V6 for the new RL...

[nsxtacey]

According to automobile magazine this month the new RL will remain a V6 w/ more horse power. Rationale is Acura is not going after high end luxury, rather it will try to compete with mid range luxury cars. I thought thats what the TL is for?

Btw, the scatch of it is rather ugly imo, looks like a big tsx.

Anyways, so much for the idea that the new nsx will share a v8 with the RL if the article is true.

 

[Jimbo]

AUTOMOBILE Magazine has an article, "Forty Cars Worth Waiting For!" and in it they say (p.51)
"The overdue replacement for Acura's 3.5RL flagship sedan won't go after the Lexus LS430 with a V-8 and rear wheel drive; instead, it will again get a V-6-a new generation 3.5-litre unit with 300 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque-and a version of the Honda Accord's front wheel-drive platform with all-wheel drive derived from the system in the MDX. Acura will aim the RL at mid-level luxury sedans, such as the BMW 5-series and the Audi A6. Look for a concept at Tokyo this fall and a production car at the '04 Detroit show."
(Why) "Honda likes to be different, sees limited market potential in big, V-8-powered sedans, and is targeting high fuel economy and sensational high-speed handling."

Oh, and as an aside, they casually mention a full-size Honda SUV and pickup using General motors V-8s in early '05.

 

[matteni]

That will be a sad day when Honda Engine Company uses an engine from the General in one of their cars or trucks.

 

[nsxtacey]

remeber the old slx and odessey?

They were isuzu cars w/ acura embolem...now that was a sad time. They stopped real quick when reports on high turnover on the izusu trooper was in consumer reports.

I guess having trucks w/ gm engines is ok as long as it's not ford engines.

 

[NetViper]

I also read honda will not use a V8 in their new truck. It will be the V6 from the MDX.

Oh well, I think we can all pretty much forget about a V8 in the next NSX. Not the end of the world. All we need is a 4.0 L V6 with 120HP/L... 480HP

 

[matteni]

Last year at Gingerman several of us listened to an Acura dealer / owner (his kids run it now actually) say that he saw a memo saying that Honda would not make a v8 (infering the next NSX if there is one would not get one either).

He said in the memo they cited the limited future of the internal combustion engine and their desire to be known as the "Green" car company (1st mass production hybred, ULEV cars and trucks, high average gas millage, etc)

I believed he was telling us the truth and his predictions are coming true so far. For what it is worth.

 

[Jimbo]

GM - Honda Deal

I was going to respond to the RL thread with this but for some reason that thread is locked.

Anyway, here's the info...

GM Cuts Engine Deal With Honda
(Aug 28/02)

General Motors plans to begin installing Honda's 3.5 litre V6 engine in its Saturn Vue SUV. GM, which signed a contract in 1999 to buy up to 90,000 engines and transmission annually from Honda , says it will take only 50,000 a year, according to a GM official. The Honda powertrain in question, which includes a 5-speed automatic transmission, meets California's low emission vehicle regulations. It will be available in the 2004 Saturn Vue which goes on sale next sumer. GM's five-year agreement to buy engines and transmissions from Honda also goes into effect in summer, 2003.

There were rumors at the time that Honda might get V8s or other larger engines from GM.

-Jim

 

[FuryNSX]

Hmm, you mean to put in that GM powered Honda truck that I heard about back in March of 2000?

 

[Joel]

Ummm, why is this deal even happening?
A japanese engine in a GM car and vice versa?

I don't understand.

 

[8000RPM]

Re: GM - Honda Deal

There were rumors at the time that Honda might get V8s or other larger engines from GM.

Hmmmmmm..............................

 

[Jimbo]

Why?

A combination of manufacturing capacity, economics, etc.

I can certainly understand why Saturn would want the Honda engine.

I would also assume that Honda would be getting one of the newer generation GM V8 engines, which are very nice and well-engineered (i.e. Northstar).

-J

 

[nsxtacey]

remeber the old slx and odessey?

They were isuzu cars w/ acura embolem...now that was a sad time. They stopped real quick when reports on high turnover on the izusu trooper was in consumer reports.

I guess having trucks w/ gm engines is ok as long as it's not ford engines.

 

[FuryNSX]

The first generation Odyssey was a Honda product, then rebadged as an Isuzu Oasis. If anything, Isuzu got the better part of the deal in Honda's rush to get any SUV out there.

 

[john576]

I like the sound of an AWD Acura/Honda sedan. Ive read many A4 and A6 reviews complaining of poor reliability and high maintenance issues but confident solid German Eng... Wow maybe Honda will add AWD to their compact and midsize sedans and make the cabins a bit quieter too.

Honda trucks with GM engines- Hopefully the day before hell freezes over and day after monkeys fly out of Waynes (Waynes World) butt

Remember such beautiful products as Vibe, Storm, Navajo, the only decent looking American-Japanese venture ever made IMO was the Conquest/Starion which REALLY was a Mitsu

Where would Hondas rep be if they designed pushrod, 2 valve per cylinder engines with clunky archaic trannys for the Accord?

 

[Jimbo]

"...it will again get a V-6-a new generation 3.5-litre unit with 300 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque..."

I could imagine a tuned version of this engine finding its way into the NSX.

It shouldn't be too difficult to get 375 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque.

-J

 

[nsxtacey]

"...it will again get a V-6-a new generation 3.5-litre unit with 300 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque..."

I could imagine a tuned version of this engine finding its way into the NSX.

It shouldn't be too difficult to get 375 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque.

-J

I think that would be logical considering they can get 240hp out of the v4 s2000. At 60hp per cyclinder, guess it should be at least 360. Give it larger intake etc. and 400hp is very possible.

 

[Jimbo]

The S2000 has a i4, not a V4.

I was being conservative and I was also hoping that Honda wouldn't strive so much for peak HP as they did with the S2000.

I would much rather see Honda tune for a bit more torque and low-mid end.

-J

 

[NetViper]

Even Ferrari is learning that low end torque is more important. Peaky engines might be great on the track, but in real world driving, they dont make much sense. The NSX could use more low end torque, but its not bad.. especially compared to an S2000.

My hope would be if they used the 3.5L V6, they would tune it for about 375 HP with Lots of low end torque. Of course, I think that is what they should have done with the 2002 redesign and I will ALWAYS feel that the 2002 was a flop because they left the powerplant alone. Who cares about a facelift if the car isn't any faster.

I just read porsche is once again upping the power in the 911. I think that if porsche originally made the NSX, right now we would have a NSX with a 3.6 L V6 with about 365 HP. It would do 0-60 in about 4.2 seconds and 1/4 in 12.5 @ 115 MPH.
Instead we have a 6 year old 3.2 L engine putting out less HP than ANY other exotic car on the planet and also nearly outpowerd by $30K Mitsubishis! (not to mention soon to by outpowered by $30K Subaru's!)

Why HONDA ... .WHY??!!

 

[Dr.Honda]

Honda buying motors from GM dosn't exactly square with the "green company" image (or as a leader in small displacement
naturally aspirated engine technology). Definately would be cheaper than a dedicated V-8 plant for limited production runs
for RL and NSX only. If it does happen, it will be disappointing to say the least. I agree with Jimbo and Netviper re torque, I almost like driving my 6-speed Accord more than the S2000 for this reason alone. I don't think 6 cylinders and torque have to be mutually exclusive, BMW has accomplished good torque output with inline 6's for years. Give me a 3.5 liter, DOHC, high compression V-6 with 300 ft. lbs and 325 hp over a similar engine with 275 ft.lbs and 350 hp anyday.

 

[JPS Europa]

I don't know about the GM deal per se, but the reason that was given for the change in engine rotation on the new Honda motors was that it would make them compatible with other manufacturers drivetrains allowing Honda to sell motors.