What HID kit to get for your NSX or ANY cars?

[whiteNSXs]

Hi Guys,
I sell a HID kit for the NSX and this kit is based on a Mcculloch kit which I think is an excellent kit with the quality worthy to be used in a NSX. However, the generic Mcculloch kits are also among the more expensive aftermarket kits out there with a typical price of $250 on eBay currently. I have been buying small number of kits for the past 4 years and added my own custom parts and modifications so that the Mcculloch kit will go into the NSX with ease and can be uninstalled in a snap. I chose Mcculloch and started using it in 2003 based on its excellent reviews and the fact that they were also the base kit for the very well received SOS HID kit. Also, it is completely waterproof and has advance circuitry to protect reversed polarity, overheat, and against excessive current draw. No extra relay is needed due to its low 3 amperes current draw and its low initial start up draw. With the generic Mcculloch kit, I add about $45 worth of extra parts on top of the kit plus about 2 hours of hand labor to modify it. I price the resultant "whiteNSXs" kit at $349. With the flood of many cheap Chinese kits, HID prices have dropped a lot. I have been looking for high quality but cheaper alternative so that I can use that cheaper brand so to lower the price of my kit. The only requirement that I have for the kit is that it absolutely needs to be in very high quality with advanced circuitry protection. Afterall, I have no affiliation with Mcculloch nor am I a dealer. I have no stake with it. I build my kits as a hobby and make the money with my labor. I can easily use another brand as long as it is in high quality and cost effective.
I came across with this thread http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89408
and the name "Mcculloch" is criticized as an inferior kit which "failed" the author's definition of a "good" kit. As a consumer and a fellow NSXer, I do feel that Clifford's statements are highly inaccurate and misleading. We have all heard horror stories about some cheaply made HID kits that blow out your stock wiring. All high quality ballasts with the advanced circuitry and high quality components do not do that. The current draws are steady and low. There is no need for an external harness. This is actually a desirable feature for a good kit so the installation is much cleaner and simpler. Only the very cheaply made kits with outdated circuitry such as those copycat Philips knock-off ballast will need to have external harnesses. These cheap kits are exactly the culprits in those horror stories so they absolutely require the external harness to prevent frying your cars.
Second, the 2 piece design with separate ignitor and ballasts is actually a more desirable design. Philips ballast was NEVER marketed as an aftermarket conversion kit. The so called Philips HID kits are actually people buying the Philips ballasts and modify them for there own kits. The problem with the Philips ballast is that it is very bulky so it does not fit many specific applications. The true aftermarket HID manufacturers fixed that problem by separating the smaller ignitors from the bigger ballast so that the ignitor/bulb end can fit in the tiniest spaces. The one piece design is NOT a better design but really just a knock-off of the now very outdated original Philips ballast design.

Honestly, I do not know how good or bad Clifford's kits are. But I really don't think they are superior to the Mcculloch kits as Clifford want you to believe. What I know for sure is that they are made in Southern part of China with different labels and packaging. They are marketed as at least 12 different brands and are among the lowest priced HID kits available with a typical price of $80 shipped on eBay.
As I said before, I am looking for less expensive high quality alternative as the base component for my kit. If anyone has any good feedback for any other kit, please let me know so I can slash the price of my kits. For now I am sticking with the proven Mcculloch kits.
Regards,
Steve

 

[Malibu Rapper]

Honestly, I do not know how good or bad Clifford's kits are. But I really don't think they are superior to the Mcculloch kits as Clifford want you to believe. What I know for sure is that they are made in Southern part of China with different labels and packaging. They are marketed as at least 12 different brands and are among the lowest priced HID kits available with a typical price of $80 shipped on eBay.
As I said before, I am looking for less expensive high quality alternative as the base component for my kit. If anyone has any good feedback for any other kit, please let me know so I can slash the price of my kits. For now I am sticking with the proven Mcculloch kits.
Regards,
Steve

I run Cliffud's kit in my daily driver. It's well proven with hundreds of buyers in other forums, many more than any kit anyone has sold for the NSX. I have yet to hear anyone say anything bad about the kit. The fact that it is a sealed kit that comes with relay harnesses and everything you need to install it makes it a very nice kit. Anyone who has worked in the 12v industry knows the importance of powering ballasts with relays. Have people fried their wiring by using kits without relays? Yes, and even true with McCulloch kits. Unless a ballast can be deemed foolproof from ever drawing more than the maximum amount of current safe for your wiring, you should always use a relay. I'd advise picking safety over convenience. Even the guys over at the HIDplanet forums would advise this with any kit. I've owned a stereo shop in a past life and performed installations for show cars alike - relays, fuses, good grounds, properly sized wires are all things you must do and do well for safety's sake.

There are cheap kits on eBay but you will pay for high shipping costs and/or poor support. You can reach Cliffud on his cell phone and have replacement ballasts or bulbs quickly, he has a reputation to live up to if he wants to do business. Read some of the support horror stories of the cheap eBay kits on Hidplanet.

Regarding the Philips kit, I have one in my NSX now which I paid about $600 for. It's not bulky, especially not the new generation ballast which is the same style ballast other companies are calling digital ballasts. The separate igniter ballasts are just as bulky when you consider the igniter and the wiring. I have the older LVQ-212 Gen3 ballasts and they fit great underneath the headlamp cover. Size is not the problem for the kits with the NSX. The problem is exposure to the elements as most places you put the ballast will get wet when if you washed your car. The Philips ballast is not sealed and that's why when mine go out, I will not hesitate to replace them with Cliffud's kit.

I've done comparisons with my Philips 6000k kit vs the McCulloch 6000k kit and it was night and day difference in light output. I was surprised it was that bad. PVMike spent $60 and got 2 new bulbs from Cliffud and the different is now night and day. I'd highly advise anyone who has a McCulloch kit to spend the $60 and see the difference.

We all know now that you can buy HID kits and not have to spend a lot of money. You need to temper that with quality and support. Will you get a quality kit and will you get replacement parts when you need them? Or do you have to wait for some kid who sells them out of his garage to send a ballast back to China before you can get a replacement? I know I'm not going to spend $600 for HID kits again, I'm plenty happy with Cliffud's kit and would recommend it to anyone.

 

[whiteNSXs]

I run Cliffud's kit in my daily driver. It's well proven with hundreds of buyers in other forums, many more than any kit anyone has sold for the NSX. I have yet to hear anyone say anything bad about the kit. The fact that it is a sealed kit that comes with relay harnesses and everything you need to install it makes it a very nice kit. Anyone who has worked in the 12v industry knows the importance of powering ballasts with relays. Have people fried their wiring by using kits without relays? Yes, and even true with McCulloch kits. Unless a ballast can be deemed foolproof from ever drawing more than the maximum amount of current safe for your wiring, you should always use a relay. I'd advise picking safety over convenience. Even the guys over at the HIDplanet forums would advise this with any kit. I've owned a stereo shop in a past life and performed installations for show cars alike - relays, fuses, good grounds, properly sized wires are all things you must do and do well for safety's sake.

There are cheap kits on eBay but you will pay for high shipping costs and/or poor support. You can reach Cliffud on his cell phone and have replacement ballasts or bulbs quickly, he has a reputation to live up to if he wants to do business. Read some of the support horror stories of the cheap eBay kits on Hidplanet.

Regarding the Philips kit, I have one in my NSX now which I paid about $600 for. It's not bulky, especially not the new generation ballast which is the same style ballast other companies are calling digital ballasts. The separate igniter ballasts are just as bulky when you consider the igniter and the wiring. I have the older LVQ-212 Gen3 ballasts and they fit great underneath the headlamp cover. Size is not the problem for the kits with the NSX. The problem is exposure to the elements as most places you put the ballast will get wet when if you washed your car. The Philips ballast is not sealed and that's why when mine go out, I will not hesitate to replace them with Cliffud's kit.

I've done comparisons with my Philips 6000k kit vs the McCulloch 6000k kit and it was night and day difference in light output. I was surprised it was that bad. PVMike spent $60 and got 2 new bulbs from Cliffud and the different is now night and day. I'd highly advise anyone who has a McCulloch kit to spend the $60 and see the difference.

We all know now that you can buy HID kits and not have to spend a lot of money. You need to temper that with quality and support. Will you get a quality kit and will you get replacement parts when you need them? Or do you have to wait for some kid who sells them out of his garage to send a ballast back to China before you can get a replacement? I know I'm not going to spend $600 for HID kits again, I'm plenty happy with Cliffud's kit and would recommend it to anyone.

I have to disagree that all HID kits need to have a separate relay for power. Good quality kits especially have design parameters that suit the typical headlight wiring power rating. In the case of the NSX, each headlight has a fuse of 20A and the wiring itself is appropriately rated even higher. (the fuse rating is ALWAYS lower than the wire). As far as the initial current draw from most good quality kit, it is somewhere between 7 to 8 amp and it is short lived. The steady current soon drops back to 3 amp. At any point it is no where near the power handling limit of even the fuse.
You have posted a few times comparing the colors of the Mcculloch kit and the Philips kit. Not only the light intensities do not differ significantly, nor the "color" better than one another, why is it all of a sudden that the light output is night and day? I have seen many kits before choosing the Mcculloch and I don't see any major difference in light outputs among different kits. Most 4300k bulbs are rated around 3000 lumens, I have yet seen a Mercedes Benz, BMW, Lexus, or any OEM car that show a significant difference in the intensities of most HID kits, let alone the intensities among the HID aftermarket kits. Your claim of "night and day" difference really needs to be substantiated as I feel that it is really baseless. Really, anyone can make any claims about anything but there is only one truth.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showpost.php?p=501225&postcount=1
I tried to dig out the pictures you posted a while back but they are no longer there.
Also, lumens are measured values and the actual perceived difference is the function of log which means that there has to be a substantial difference in lumens before one can even see any perceivable difference in intensities.
I would really like to use Clifford's $80 Chinese kit as my base kit if it really lives up to your claims about its "night and day" intensity and quality. My fear is that the truth is not the case.
If you really think that Cliff's $199 kit is really that good, then I think people are paying WAY too much for it from Cliff as it is the same kit that is sold on eBay routinely for $85 shipped. PVMIKE paid $60 for just the bulbs? For $25 more he could have bought the entire kit. I am very sorry about PVMike's bulb failure and I would have fixed the situation for him before he bought the bulbs.
I am not promoting any kit but just to set some myths straight. I don't care if I sell another Mcculloch kit since the money that I made from a kit is inconsequential but I truly enjoy it as a hobby so to be active in this community. It is a free market. If someone really wants to spend $199 on the very same kit sold on eBay for $85, it is totally fine. But I certainly will feel bad for him as a fellow NSXer if he really thinks he is getting a good deal and a superior product.
Steve

 

[Malibu Rapper]

I have to disagree that all HID kits need to have a separate relay for power. Good quality kits especially have design parameters that suit the typical headlight wiring power rating. In the case of the NSX, each headlight has a fuse of 20A and the wiring itself is appropriately rated even higher. (the fuse rating is ALWAYS lower than the wire). As far as the initial current draw from most good quality kit, it is somewhere between 7 to 8 amp and it is short lived. The steady current soon drops back to 3 amp. At any point it is no where near the power handling limit of even the fuse.

So you can say with absolute certainty your kit will never draw more current than what the OEM headlamps are rated for? What testing have you done to make claim? So you are certain that the power wire going into the ballast cannot short? It is the fact that these things can and do happen that you should always take precautions. A while back, I read on HIDplanet about a guy who had a McCulloch kit that fried his wiring, I'll try to find it again but I thought about linking the thread here. Regardless, using relays to power devices from the battery is always safer. Doing anything else is just lazy.

You have posted a few times comparing the colors of the Mcculloch kit and the Philips kit. Not only the light intensities do not differ significantly, nor the "color" better than one another, why is it all of a sudden that the light output is night and day?

I have seen many kits before choosing the Mcculloch and I don't see any major difference in light outputs among different kits. Most 4300k bulbs are rated around 3000 lumens, I have yet seen a Mercedes Benz, BMW, Lexus, or any OEM car that show a significant difference in the intensities of most HID kits, let alone the intensities among the HID aftermarket kits. Your claim of "night and day" difference really needs to be substantiated as I feel that it is really baseless. Really, anyone can make any claims about anything but there is only one truth.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showpost.php?p=501225&postcount=1
I tried to dig out the pictures you posted a while back but they are no longer there.

When the forums were upgraded, for some reason my pic links got messed up. It's sad because a lot of my posts are kinda screwed up now. They are still in my gallery though, I did not pull them. I'll post a pic below. Keep in mind I have no skill with a camera, I can only point and shoot and I took the pictures with a 4 year old point and shoot camera. The pictures really don't capture the differences as much as they are apparent to the eye. Your kit on the left, Philips on the right.

The biggest difference is when you see the kits in person and when it lights up the road. That green blue tint on your kit pales in comparison to the Philips Ultinon on my car. Honestly, the color and brightness of his McCulloch bulbs made his car look like it was running those HID look-a-like halogen bulbs. If my observation and the observation of the owner of your kit doesn't mean anything then I don't know what to say. The bulbs are no longer on Mike's car since one of them burned out and he replaced them with Cliffud's. Otherwise I would bring it out to the SCA meet where we could gather more opinions. Anyone who owns a McCulloch 6000k kit, drop the $60 and find out for yourself...

Really, if you really think that Cliff's kit is really that good, then I think people are paying WAY too much for it from Cliff as it is the same kit that is sold on eBay routinely for $80 shipped. PVMIKE paid $60 for just the bulbs? For $20 more he could have bought the entire kit. It might be a good kit as you have said but I think the mark up is simply excessive for being a "special" for the NSX community.
Steve

Honestly, I wasn't going to reply to this thread at all. Did you notice in my original McCulloch vs Philips thread, I never made any mention of the kit in the pictures being the kit that you sell? I did that out of respect for your sales but I wanted Primers to be informed as well. But for you to call out Cliffud specifically I thought was pretty lame and classless. Insulting someone else's product to promote yours, really now, that's pretty lame. Cliffud never made any mention of you in his post either. He made valid observations on the McCulloch kit, not you. For the record, I have no affiliation or business interests with Cliffud. I've never even met the guy. I bought a kit from him and I am pleased with the kit and can recommend it to anyone, it's the only kit I happily recommend for the NSX.

Again, I recommend to anyone installing HID kits to use a relay kit regardless of the kit you use. It is SAFER. HID is high voltage and being safe is a good thing.

 

[cliffud]

Hi Guys,

I just noticed this thread and while I don't mind the "playful" jabs from WhiteNSXs I thought I would chime in to clarify a few things. By the way - thanks Malibu for vouching for my kits. I'll be honest, I haven't ever purchased one but I've helped enough McCulloch owners fix their kits and this is what I've noticed.

1) The McCulloch kit doesn't come with a wire harness that connects directly to the battery. The ballast itself has one connection drawing power from the OEM headlight plug and the other connection sending power to the ignitor and in turn to the bulb. To the best of my knowledge, and from what I see in the pictures below, no extra parts are needed to connect these to your OEM headlight plug. The only thing you'd need to do is modify the dust cap to accommodate the wires so you can pull power from the OEM harness. If you want to splice a few things up, you can always tap into the power going to the headlight before it goes into the actual housing but we all know splicing isn't much fun.

Here are a couple of random images I found online of the McCulloch kit.

In the second image, at the top, do you see the two little shimmering metal spade connections? Those actually plug into the black 9006 plugs that are sitting in between the ballasts and in turn, those plug into your factory headlight plug.

These McCulloch kits seem ready to rock and roll right out of the box!


2) As I mentioned before, I haven't ever purchased a clone of the McCulloch kit or the actual McCulloch kit but if these kits are ready to go right out of the box, I'm not sure where the additional $45 worth of extra parts and 2 hours of labor come into play here. Care to post some pics?

With the generic Mcculloch kit, I add about $45 worth of extra parts on top of the kit plus about 2 hours of hand labor to modify it. I price the resultant "whiteNSXs" kit at 349.

I am sure your time is valuable so of course, you should be paid for your hard work. However, if you'd like to streamline your operations while keeping in line with something McCulloch-ish as you mention below...

I am looking for less expensive high quality alternative as the base component for my kit. If anyone has any good feedback for any other kit, please let me know so I can slash the price of my kits. For now I am sticking with the proven Mcculloch kits.

... then allow me to suggest several distributors ($250 example, $240 example, and another $240 example) that offer the real McCulloch kit for less. In fact, this NSX member picked his up for $300 on eBay 3 years ago. Thus - it looks lke there is some room to mark up these kits and resell them if you wish. If you want steeper discounts and want to pick up kits from me, I'm open to wholesale opportunities. I bring them in pallets at a time so if you want something, just let me know.

3) As far as not having a wiring harness. I firmly believe there's no excuse to not have a wire harness. There are some people who insist that it is not needed and I refuse to believe that simply because I've seen way too many botched HID installations where something failed due to not getting the proper level of power. In fact, for those people who insist a wire harness is not needed - why is this McCulloch HID distributor on VWVortex.com doing a write up of adding a wire harness?

To save you from clicking - here's what he says:

I began selling some mcculloch hid kits and a few people including myself ran into a problem with the aftermarket kit. The lights would flicker on and off repeatedly as if it wasn’t receiving enough power to ignite the ballast. I couldn’t exactly pinpoint where the problem was. Whether it was the oem relay or the small gauge oem wires. I kept sending kits back to the manufacturer thinking it was a defective ballast until Doug (slammedvwgolf) suggested the fore mentioned problem. I researched it online and it proved true.

Adding an independent relay can either fix a problem or avoid problems in the future. It’s very necessary if your hid kit is aftermarket, may not be necessary for oem kits. In my opinion I rather feed the ballasts their own juice straight from the battery since these cars weren’t designed for high intensity discharged lighting.

Ok enough yapping.. here’s the how-to...

Well, that sounds pretty clear to me why a wire harness is needed and it sounds like what I've always shared on here and other boards. In fact, that is probably why these NSX Prime members had their McCulloch ballasts fail. Example 1 and Example 2.

4) WhiteNSXs, I'll admit it - you have an odd way of being nice.

If you really think that Cliff's $199 kit is really that good, then I think people are paying WAY too much for it from Cliff as it is the same kit that is sold on eBay routinely for $85 shipped.

As far as claiming that I am ripping people off on here... It would be easy for me to be offended but I'll take the moral high road and explain how it all works. Also, trust me, those kits for $85 shipped are not the same ones that I offer. Try them out and see - I did and here are just a few of the many that I tried.

And just to clarify, the base kit is $190 shipped. :smile:

I offer HID conversion kits on a wholesale basis to shops all over the country which is why I can offer them at such a low price. The key is volume and scalability. And yes, it is a low price considering my distributors mark them up to the $300-400 range. It's easy when you consider the rubber filled ballasts, the nice packaging, the extensive wire harness with a relay and fuse wired inline, and the general plug and play format.

I operate on volume and the reliability of my kits is quite high which allows me to offer a pleasant no questions asked warranty to replace a ballast, an errant bulb, to cover shipping, etc. I won't claim my kits never fail but I will say that the failure rate is very low and that is where I get to eek out a smidget of pocket change to keep this fun and rewarding. By the way, like yourself, playing with lights isn't my real job - I do it for fun and I'm actually a product manager for a software development team at a fairly well known internet company. I won't mention it but trust me, you've heard of us. Coz knows. :smile:

So imagine the rubber injected ballasts, the extensive wire harness, the shipping and paypal fees, and the 1-year warranty all for $190. Not to mention that packed into every kit is a very detailed set of color instructions along with a customized wire harness to specifically fit an NSX. Some like to say it's a bunch of hub bub but honestly- if the NSX was made by hand, why wouldn't you want to put the same care and planning into modding it??

Well, it's almost 5am so I'm going to head to bed. If any of you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me at clifford(AT)mobilehid.com or give me a call or text me at 602.300.7153

Thanks!

Clifford

 

[whiteNSXs]

So you can say with absolute certainty your kit will never draw more current than what the OEM headlamps are rated for? What testing have you done to make claim? So you are certain that the power wire going into the ballast cannot short? It is the fact that these things can and do happen that you should always take precautions. A while back, I read on HIDplanet about a guy who had a McCulloch kit that fried his wiring, I'll try to find it again but I thought about linking the thread here. Regardless, using relays to power devices from the battery is always safer. Doing anything else is just lazy.

Do you test every appliance of their current draw? Do you not know that the headlight wire is already fused and relayed? The factory wire has more than enough safety margin to handle the current draw. Do/will you add a relay for your Smartenna, GPS, radar detector, air pump, or anything? How do you know they are not drawing more power? I would like to see that "Mcculloch kit firing his wiring" thread too. What? He did not run a fuse and short his wires? Are you going to tell Erick that he is wrong and LAZY too for not using a relay for his Xetronic and other HID kits. It is really pointless to argue over this. As far as I am concern, I believe the truly high quality kits such as Mcculloch and Xetronic kits do not need an extra relay. For the cheapy kits, you do what you want.

When the forums were upgraded, for some reason my pic links got messed up. It's sad because a lot of my posts are kinda screwed up now. They are still in my gallery though, I did not pull them. I'll post a pic below. Keep in mind I have no skill with a camera, I can only point and shoot and I took the pictures with a 4 year old point and shoot camera. The pictures really don't capture the differences as much as they are apparent to the eye. Your kit on the left, Philips on the right.

The biggest difference is when you see the kits in person and when it lights up the road. That green blue tint on your kit pales in comparison to the Philips Ultinon on my car. Honestly, the color and brightness of his McCulloch bulbs made his car look like it was running those HID look-a-like halogen bulbs. If my observation and the observation of the owner of your kit doesn't mean anything then I don't know what to say. The bulbs are no longer on Mike's car since one of them burned out and he replaced them with Cliffud's. Otherwise I would bring it out to the SCA meet where we could gather more opinions. Anyone who owns a McCulloch 6000k kit, drop the $60 and find out for yourself....

I can see that your "Philips" bulbs are being reddish. There is no way that it is 6000k since by definition, 6000k is warmer/bluer than the 5600k flashlight. Your light looks more like a 4300k which is reddish/yellowish by comparison. I don't see your claim of "night and day" difference in intensity. I think they are comparable as I have consistently observed in many different HID, OEM and aftermarket.

Honestly, I wasn't going to reply to this thread at all. Did you notice in my original McCulloch vs Philips thread, I never made any mention of the kit in the pictures being the kit that you sell? I did that out of respect for your sales but I wanted Primers to be informed as well. But for you to call out Cliffud specifically I thought was pretty lame and classless. Insulting someone else's product to promote yours, really now, that's pretty lame. Cliffud never made any mention of you in his post either. He made valid observations on the McCulloch kit, not you. For the record, I have no affiliation or business interests with Cliffud. I've never even met the guy. I bought a kit from him and I am pleased with the kit and can recommend it to anyone, it's the only kit I happily recommend for the NSX.

Again, I recommend to anyone installing HID kits to use a relay kit regardless of the kit you use. It is SAFER. HID is high voltage and being safe is a good thing.

Talk about lame and classless, so far I have only seen you making "night and day" claims that are baseless.
The only reason I responded to Clifford's thread is because his misleading/wrong denouncing statements about HID kits that do not need external relays and the 2 piece design of many good kits such as Mcculloch and Xetronic. It is not to "insult his product to promote mine" as you instigated. If anyone that is "insulting others and promote his", it would be Clifford who turn around to claim the shortcoming of his kits as superior.
"It's the only kit I happily recommend for the NSX"!!!??? I don't know who else is insulting and promoting.

 

[whiteNSXs]

So you can say with absolute certainty your kit will never draw more current than what the OEM headlamps are rated for? What testing have you done to make claim? So you are certain that the power wire going into the ballast cannot short? It is the fact that these things can and do happen that you should always take precautions. A while back, I read on HIDplanet about a guy who had a McCulloch kit that fried his wiring, I'll try to find it again but I thought about linking the thread here. Regardless, using relays to power devices from the battery is always safer. Doing anything else is just lazy.



When the forums were upgraded, for some reason my pic links got messed up. It's sad because a lot of my posts are kinda screwed up now. They are still in my gallery though, I did not pull them. I'll post a pic below. Keep in mind I have no skill with a camera, I can only point and shoot and I took the pictures with a 4 year old point and shoot camera. The pictures really don't capture the differences as much as they are apparent to the eye. Your kit on the left, Philips on the right.

The biggest difference is when you see the kits in person and when it lights up the road. That green blue tint on your kit pales in comparison to the Philips Ultinon on my car. Honestly, the color and brightness of his McCulloch bulbs made his car look like it was running those HID look-a-like halogen bulbs. If my observation and the observation of the owner of your kit doesn't mean anything then I don't know what to say. The bulbs are no longer on Mike's car since one of them burned out and he replaced them with Cliffud's. Otherwise I would bring it out to the SCA meet where we could gather more opinions. Anyone who owns a McCulloch 6000k kit, drop the $60 and find out for yourself...

Honestly, I wasn't going to reply to this thread at all. Did you notice in my original McCulloch vs Philips thread, I never made any mention of the kit in the pictures being the kit that you sell? I did that out of respect for your sales but I wanted Primers to be informed as well. But for you to call out Cliffud specifically I thought was pretty lame and classless. Insulting someone else's product to promote yours, really now, that's pretty lame. Cliffud never made any mention of you in his post either. He made valid observations on the McCulloch kit, not you. For the record, I have no affiliation or business interests with Cliffud. I've never even met the guy. I bought a kit from him and I am pleased with the kit and can recommend it to anyone, it's the only kit I happily recommend for the NSX.

Again, I recommend to anyone installing HID kits to use a relay kit regardless of the kit you use. It is SAFER. HID is high voltage and being safe is a good thing.

Hi Guys,

I just noticed this thread and while I don't mind the "playful" jabs from WhiteNSXs I thought I would chime in to clarify a few things. By the way - thanks Malibu for vouching for my kits. I'll be honest, I haven't ever purchased one but I've helped enough McCulloch owners fix their kits and this is what I've noticed.

1) The McCulloch kit doesn't come with a wire harness that connects directly to the battery. The ballast itself has one connection drawing power from the OEM headlight plug and the other connection sending power to the ignitor and in turn to the bulb. To the best of my knowledge, and from what I see in the pictures below, no extra parts are needed to connect these to your OEM headlight plug. The only thing you'd need to do is modify the dust cap to accommodate the wires so you can pull power from the OEM harness. If you want to splice a few things up, you can always tap into the power going to the headlight before it goes into the actual housing but we all know splicing isn't much fun.

Here are a couple of random images I found online of the McCulloch kit.

In the second image, at the top, do you see the two little shimmering metal spade connections? Those actually plug into the black 9006 plugs that are sitting in between the ballasts and in turn, those plug into your factory headlight plug.

These McCulloch kits seem ready to rock and roll right out of the box!


2) As I mentioned before, I haven't ever purchased a clone of the McCulloch kit or the actual McCulloch kit but if these kits are ready to go right out of the box, I'm not sure where the additional $45 worth of extra parts and 2 hours of labor come into play here. Care to post some pics?



I am sure your time is valuable so of course, you should be paid for your hard work. However, if you'd like to streamline your operations while keeping in line with something McCulloch-ish as you mention below...



... then allow me to suggest several distributors ($250 example, $240 example, and another $240 example) that offer the real McCulloch kit for less. In fact, this NSX member picked his up for $300 on eBay 3 years ago. Thus - it looks lke there is some room to mark up these kits and resell them if you wish. If you want steeper discounts and want to pick up kits from me, I'm open to wholesale opportunities. I bring them in pallets at a time so if you want something, just let me know.

3) As far as not having a wiring harness. I firmly believe there's no excuse to not have a wire harness. There are some people who insist that it is not needed and I refuse to believe that simply because I've seen way too many botched HID installations where something failed due to not getting the proper level of power. In fact, for those people who insist a wire harness is not needed - why is this McCulloch HID distributor on VWVortex.com doing a write up of adding a wire harness?

To save you from clicking - here's what he says:



Well, that sounds pretty clear to me why a wire harness is needed and it sounds like what I've always shared on here and other boards. In fact, that is probably why these NSX Prime members had their McCulloch ballasts fail. Example 1 and Example 2.

4) WhiteNSXs, I'll admit it - you have an odd way of being nice.


As far as claiming that I am ripping people off on here... It would be easy for me to be offended but I'll take the moral high road and explain how it all works. Also, trust me, those kits for $85 shipped are not the same ones that I offer. Try them out and see - I did and here are just a few of the many that I tried.

And just to clarify, the base kit is $190 shipped. :smile:

I offer HID conversion kits on a wholesale basis to shops all over the country which is why I can offer them at such a low price. The key is volume and scalability. And yes, it is a low price considering my distributors mark them up to the $300-400 range. It's easy when you consider the rubber filled ballasts, the nice packaging, the extensive wire harness with a relay and fuse wired inline, and the general plug and play format.

I operate on volume and the reliability of my kits is quite high which allows me to offer a pleasant no questions asked warranty to replace a ballast, an errant bulb, to cover shipping, etc. I won't claim my kits never fail but I will say that the failure rate is very low and that is where I get to eek out a smidget of pocket change to keep this fun and rewarding. By the way, like yourself, playing with lights isn't my real job - I do it for fun and I'm actually a product manager for a software development team at a fairly well known internet company. I won't mention it but trust me, you've heard of us. Coz knows. :smile:

So imagine the rubber injected ballasts, the extensive wire harness, the shipping and paypal fees, and the 1-year warranty all for $190. Not to mention that packed into every kit is a very detailed set of color instructions along with a customized wire harness to specifically fit an NSX. Some like to say it's a bunch of hub bub but honestly- if the NSX was made by hand, why wouldn't you want to put the same care and planning into modding it??

Well, it's almost 5am so I'm going to head to bed. If any of you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me at clifford(AT)mobilehid.com or give me a call or text me at 602.300.7153

Thanks!

Clifford

Really, why don't you just post a picture of your kit and components and just let EVERYONE judge by him/herself whether the same kit is sold on eBay for $85. Talk about jabs, I have never said you ripped off anyone. I just don't agree with your sale tactics of turning good kits into bad kits such as features of not needing a external relay and the two piece design.
Everyone knows what a Mcculloch looks like and there is no secret how they are installed.
Go ahead, post a picture of your kit to clarify your claims. Prove me wrong.
Claiming youself as an expert in HID design and feature, may I even ask you why a 2 piece design was even conceived and marketed? What is that ONE limitation of any HID kit that caused most good manufacturers to change to a 2 piece design including Philips ballast? Why would Xetronic continue to remain a two piece design even with its tiny ballasts in its most expensive digital kit? Does it make it a bad kit in your book that it does not require an external relay either?
Steve

 

[cliffud]

Steve -

Wow man, you are pretty hostile for a guy who sells lights as a hobby. Take it easy man, we're all here to have fun. I've actually posted pics of my kit, the ballast operating under water, the rubber injected interior, and also how the kit is installed into the NSX.

I've never claimed myself to be an expert, all I actually talk about are my real world experiences with the HID kits that I've come across. I don't make personal attacks, I just look objectively at what's out there man. Chill out.

If you want to sell your kits and claim they are the "Best NSX HID kit" have at it man. I just don't think hooking up a kit without a dedicated power wiring harness is smart and I've already listed why and that McCulloch distributor on the VWVortex forum CLEARLY tells people why a wire harness is important. If you're too stubborn to believe that, I'm not sure what to tell you man.

What it all boils down to Steve is that I've done a lot of testing of various HID kits on the market and I have a proven track record of helping hundreds of people all over the world improve the light output on their vehicles at a great price. I like helping people - that's what it's all about man.

By the way, the Philips ballast is a tried and trusted platform for aftermarket HID conversion kits and I haven't actually seen a 2 piece design. If you have, I'd be interested in seeing some photos. As far as why the 2 piece designs are used, I'm sure it's great for applications where space is definitely an issue like on a motorcycle or something but it's clear that there's enough room behind the headlight to mount a single piece designed ballast and I don't see how a 2 piece ballast/ignitor combo may be easier to mount than a single piece. What I'd be worried about is making sure the extra wires in the 2 piece design doesn't get tangled in the moving platform of the NSX headlight.

Don't get me wrong man, whether or not it's a 2 piece or a single - it doesn't matter - the wiring is what is the issue. I even have HID flashlights that have a 2 piece ballast/ignitor setup inside and they work great!

And to be entirely honest - I agree with Malibu. This is the first time I've seen the pictures of the McCulloch light output compared with the Philips and wow, that green looks silly and there's no way I'd run that in my car.

Just my opinion. Haha!

Have a good weekend man.


Clifford

 

[Malibu Rapper]

Do you test every appliance of their current draw? Do you not know that the headlight wire is already fused and relayed? The factory wire has more than enough safety margin to handle the current draw. Do/will you add a relay for your Smartenna, GPS, radar detector, air pump, or anything? How do you know they are not drawing more power? I would like to see that "Mcculloch kit firing his wiring" thread too. What? He did not run a fuse and short his wires? Are you going to tell Erick that he is wrong and LAZY too for not using a relay for his Xetronic and other HID kits. It is really pointless to argue over this. As far as I am concern, I believe the truly high quality kits such as Mcculloch and Xetronic kits do not need an extra relay. For the cheapy kits, you do what you want.

Honestly, this is silly and I can't believe you would begin make the suggestion that one should compromise safety over convenience. First, did you ever notice that the McCulloch ballasts like most others are metal? I guess it doesn't bother you that metal is conductive and that things can go wrong inside of the ballast? Do you understand the dangers of high voltage? You can go ahead an call out Erick but I already made the suggestion that anyone who uses an HID kit should power their kit from the battery using a relay kit. In fact, this is a practice that is encouraged in even the newbie FAQ on HIDplanet. As for the McCulloch kit being high quality, search on HIDplanet.com an see what the owners and users think about them... You will see good and bad, but mostly bad.

I can see that your "Philips" bulbs are being reddish. There is no way that it is 6000k since by definition, 6000k is warmer/bluer than the 5600k flashlight. Your light looks more like a 4300k which is reddish/yellowish by comparison. I don't see your claim of "night and day" difference in intensity. I think they are comparable as I have consistently observed in many different HID, OEM and aftermarket.

You're seeing wrong. Maybe it's your monitor adjustment but on all my monitors(between work and home that makes 4), it looks UV around the fringes. Again, take this picture for what it's worth because barely know how to use a camera. This is the Ultinon kit as sold by HID-Online.

Talk about lame and classless, so far I have only seen you making "night and day" claims that are baseless.

My night and day claim is a comment to stress that the difference in usable light output is huge. I stick to that as well. But you got me, night and day is a figure of speech more than it is an accurate judgment being made as night and day would imply light vs dark. Is there a difference between your bulbs and Cliffud's bulbs? YES. I'll be willing to bet that 10 out of 10 people will prefer Cliffud's 6000k bulbs.

The only reason I responded to Clifford's thread is because his misleading/wrong denouncing statements about HID kits that do not need external relays and the 2 piece design of many good kits such as Mcculloch and Xetronic. It is not to "insult his product to promote mine" as you instigated. If anyone that is "insulting others and promote his", it would be Clifford who turn around to claim the shortcoming of his kits as superior.
"It's the only kit I happily recommend for the NSX"!!!??? I don't know who else is insulting and promoting.

First, regarding the ballast and igniter debate, the reason for this design difference is only because it allows for flexibility by giving you a greater cable run thus being able to do things like stick your ballast far away in a fender. Depending on your installation, a separate igniter can be good or bad. It's definitely not a shortcoming on his kit that it is integrated as I know I prefer to have them integrated for my cars. Save the space for the relays...

You proclaim that your kit is the best kit. Maybe that is where this attitude is coming from and the reason why you have your panties in a wad. How can the best kit not come with relays? You act like relays are a downfall and unnecessary. Can you not agree that it is safer? If not, are you saying that the rule of thumb advice given to everyone at HIDplanet to use relays is wrong? I think you should take this criticism as a way to improve your kit by including relays and at least that makes it debatable that your kit is the best. You can probably claim that your kits are the easiest to install and as everyone knows easy is not always safe. Your kits are great for people who cannot drill a hole in a dustcap and run some wires to the battery. But for anyone else with these capabilities, you can save some money and have a safer kit.

 

[whiteNSXs]

Huh,
I actually never proclaimed my kit is the best in any of my argument. Then I looked at my signature and realized that I put that statement a few years ago as a parody.
My apology. I have never thought the Mcculloch is the best nor mine. So my argument really was not based on that attitude at all.
Steve

PS. I will now remove the "Best" statement

 

[ffffanman]

I like mine that I bought locally, I'm not that good with bringing stuff up from the states and thought i would support the little local guy down the street. Any Ideas on the build of this kit or have you seen it before?
It sure is thin and went in pretty good but needed to reverse the polarity.
Just wondering.
Trev
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88535&highlight=trevs+hid

 

[demigod]

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/v2/play.php?id=93144

:tongue: :biggrin:

 

[Malibu Rapper]

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/v2/play.php?id=93144

:tongue: :biggrin:

That was a scene from that Michael Moore flick "Relaying for Malibu."

haha, nice one...

 

[demigod]

That was a scene from that Michael Moore flick "Relaying for Malibu."

haha, nice one...

Hehe..the fanta shokata ones were the best back in the days..

 

[Elite]

From those pics above, I like the one on the left better. The one on the right is way to purple. From my experience, the kits which have the color of the one on the left, you have more visibility on the road. As for technicals, I'll let you guys fight that one out.:tongue:

 

[MoogieBoogie]

I dont understand why anyone would want HIDs in any color other than white. The more color, the less light output. I would imagine that people are looking for that flicker - the color people see at the cutoff point of the projector. If this is the case, why not just retrofit HID projectors? With real HID projectors, you have light dispersed evenly across the driver's field of vision - not two concentrated light circles in front of you (as seen in the pictures above).

 

[Matt_337]

If this is the case, why not just retrofit HID projectors? With real HID projectors, you have light dispersed evenly across the driver's field of vision - not two concentrated light circles in front of you (as seen in the pictures above).

I just installed a kit from Steve on to my Tacoma and I have to agree with you on this point. It's not a knock against Steve but on HID kits in general.

There is no cut off anywhere and I am now thinking about doing this S2000 (which I think has the best OEM HID) mod to my Tacoma to get a true projector style HID.
I want this look:

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Just my 2 cents, not so much on the HID kits but on the person selling them. I bought one of Steve's kits a couple of years ago. After over a year when one of the bulbs burnt out, he replaced it for FREE. I thought that was really stand up of him to do and that. I don't know which kit is actually "better" but I can say you will get really great customer service with Steve.

 

[Malibu Rapper]

A projector retrofit is not difficult with the pop up headlights. However, the problem is the fluted glass. You will get extra cutoff lines. If someone just made a clear replacement lens that would be awesome. LittoDeViL from HIDplanet did a retrofit for MikeC_587. Here is the writeup on the lens replacement. It is not a simple task for an amateur retrofitter. Here is the thread on the whole project.

Luckily, we don't have light scattering problems like the pictures below so the kits work good enough for the NSX. Will it be better retrofitted? Yes. But to do it right it you need a clear lens. The retrofit in the links above ran about $3k so how much is it worth to you? I plan to do it on my car in the future but it's very low on the modification totem pole right now as the kit works more than well enough.

 

[Matt_337]

I see your point Malibu

I have the scattered light issue right now with my Tacoma and it is annoying and it blinds people in front of me.

Anyway, I don't want to take this thread off topic anymore.

 

[pvmike]

Just saw this thread.

I purchased one of Steve's 6000k McCulloch kits, and it's pictured on the left next to Malibu's Phillips kit. The kit was a true plug and play solution, and I believe Steve's kit was the first to offer replacement dust caps for our cars. One of the bulbs went out after a year + of use, so I did not ask Steve for a replacement bulb. He graciously offered to replace it for me after he learned of the bulb failure, but I had already purchased replacement bulbs.

Now as far as the light output of the McCulloch 6000k kit, I must say that the greenish color and relatively weak bulb strength always left me wanting. It's not apparent in the pictures, but the Phillips kit is much brighter. The beam on the McCulloch kit did not extend as far as I liked, and it appeared that many OEM HID lights were brighter in comparison when driving side-by-side with other vehicles. A black NSX is already a difficult car to see at night, and the low light output left me wondering if other vehicles would see me coming.

After seeing the light output of Cliffud's kit on an xB, I replaced my bulbs with those sold by Cliffud. It was a huge improvement. The color is much more white, giving the appearance of an OEM install. Now, when driving next to other vehicles with OEM equipped HID's, the light output is equivalent or greater. I'm extremely pleased with the result. Although I do not have pictures comparing the two, the change in bulbs made a noticeable difference.

I have no affiliation with any vendor here. This is just my personal experience. Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[randomharmony]

Just looked up the DIY on FAQ and i think it can use a little bit of update since the newer kit are much simpler to do.

 

[whiteNSXs]

I just installed a kit from Steve on to my Tacoma and I have to agree with you on this point. It's not a knock against Steve but on HID kits in general.

There is no cut off anywhere and I am now thinking about doing this S2000 (which I think has the best OEM HID) mod to my Tacoma to get a true projector style HID.
I want this look:

The HID conversion works best with projection headlights such as the NSX. I am using the same 9003 kit on my 1999 CRV and it works quite well albeit missing the high beam. I am surprised that it did not work well in your Tacoma. I have not had much experiences with other types of headlights. The 9003 kit in question is a standard generic Mcculloch kit right out of the box.
Steve

 

[whiteNSXs]

Just saw this thread.

I purchased one of Steve's 6000k McCulloch kits, and it's pictured on the left next to Malibu's Phillips kit. The kit was a true plug and play solution, and I believe Steve's kit was the first to offer replacement dust caps for our cars. One of the bulbs went out after a year + of use, so I did not ask Steve for a replacement bulb. He graciously offered to replace it for me after he learned of the bulb failure, but I had already purchased replacement bulbs.

Now as far as the light output of the McCulloch 6000k kit, I must say that the greenish color and relatively weak bulb strength always left me wanting. It's not apparent in the pictures, but the Phillips kit is much brighter. The beam on the McCulloch kit did not extend as far as I liked, and it appeared that many OEM HID lights were brighter in comparison when driving side-by-side with other vehicles. A black NSX is already a difficult car to see at night, and the low light output left me wondering if other vehicles would see me coming.

After seeing the light output of Cliffud's kit on an xB, I replaced my bulbs with those sold by Cliffud. It was a huge improvement. The color is much more white, giving the appearance of an OEM install. Now, when driving next to other vehicles with OEM equipped HID's, the light output is equivalent or greater. I'm extremely pleased with the result. Although I do not have pictures comparing the two, the change in bulbs made a noticeable difference.

I have no affiliation with any vendor here. This is just my personal experience. Hope this helps.

Mike

This is new to me. From my own experiences and how I decided on using the Mcculloch as my base kit, I have not seen it being not as bright as other kits or OEM HIDs. I have shown the Mcculloch at two NSXPOs and have people comparing and commenting on the light intensities and colors. The feedbacks have been favorable and I have sold a few during NSXPO while people actually had the opportunities to see the kit at night among other kits. As I stated before, I am not a Mcculloch dealer but am just buying them to use as my base kit. I am more than happy to find a more cost effective way to build those kits. As far as the brightness, I am also quite intriqued since I have seen Philips kits and really did not see any noticeable difference. Perhaps the Sacramento guys can chime in to let me know their impressions. I do read and have kept up to date with the current HID offerings in the market. There are a few power ratings among the Chinese kits ranging from 35w to 55w. The Mcculloch is the standard 35w similar to most of the aftermarket HID kits. If the light bulbs from Clifford's kits are brighter, I will be interested in the impedance of the bulbs and how much current it actually draws from the systems, compatibility with other systems, and durability. Time will tell and certainly let me know if Clifford's kit has better reliability. I don't want to keep buying Mcculloch kits if there are cheaper and better alternatives.
Steve

 

[smhrednsx91]

Just saw this thread.

I purchased one of Steve's 6000k McCulloch kits, and it's pictured on the left next to Malibu's Phillips kit. The kit was a true plug and play solution, and I believe Steve's kit was the first to offer replacement dust caps for our cars. One of the bulbs went out after a year + of use, so I did not ask Steve for a replacement bulb. He graciously offered to replace it for me after he learned of the bulb failure, but I had already purchased replacement bulbs.

Now as far as the light output of the McCulloch 6000k kit, I must say that the greenish color and relatively weak bulb strength always left me wanting. It's not apparent in the pictures, but the Phillips kit is much brighter. The beam on the McCulloch kit did not extend as far as I liked, and it appeared that many OEM HID lights were brighter in comparison when driving side-by-side with other vehicles. A black NSX is already a difficult car to see at night, and the low light output left me wondering if other vehicles would see me coming.

After seeing the light output of Cliffud's kit on an xB, I replaced my bulbs with those sold by Cliffud. It was a huge improvement. The color is much more white, giving the appearance of an OEM install. Now, when driving next to other vehicles with OEM equipped HID's, the light output is equivalent or greater. I'm extremely pleased with the result. Although I do not have pictures comparing the two, the change in bulbs made a noticeable difference.

I have no affiliation with any vendor here. This is just my personal experience. Hope this helps.

Mike

I did not purchase one of Steve's kits - I did my own using the Mccullough kits (also did the high beams, which are much much much better than the stock -if you do late night, high speed runs then get the high beams). It's a simple mode drilling out the head light caps and isntalling a aftermarket gommet. As a laser physicist, I did extensive research into HIDs. The Mcculoughs used by Steve have the brightest output. The purple output on the right (although it looks cool) is much less brighter than the left. It's totaly obvious from the photos and if you do a little research into HIDs you will be convinced (google HID brightness). If you want a superior headlight get the Mccullough -either use Steve's or DIY.