What are the 02 Type R and S alignment specs?

[Hrant]

Big O's alignment sheet shows specs/range for 1991-2001 except for Type S. When I asked them to print the Type S spec, they printed a heading with 1991 specs and tolerances:

Front
Left/Right camber -0.5 each side with tolerance of 0.17 (regular range is -0.5 to -0.2)
Left/Right caster 8.23 (regular spec is 7.8 to 8.3)
Total toe out -0.14 (-3.5mm) with tolerance of -0.04 (same as regular -0.18 to -0.10)

Rear
Left/Right camber -2.00 each with tolerance of 0.17 (compared to -1.7 to -1.3)
Total Toe in 0.16 (4mm) with tolerance of 0.04 (compared to 0.12 to 0.20)

So it appears that both rear camber is more aggressive while the front is on the max range, and they opted with moderately more aggressive toe from street driving by using -0.14 for the front and 0.16 for rear toe.

Compared to moderatley aggressive street/track combination (where the mods are the basic Bilstein/sway bars, street or track tires) most recommend front camber in the -1.5 to -2.0 range and the rear at least -2.0 or lower. As for toe -0.14 and 0.16 seem to be right. Andrie had some great insights regarding what each tire liked in terms of camber; those would be further refinenments.

So I am curious to comapre. With the 02 Type R and Type S out, and with their different suspensions and most likely tire compound, did Honda change the alignment specs from 1991? Can our brethren in Japan/Europe confirm if the 02 Type R or Type S have different alignments? TIA

 

[TyraNSX]

My sheet for '99 Type S (recieved from Power Acura when I had the car aligned as part of PPI) has:
FRONT stuff
Caster Min 8 deg., max 8.5 deg. for left & right.
Camber min. -0.7 deg., max -0.3 deg for left & right
Toe min -0.15 deg., max -0.10 deg. for left & right
Total toe min.-0.3 deg., max. -0.2 deg.

REAR stuff
Camber min. -2.2 deg., max -1.8 deg. for left & right
Toe min. 0.1 deg, max 0.2 deg. for left & right
Total toe min. 0.25 deg., max 0.35 deg.

 

[Hrant]

Thanks for feedback. Your front toe out is pretty aggressive at total -3.0 and so is the rear! Did you ask for these ot this was the Type S spec print out?

 

[TyraNSX]

It was in the pile of papers & receipts we got from the service dept. after getting all the inspection stuff & work done on the car.

 

[Hrant]

Update. Made another trip to the alignment shop today as I didn't like my last alignment on the track; too much undesteer.

While there, I specifically asked for the 99-01 Type S print out, and these are the specs they printed. I should note that even the non-Type S specs seem to have slight variations from one shop's print to another, and both are Big O shops! One would assume they all use the same software no?

1999-2001 Type S (the numbers seem similar to the post by TyraNSX - excpet for the toe).

Front
Camber -0.7 range -0.3
Caster 8.0 range 8.5
Total Toe out -0.18 range -0.10

Rear
Camber -2.2 range -1.8
Total Toe in 0.12 range 0.20

With my Bilstein on lower perch and OEM springs, the maximum camber I was able to get was -1.8/-1.9 on the front and -1.8 even on the rear. Now you can appreciate why many are getting the camber bushings kit from Comptech. Caster was up to 8.7/8.9. So we put the front toe at -0.09 and the rear at 0.16 hoping to get more turn in and stable rear while throttling through the apex. The car has mixed use street/track. YMMV.

 

[Ponyboy]

Hrant, I'm very surprised that you weren't able to get more negative camber up front. I'd think you should be able to get around -2.2 to -2.5 degrees even with your suspension setup. IIRC, I was able to get the above camber with the Eibach/Koni setup. I wonder how well the NSX would respond to -3.5 or -4 degrees of camber? I wonder what Kip Olson runs?

 

[Hrant]

Well, I saw him try and I asked him for max camber, there was just no more ....... I suspect my car is sitiing quite low even with only the Bilsteins. I asked if the OEM springs with only 40K miles would have sagged ...... they doubted.

Kip probably is in the range of -4 but I am guessing since he has so many other one of a kind goodies as well. I know Steve Ghent (SMGNSX on Prime) is about -3.5 or thereabouts. But both have the Comptech pro suspension with the camber bushings kit at a minimum.

 

[mystican]

I would try to pull the rear toe closer to zero...that should help with car rotation

 

[Hrant]

Well, its a delicate balancing act. My last short lived alignment where I had understeer with slightly less camber on the front and half the toe out, and the rear toe in at 0.10" (2mm), the back felt light. I am hoping this alignment might give more stability in the back and hopefully less understeer in the front - but I must confess that the tires are probably a major factor as they have seen some 10+ track days ...... can you say hard :biggrin:

 

[titaniumdave]

Hrant,
I think you will like more rear camber and keep the toe at -.1 degrees on the rear. After 2 years of playing with alignment I am sold on the following for track/street driving. Koni/Eibachs, non-compliant bushings, rigid toe links, front compliant clamps and RA-1's on the track, SO-3's on the street.

Front:
Caster 8 degrees +-.01 side to side
Camber -2 degrees +-.01 side to side
Toe out .1 degree

Rear:
Camber -2.6 degrees +-.01 side to side
toe in .1 degree

This is just enough camber to make the R compound tires hook up, and very little toe so street tires wear flat and last pretty long. This is the maximum amount of camber I can get with out bushings on the front, there is .2 degree more on the rear available. I have no complaints with this set up...

 

[Hrant]

Thanks Dave, but as much I would like, and I asked for, I am maxed out on rear camber. So I decided to add a bit more toe in to stabilize the rear but it might not help with the understeer. I may have to play with front tire pressure and sway bar to minimize any understeer. At the track my rear tire temps across were almost identical when my last toe in was about 0.1" so I am going to try 0.16." Prior to that I used to have 0.14" and didn't have any issues with the insides wearing - it has always been the center with Yokos, but with the new RE040 even the center seems to be wearing evenly. But I run 36 psi on the street.

 

[titaniumdave]

I think the increased toe in the rear will increase understeer by making more traction in the rear of the car on corner exit. This will cause the front end to push more if all the other variables stay the same.