) spline drive nuts would still be able to be used or, would I need to use open face or extended lug nuts. Answer: My spline drive nuts (for aftermarket wheels which davidf so carefully pointed out :wink which were purchased from SOS work just fine. With the extended lugs installed I get 9 full turns w/spacers and of course many more w/out spacers with room to spare in the lug nut itself.

2. Although many vendors do not carry a 10mm spacer for the NSX, it is not because it won't work or doesn't exist for the NSX. I spoke with a couple of vendors on prime and it was finally explained to me over the phone by one of them that most people either just need a 5mm or 15mm, 20mm, etc.; 10mm is just a really uncommon size w/that bore and bolt pattern but it will work...and yes, it is the same specs that fit on the S2000 rear.

Thanks again for everyones help and input.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

Reviving this thread for a follow up question: if you install 10mm longer extended studs will a closed end (not tuner style long one but regular lug nut) still fit on their if you don't run a spacer? The lug bolts would be sticking out another 10mm is why I ask, obviously pertinent information if you ever run wheels without the spacer because otherwise you can't tighten them all the way. I suspect a 5mm may work either way though.

Also, where did you buy the 10mm longer studs and spacers?

 

[docjohn]

I have the comptech extended studs on the rear of my car and I need a 5mm spacer to use regular closed lugs so as not to run out of lug nut.....If I don't use the spacer then i need the open tuner style nuts.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

Thanks Doc, that is good to know. Also there are a variety of lug but options that you could run without resorting to open face nuts I believe. They make closed face tuner style in varying lengths.