What would you have done different? (with video)

RYU

RYU

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This vid is a repost. Just using it for illustration purposes. I've tracked previous cars but i'm a still a rookie at best. Always eager to learn. Planning a trip with the NSX out to Chuckwalla soon.

What would you have done differently? What did this guy do wrong?

I've never been in this situation (luckily) but that's probably due to me being too conservative. I'd rather push the front out of a turn than go into it too hot and have the rear swing around or the have the front brakes lock mid turn.

Video said it was his first lap so tires must be cold. From the looks of it don't think that would have helped, or would it?
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He apexed the turn WAY too early and then tried to tighten it up causing the rear to slide. The ironic thing is he still had plenty of room on the outside and all had to do was unwind the wheel a bit instead of holding it in or tightening it up. Not to mention - I have many, many track days under my belt, and even on street tires, I take 2 full laps to not only warm the tires up but more importantly ---- myself.

Probably looked like this inside. :)
 
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exactly,every novice should have an instructer in car reminding them proper lines/inputs.Students never realize that the car drives just fine at the edge of the track...or even with two wheels on the grass as long as the front wheels are pointed straight .....seat time and good instruction usualy prevent these types of things.
 
Every track day I have done they always tell us before the first session "remember, cold tires, cold brain, cold track". Not to say it would have mattered much in this situation but still no reason to be that aggressive on the warm up lap.
 
Looks like he let off the throttle when he started to drift and turned the wheel left trying to bring the car around, or so he thought.

I would think he should have kept the car pointing right where it was, wheels straight ahead, up the track, without turning the wheel to the left and given it more throttle, even and steady until the car pulled out of it.
 
pbassjo said:
Looks like he let off the throttle when he started to drift
Click to expand...

bingo... most common rookie mistake by far... once a car starts sliding the rear end it usually scares a person who is new to tracking. Their immediate reaction is to abruptly let off the throttle, big mistake as that will 'snap' the car in the other direction.

Key is to keep the throttle going and power slide out, even if too much throttle you would have a better outcome than abruptly letting off.

keep throttle in, counter steer.... power out & keep going.

n
 
nils said:
bingo... most common rookie mistake by far... once a car starts sliding the rear end it usually scares a person who is new to tracking. Their immediate reaction is to abruptly let off the throttle, big mistake as that will 'snap' the car in the other direction.

Key is to keep the throttle going and power slide out, even if too much throttle you would have a better outcome than abruptly letting off.

keep throttle in, counter steer.... power out & keep going.

n
Click to expand...
You're not driving an AWD car anymore... Those inputs could get you in alot of trouble.


0.02
 
stuntman said:
You're not driving an AWD car anymore... Those inputs could get you in alot of trouble.


0.02
Click to expand...

If the problem was how he entered the corner, what should he have done once he began to drift/slide to get out of trouble?
 
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pbassjo said:
If the problem was how he entered the corner, what should he have done once he began to drift/slide to get out of trouble?
Click to expand...

Way too slow to counter-counter-steer. In an oversteer condition and you correct, in this case by turning the wheel back to the left, when the car stops rotating where are the front wheels pointed and the weight loaded? The front wheels are pointed to the left. The springs are loaded on the driver's side. When the car stops rotating, the springs unload and throw the weight to the other side of the car. So, what happens? Combine the weight transfer, and more importantly the wheels pointing to the outside, and you get the ol' tank-slap the other direction.

Very important to correct, then very quickly, almost before you think you need to, begin unwinding back the other way. If (s)he had done that when the car was in the middle of the slide after initial correction it would have been a nice drift, not a terminated NSX. I know it's described as "CPR": Correct, Pause, Recover, but the pause in some cases needs to be very short or non-existent.

The recovery portion of catching a slide after the initial correction might not be intuitive but is needed. Slow hands entering and exiting corners, fast hands when in trouble.
 
dquarasr2 said:
Way too slow to counter-counter-steer. In an oversteer condition and you correct, in this case by turning the wheel back to the left, when the car stops rotating where are the front wheels pointed and the weight loaded? The front wheels are pointed to the left. The springs are loaded on the driver's side. When the car stops rotating, the springs unload and throw the weight to the other side of the car. So, what happens? Combine the weight transfer, and more importantly the wheels pointing to the outside, and you get the ol' tank-slap the other direction.

Very important to correct, then very quickly, almost before you think you need to, begin unwinding back the other way. If (s)he had done that when the car was in the middle of the slide after initial correction it would have been a nice drift, not a terminated NSX. I know it's described as "CPR": Correct, Pause, Recover, but the pause in some cases needs to be very short or non-existent.

The recovery portion of catching a slide after the initial correction might not be intuitive but is needed. Slow hands entering and exiting corners, fast hands when in trouble.
Click to expand...
+1

I don't necessarily think the initial correction (countersteer) was too slow, although as you mentioned, quicker hands would have reduced the yaw angle and severity of the slide.

As you said: Correct Pause Recover

Correct: The slide, by countersteering into the direction of the slide. If the car keep sliding, keep adding more and more countersteering input until you reach the rack-stops. . The sooner you can sense the back end stepping out (or better yet: anticipate it sliding) the quicker you will correct and stop the slide and the less steering input needed to save the slide.

Pause: The period where you have to wait for the rear tires to regain grip. If it is a big slide, you might run out of steering lock and have to be patient to either (1) pass the point of no return and then put both feet in (clutch and brake) or (2) save the slide and the rear of the car regains traction.

Recover: Once you have saved the slide, now your front tires are pointed in the wrong direction from where you want to go. As dquarasr2 said, now the driver in the videos front tires are pointed left at the wall, and with the slide saved, now the car (in addition to spring energy weight transfer) drives to the left in a very quick way. Once you save the slide, RECOVER by steering back into the direction you want to head in -very quickly.

****CPR will be natural, the correction-pause-recovery will 9 out of 10 times be the right amount and for the right length of time IF YOU STAY FOCUSED ON LOOKING WHERE YOU WANT TO GO THE ENTIRE TIME.

Look for hope, not reality. It is very counter-intuitive to look where you want to go and not the direction you are sliding in. The driver in the video was most likely looking at the wall on the left. He saved the slide and it wasn't that dramatic. The problem was he was looking to the left which he then drove himself to hook-spin the car in that direction. If he was looking down the straight the entire time, he would have saved the slide and not have been in the fence.

You tend to go where you look whether its riding a bike, hitting a baseball, or driving a car. If you look at the wall, you will hit the wall. Look where you want to go regardless of the direction you are sliding in or what the car is doing.



0.02
 
stuntman said:
+1

I don't necessarily think the initial correction (countersteer) was too slow, although as you mentioned, quicker hands would have reduced the yaw angle and severity of the slide.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the concurrence. I didn't think the initial correction was too slow. What I had actually written was that the counter-counter-steer was too slow, or as you explained it, the Recovery was too slow.

When the car stops rotating, that's when you've got to be very fast with your hands back the other way.

Very good comments about keeping the eyes where you want to go.

A few years ago, when they moved the Jersey barrier wall narrowing the backstretch at Sebring, making Turn 16 a car-eating place, I had a, um, moment there. I started to get power oversteer so I counter-steered . I made an exaggerated move to ensure that if I was going to go off I'd go off on the grass to the outside rather than oversteer into the wall on the inside. But after I caught it, without even thinking about it I whipped my hands back the other way to avoid that tank-slap, and don't you know it, I ended up pointed exactly straight down the straightaway, situation avoided.
 
Interesting answer. I've looked at the vid over and over and it seemed to me he didn't get into really bad trouble until he counter steered and seemingly lifted off the throttle.

It looked like the front wheels were pointing straight down the track before he counter steered and I thought if he kept on the throttle and even added a steady throttle to help plant the car he would have pushed the car forward in the direction the wheels were pointing. A perfect drift.

It looked like the back never came around enough to need to counter steer, the car looked like it was pointed down track.

I don't have the track expertise you fellows do though, and I of course defer to your judgment.:wink: Sincere thanks for the lesson.:smile:
 
stuntman said:
You're not driving an AWD car anymore... Those inputs could get you in alot of trouble.


0.02
Click to expand...

the nsx isnt a awd car...? ...crap :biggrin:

edit: .. just watched the vid again.. yea .. ur right billy, there was no throttle in that turn past apex... he just turned car into wall.. ouch!!

happy 4th everyone!
 
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It looked liked he was on stock suspension. I'm guessing this because of the amount of body roll. I hear many on here (including you Billy) saying that some body roll isn't bad. Did the excessive body roll on this car aggravate his situation?
 
ryu said:
Did the excessive body roll on this car aggravate his situation?
Click to expand...

Ooo! OOOOOh! Let me answer!
42-16298745.jpg



Yes!
When the car rolled over that aggravated his situation.:biggrin:
 
Joe man you are on fire....racist lol...anyway you steppin up to post in a warrior thread:wink:
 

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