Warning!!! Grey Market Exedy Twin Plate Clutches

[ACR_Motorsports]

*********NOTICE***********
ACR Motorsports has an exclusive distribution agreement with Exedy USA
for the NSX Twin Disc Clutch. Recently, Dali Racing and Science of Speed have listed the Exedy Twin Disc clutch on their respective websites. Any units currently being purchased from Dali Racing or Science of Speed, are grey market units. Grey marketing not only hurts vendors, but also hurts you the consumer. You may get a slightly better price, but the units will not be warrantied by Exedy USA and any spare replacement clutch parts that we/ACR Motorsports have in stock will be only available to those that have purchased the clutch through us or one of our distributors. Any product install support will be only available to legitimate units. In the case of a warranty issue, you do not want to have to ship the clutch all the way back to Japan. Dali Racing/SoS, may not be aware of our exclusive agreement with Exedy USA, but its plainly clear that they have been to our website to see our product which clearly states that we have the exclusive on this clutch. We have informed and requested that both parties to delist the item and cancel any pending orders. Hopefully both vendors will live up to doing business in a ethical way. We will post a list of any vendors that continue to grey market our products. Please do not support grey market NSX products of any brand. We have spent a great deal of time effort and money bringing this product to the US and have sponsored Doug Hayashi's Flamemobile NSX during the Open Track Challenge to do testing on the clutch. We have also first hand install experience and speak with Exedy's Engineers on a regular bases. We have spent time translating the install which is not as SoS states, "identical to factory". The clutch design is unique and different from the OEM twin disk clutch, and neither Dali or SOS has first hand experience with the install. The translated manual is only available through us and our dealers. We are an ethical business and prominent members of the NSX community, including Alex Vizcarra(pres. of NSXCA), Doug Hayashi, and Factor X Motorsports have gotten their Exedy Twin Plate clutch from us. Again we hope that the NSX community does not support grey marketing any kind. The amount of Vendors that cater to our group is already small. And grey marketing will only decrease the amount of vendors serving the NSX community and discourage vendors from putting in time and money to bring new products to the US.

Keep up the standards of the NSX community!!!

Alexander

We are currently in Japan. Will be back in the office on July 29th

UPDATE: 7/31, ACR Motorsports and Science of Speed have resolved this grey marketing issue. It was a misunderstanding regarding the proper distribution channels and Science of Speed is now one of our authorized U.S. distributors for the Exedy Twin Plate NSX Clutch. All authorized North American Exedy Twin Plate NSX units will be specially numbered and engraved for warranty/replacement parts identification purposes.

Dali Racing is still grey marketing our clutch. Any units purchased through Dali Racing will not be warrantied against manufacturing defects by Exedy USA and will have to be sent back to Japan. Also replacement parts will not be available to these unauthorized units.


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www.acrmotorsports.com



[This message has been edited by ACR_Motorsports (edited 31 July 2002).]

 

[gobble]

So you're saying you should have a monopoly on this part and be able to charge $250 more than your competitors? How is that good for the NSX community?

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Apparently there is some confusion which is typical of a Japanese product coming to market in the United States.
We have been contacted and assured by the Japanese distributor that ScienceofSpeed is authorized to offer the clutch set in the United States.

Exedy has been offered in the United States for some time now, however, the NSX product is new in the United States. I have asked both ACR and the Japanese distributor to offer proof of their claims, and we have contacted Exedy in Japan and the US to provide a structured sales and distribution channel to offer this product to our US customers.

Regards,
-- Chris


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Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520

 

[ACR_Motorsports]

Please read our post carefully.

Here are the reasons

Grey market units will not be warrantied by Exedy USA and any spare replacement clutch parts that we/ACR Motorsports have in stock will be only available to those that have purchased the clutch through us or one of our distributors. Any product install support will be only available to legitimate units. In the case of a warranty issue, you do not want to have to ship the clutch all the way back to Japan. Airshipping to and from Japan alone will be more than the $250 price difference between us and our competitors. and does not take into account the down time you may incure.

And grey marketing will only decrease the amount of vendors serving the NSX community and discourage vendors from putting in time and money to bring new products to the US.

We have an exclusive agreement to distribute the Exedy Twin Plate NSX CLutch in the U.S. and have sold to other vendors. We have offered to do the same with SoS, so I do not think it is a monopoly as you have stated.

The price of our clutch reflects not only the cost of the product but additional money spent to stock the units and keep an inventory of replacement parts, and other costs(R&D, Install Manual Translation, etc) that grey marketers do not have to bear. These costs add up to be a considerable amount.

Originally posted by gobble:
So you're saying you should have a monopoly on this part and be able to charge $250 more than your competitors? How is that good for the NSX community?

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www.acrmotorsports.com



[This message has been edited by ACR_Motorsports (edited 21 July 2002).]

 

[ACR_Motorsports]

We have replied to SoS and awaiting for them to confirm the proof of our exclusive agreement. The Japanese distributors SoS is sourcing the products from is most likely not Exedy-Japan because they would not bypass their own distribution channel in the United States and grey market their own products. They are just distributors and that is why there maybe confusion with the proper distribution channels.

Originally posted by ScienceofSpeed:
Apparently there is some confusion which is typical of a Japanese product coming to market in the United States.
We have been contacted and assured by the Japanese distributor that ScienceofSpeed is authorized to offer the clutch set in the United States.

Exedy has been offered in the United States for some time now, however, the NSX product is new in the United States. I have asked both ACR and the Japanese distributor to offer proof of their claims, and we have contacted Exedy in Japan and the US to provide a structured sales and distribution channel to offer this product to our US customers.

Regards,
-- Chris

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www.acrmotorsports.com

 

[robh]

Ack! not this again. I've been doing my studying on a clutch replacement for my NSX and have contacted Dali and Science of Speed for more information. Chris has been very helpful. he said that the Exedy clutch is new to the U.S. and he was honest about not having installed this clutch yet. did you consider contacting them before posting all over NSXPrime? I thought that was kind of childish. one of the reasons I left the NSX email lists is because of the vendors and members bickering. I've enjoyed it much more here in lurk mode and hope I won't see more of this.

Has anyone tried the ACT clutch from Dali? I want a clutch that is aggressive but easy to drive with a conservative pedal effort. I think Comptech may be too aggressive but the Exedey and ACT sounds like it may work. the Dali site says it is out of stock and the Dali clutch is not available because he has to get his act together (not sure what that means). my clutch is starting to slip, and I will need something soon.

rob

 

[Jimbo]

I have the ACT clutch/flywheel setup and I'm very happy with it. I purchased it through Davis Acura.

I think when it comes to distribution agreements that these things should be best handled by parties involved and not the customer base.

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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[madfast]

rob,
rps www.tuboclutch.com sells a twin disk for the nsx. but the price is close to $3k but those are rebuildable so u pay less when u rebuild. I have an rps 3 in my mitsu and holds the power so well that I managed to get 561hp at the wheels. as opposed to the prvious clutch I had there. centerforce DF is a POS!!

dave

 

[AaronR]

ACR Motorsports...Just a thought, but wouldn't it be more professional of you to handle a business dispute privatly rather than airing your dirty laundry on a public and open forum such as this one? I understand your point, but seeing you use the publicity of this forum for this type of thing will not drive people to be your customer, regardless if you are correct in the matter at hand or not. Just my opinion of course.
Aaron

 

[erobbins]

Originally posted by AaronR:
ACR Motorsports...Just a thought, but wouldn't it be more professional of you to handle a business dispute privatly rather than airing your dirty laundry on a public and open forum such as this one?

Maybe that dude in Hong Kong who has the beef with Dali now works in public relations for ACR?

EDR

 

[robh]

I dont get it. Mark Johnson bought the wheels from him and never paid him, promised both the NSX list and him that he would return the wheels or pay him, and till this day, he has not paid or returned the wheels. why are you making him out to be the bad guy? I have not had any problems with ordering from Mark but Mark did admit to not paying or returning the wheels several months ago on the NSX list, and the guy is still out of luck. I can remember this going on as long as I have been on the list.

rob

 

[ACR_Motorsports]

We sincerely apologize to those who feel our statement was "childish", "unprofessional", etc. However, like any business would do, we had to protect our interests as well as inform the public. Chris from Science of Speed has been a gentleman as well as a ethical business owner and has agreed to stop grey marketing the Exedy Twin Plate Clutch once he confirms our exclusive agreement with out manufacturer. Meanwhile Mark Johnson of Dali Racing has replied to our request," Do not expect any cooperation from me". He can run his company anyway he wants, but by no means are his practices ethical. He has also used our sponsorship of Doug Hayashi's Flamemobile on his website to promote his grey marketing efforts. We have avoided offers to grey market products such as Taitec and other brands with exclusive US Distributors because we respect the other businesses in the community.

For those that think it was ridiculous for us to post on the forums about grey marketing, nobody said anything to Tino Stramatos(BBoxer) when he had a semi-confrontation with Vivi-Service of Italy over the grey marketing of Tubi units. Why didn't anybody complpain about how Tino was publicly using the forums to protect his rights as the exclusive NSX Tubi exhaust distributor even though the grey market units were a lot cheaper?

By the way, because of Mark Johnson's action to continue his unethical behavior, we have decided to lower the price of our clutch to $1700 to make the choice easier for those who want to go with an "offical product". http://www.acrmotorsports.com/exmotclut.html


For those who think grey marketing is ethical, do a search on corporate ethics.

Originally posted by robh:
Ack! not this again. I've been doing my studying on a clutch replacement for my NSX and have contacted Dali and Science of Speed for more information. Chris has been very helpful. he said that the Exedy clutch is new to the U.S. and he was honest about not having installed this clutch yet. did you consider contacting them before posting all over NSXPrime? I thought that was kind of childish. one of the reasons I left the NSX email lists is because of the vendors and members bickering. I've enjoyed it much more here in lurk mode and hope I won't see more of this.

Has anyone tried the ACT clutch from Dali? I want a clutch that is aggressive but easy to drive with a conservative pedal effort. I think Comptech may be too aggressive but the Exedey and ACT sounds like it may work. the Dali site says it is out of stock and the Dali clutch is not available because he has to get his act together (not sure what that means). my clutch is starting to slip, and I will need something soon.

rob

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www.acrmotorsports.com

[This message has been edited by ACR_Motorsports (edited 22 July 2002).]

 

[erobbins]

Originally posted by ACR_Motorsports:
...we have decided to lower the price of our clutch to $1700 to make the choice easier for those who want to go with an "offical product".

Gee... you have encountered competition from Dali Racing which has resulted in a lower price for your product. Thanks, Dali!

EDR

 

[mikec]

It's like clerks in a store fighting in front of the customers, or waitresses squabbling over the tip in a restaurant; conflict you NEVER let the customer see. Do your respective businesses a favor. TAKE IT PRIVATE!

[This message has been edited by mikec (edited 23 July 2002).]

[This message has been edited by mikec (edited 23 July 2002).]

 

[sjs]

Regrading your response to my post back here...
http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005545.html

Alexander,

I knew there were countless ways for you to interpret my post no matter how I phrased it so I didn’t waste time trying to plug all the holes with endless qualifications. That leaves dealing in generalities that are easily countered by the opposing side. Such are the limits to anything less than a full-on debate.

You’ll notice that I did not advocate a “completely free market” for some of the very reasons you state, primarily those to do with government regulation which are admittedly often badly flawed. However, they have little in common with many of the business practices to which I object today.

I used the word monopoly knowing full well that someone would object even though my intended meaning should be clear, it was just too easy. Obviously I understand the generally accepted meaning of the term and that it does not strictly apply here, but just as obviously I am looking at this situation as a microcosm the market. If there is a highly desirable product but the supply of that product is restricted to a single source, then that source has an absolute monopoly with regards to that product. For the sole source to supply yet another layer of select retailers on their terms does not really open the market. In the case of NSX parts where the consumer’s options are very limited, there quite often are not truly comparable alternatives, so the monopoly analogy is not so far off. This has nothing to do with patents or copyrights which protect innovation and intellectual property, not merely hard work or cash investment as such. In fact this is much closer to being about restraint of trade laws than it is to patents. Nor does it compare in any way to university diplomas for crying out loud. Or perhaps it does but in the exact opposite way you intended. With a few licensed exceptions that surely don’t apply here, there is nothing to prevent a person who dropped out of high school from being given a job in preference to someone with a degree so long as they are better qualified. But now we’re so far from the subject that it’s ridiculous. Analogies are a great debating tool, but the quickest way to lose credibility or appear to be supporting the indefensible is by using ones that are irrelevant. (I’m not really slamming you here, I have no doubt that you are sincere. But aren’t you tired of every politician, media personality and fanatic for whatever cause using ludicrous analogies to “prove” their point?)

We could debate this forever and get nowhere, not to mention I might lose.

Clearly the manufacturers are satisfied with the arrangement so they must feel it is in their best interest, but that does not mean it is in the best interest of the consumers. The consumer is better served by choice. Choice of product is best, but lacking that then choice of retailer, and preferably both. I realize that attempts by government to force this ideal have sometimes failed, but they have been on a massive scale and not really comparable to this type of situation. However, they were attempted because the theory is sound. And while I don’t totally discount the premise that some products would be slower getting to our shores without such agreements, that isn’t always the case but it does make for a convenient justification to control the market.

Now that I'm looking at the more recent posts before hitting the Submit button, I think you made a mistake by lowering your price in response to the gray market threat. It suggests to me that the previous price was higher than necessary to realize a reasonable return on your investment. It proves that even in this case the consumer is better served by competition. But you may be better served as well. Now the price seems more reasonable to me and I may become a customer whereas I would not have before. The theory is working and we may both win.

The funny thing is that I’m also fond of saying that quite often consumers are their own worst enemy as I have described in other threads here. Hopefully that’s an indication that I am not entirely myopic.

Ah, one more thought. Why did I buy a used NSX without a warranty of any kind rather than a new or at least newer one with a warranty? Because like most people I must weigh costs and benefits when making purchases. I judged the NSX a great car and I wanted one, but I could not justify the cost of a newer model even though I could certainly afford it. As an informed consumer I learned about the benefits and risks of my options and determined that the NSX is quite reliable, and I budgeted for a few possible problems. Sure, Acura would have tried to sell me a new one for many of the same reasons you say I should buy a clutch from you rather than from Chris, but in the end I did what was really best for me even though it did not directly support the company that brought us the car.

BTW, I don't particularly object to your initial posts on this subject. As a consumer I feel that more information is a good thing if I'm bright enough to use it. I never quite understand why other people are so thin skinned about a bit of squabbling or discourse, it often serves a purpose. However, this can not be compared to things like arguments between employees at a business. That is taboo, but also entirely different than for you to state your position as a businessman serving our community, and for others to debate that position. Why should we object to that? I for one feel better severed for it.

[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 23 July 2002).]

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by ACR_Motorsports:
For those who think grey marketing is ethical, do a search on corporate ethics.

I'll give you one guess who wrote those guidelines, and it wasn't consumers. Besides, since when could we rely on anyone to have ethics? I'm not bashing them all, but unless you've been in a comma lately you can't be serious. Between the corporate executives, the "independent" accounting firms, the stock "analysts" and the priesthood, people who are trusted not to screw the public have nearly destroyed the economy and the lives of countless people. The only real ethic that anyone needs to remember also happens to summarize a popular top 10 of ethics cut in stone. As old and as simple as it is, it is still so often forgotten or ignored. Do unto others... But I'd twist it a bit to say "Do unto others as you would have them do unto your Mother (Grandmother, sister, whatever)"

Darn, now I've blown the evening pontificating to people who probably don't really care. Sorry.

[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 23 July 2002).]

 

[NSXLNT]

I would have to agree with SJS's last two posts. However, as consumers, we need to keep something in mind: The designer/creator/manufacturer of a product/goods/services is taking a financial risk, hoping to make a profit, or at the very least, recoup costs. A fine line exists between supply and demand, and pricing will ultimately adjust itself. We as consumers do not have the right to demand other options Except through our purchase decisions. We can decide to buy or not, but what right do we have to expect that just because company A has , through great effort and expense, brought a commodity to market, company B, C, and D should be able to take advantage of company A's efforts? Yes, competition is good, and yes Patent and Copyright laws are also good.This is the reason I thought the whole Govt. vs Microsoft debacle was such a joke. Also the Napster situation. If I create a need because I've marketed a product that I've designed and brought to market, why should someone else benefit or be able to cash in on that need? If you can take something and make it better for less cost, great. But wait until my patent or copyright runs out.

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by NSXLNT:
I would have to agree with SJS's last two posts. However, as consumers, we need to keep something in mind: The designer/creator/manufacturer of a product/goods/services is taking a financial risk, hoping to make a profit, or at the very least, recoup costs.

True, but here we were discussing the retailers of said parts, not the manufacturer. The are covered by patents as noted. This is about the industrious US retailer who finds he can legally buy the product from a foreign retailer or distributor, pay for shipping, undercut the "authorized" retailer's price, and still make a profit. All very legal. None of us are bound by an agreement between manufacturers and their retailers.

BTW, in many cases, "improving on" a patented product is OK and will qualify for a new patent. Many conditions around that of course, but it must be so or innovation screeches to a halt.

 

[ACR_Motorsports]

Update: 7/31, ACR Motorsports and Science of Speed have resolved this grey marketing issue. It was a misunderstanding regarding the proper distribution channels and Science of Speed is now one of our authorized U.S. distributors for the Exedy Twin Plate NSX Clutch. All authorized North American Exedy Twin Plate NSX units will be specially numbered and engraved for warranty/replacement parts identification purposes.

Dali Racing is still grey marketing our clutch. Any units purchased through Dali Racing will not be warrantied against manufacturing defects by Exedy USA and will have to be sent back to Japan. Also replacement parts will not be available to these unauthorized units.

------------------

www.acrmotorsports.com