Unethical selling practices by a Dealer - Tampered with guage cluster

[nsxexotic]

MAIN STREET MOTORS has been a member of Pennsylvania Independent Automobile dealers association for over 10-years.


Last week I went over to Main Steet motors in Norristown, PA to purchase a 98 Honda Accord EX V6 for about $5500 total (car has some dents and hi-mi). Larry, the owner, made a deal with me and I left a deposit of 500 cash as long as he would take off the check engine light permanatly (EDIT REPAIR the problem). He also agreed to it in writing.

I come back today and discovered they fixed the check engine light problem by removing the light bulb behind the gauge cluster. (all the warning lights came on when key was in position 2 except check engine light). I was furious and to make a long story short. The lady said oh we did that because we thought the car was going to go in the auction. OH REALLY - GREAT SELLING SCEME. I'm surpose to come tomorrow morning and get my deposit back.

I should report this guy to P I A Dealer Association. Got the evidence on my video camera phone & documents.

 

[ChopsJazz]

I don't really get it. You asked him to remove the light "permanently". He took the bulb out. Doesn't sound like tampering to me. It sounds like an attempt to sastisfy your request in a reversible manner that wouldn't otherwise damage the car. Since you were aware of the warning light being on, it wasn't an attempt to hide the warning light form you. Why were you so upset?

 

[len3.8]

Yes, I agree with Chops. Were you wanting him to fix the CEL as in fixing a bad o2 sensor? Were you asking him to disconnect it to pass emissions? It's hard to tell what you were asking him to do in your post, at least it is to me.

 

[SCS2k]

You two guys are kidding right? If you ask a dealer to fix a check engine light, common sense (at least to someone with ethics and morals) would dictate that the problem(s) that caused the light to come on should be repaired. I agree with nsxexotic above. If the car had a gauge that read low oil pressure and you asked for that to be fixed, would you expect the dealer to just disconnect the gauge? Come on. If the engine knocked would the solution be to just turn up the radio? Get a louder exhaust? He didn't ask for the problem to be hidden, he asked for it to be fixed. The dealer didn't fix the problem, the dealer tried to hide it and that is the issue here.

 

[len3.8]

You two guys are kidding right? If you ask a dealer to fix a check engine light, common sense (at least to someone with ethics and morals) would dictate that the problem(s) that caused the light to come on should be repaired. I agree with nsxexotic above. If the car had a gauge that read low oil pressure and you asked for that to be fixed, would you expect the dealer to just disconnect the gauge? Come on. If the engine knocked would the solution be to just turn up the radio? Get a louder exhaust? He didn't ask for the problem to be hidden, he asked for it to be fixed. The dealer didn't fix the problem, the dealer tried to hide it and that is the issue here.

No, I am not kidding. Read the way he wrote it up. He didn't say fix the O2 sensor problem.
He said:"I left a deposit of 500 cash as long as he would take off the check engine light permanatly. "
permanently? It's part of the system, they come on to warn you of emissions , ect. It sounds like he wanted him to keep it from coming on period. Whether he meant that or not. Again, at least that's they way he made it sound.

Common sense also tells me that people need to have the CEL off to pass inspection, here it's a automatic fail.
If it's off at least you get that 50/50 chance that it may pass. My point... Not saying that he wanted that, it just sounds that way.
Re-read it without your common sense.
Len
absent of Common sense and ethics or morals.

 

[EIFFEL]

With the bulb removed, the car still will not pass obd 2 inspection. the ecm will still stored the problem. I have seen many cars "fixed" this way. most from used car dealers.

 

[vintagecarman]

I have worked for several dealerships never finding one that had any type of true integrity. For some reason the automotive industry “dealerships” breeds unethical behavior.

The point of having the light turned off was to have the problem that was causing the light to come on to be properly fixed. Simply removing the bulb was bs.

{permanetly} A play on words I agree but we all know what the point was.

 

[ChopsJazz]

Larry, the owner, made a deal with me and I left a deposit of 500 cash as long as he would take off the check engine light permanatly.

I am REALLY confused. No need to get mad, but I read that post as nsxexotic wanting to buy a slightly dented, high-mileage car cheaply. Nowhere does he say he asked the dealer to fix the O2 sensor or to pass an obd 2 inspection. It seems pretty clear to me that no amount of work on an engine will guarantee that the check engine light will stay off permanently. Maybe nsxexotic should clarify EXACTLY what he asked the dealer to do to sell him the car.

Meanwhile, everybody please remain calm.

 

[vintagecarman]

Meanwhile, everybody please remain calm.

Do not tell me to remain calm! I'm sick and tired of hearing this same type of story were a unscrupulous dealer attempts to pull a fast one on an upstanding customer, while guys like you stick up for them!

Kidding!

What else would you expect from a used car dealer?

 

[SCS2k]

I was going to post a response but I think we all know the point he was trying to make and I don't care to get this thread any further OT.

 

[nsxexotic]

Sorry for getting everyone so heated. I asked him to repair the "check engine light problem" and he said he would do it. I also made up a senerio... say you hook up an OBDII scanner and it turns out to be a bad o2 sensor, will you replaced that part? DEALER said, "if thats the problem then I'll have it replaced. Whatever is wrong with it we will take care of it. Actually I'll take it up there now."

Btw - when I came back and discovered they removed the bulb instead of actually fixing it. The lady said, "oh we thought this car was going to auction so we did that."

Come 'on guys - this is dishonest period. Check engine light could be a transmission problem or as simple as a bad gas cap.

How would you feel if you purchase a used NSX and the buyer decided to pull the check engine light bulb instead of fixing it right?

 

[len3.8]

Sorry for getting everyone so heated. I asked him to repair the "check engine light problem" and he said he would do it. I also made up a senerio... say you hook up an OBDII scanner and it turns out to be a bad o2 sensor, will you replaced that part? DEALER said, "if thats the problem then I'll have it replaced. Whatever is wrong with it we will take care of it. Actually I'll take it up there now."

Btw - when I came back and discovered they removed the bulb instead of actually fixing it. The lady said, "oh we thought this car was going to auction so we did that."

Come 'on guys - this is dishonest period. Check engine light could be a transmission problem or as simple as a bad gas cap.

How would you feel if you purchase a used NSX and the buyer decided to pull the check engine light bulb instead of fixing it right?

I think if you would look at either Choppz or my post we never said the dealer was not dishonest or honest, we both seemed to understand you the same way. I was simply asking what you meant, because the initial part of your post was unclear, better yet could be taken both ways to me. If you had said what you said in the last post then I don't think you would have gotten the same response from either of us. It was just a matter of not knowing exactly what you had asked the dealer to do. That's all nothing more.

As far as calm down I was. I guess it was the being lumped into the immoral and unethical by another poster that kinda bugged me. (2nd time)

Sorry to pi@@ on your venting.
I would be mad at the dealer if I were you as well.

 

[ChopsJazz]

Thanks for clarifying nsxexotic. Now that we're clear about your requests of the dealer you have my permission to kill him.

Seriously though, I hope you got your deposit back.

 

[steveny]

I had a similar problem recently. I bought a year old S500 in Maryland and drove it home to NY. The next day while detailing the car I noticed some of the features on the car were not operating properly or at all. I searched through the owners manual to find the fuse schematic and found the fuse page was neatly cut out of the manual and missing. So I called Mercedes. The Mercedes rep. helped me locate the fuse boxes, three of them in all. After he read off all the fuses and location of each one we found four fuses were missing. I went to AutoZone and bought replacements and installed them. At this point about 10 malfunctions came up on the dash screen. The steering wheel locked in the full upright and tight to the dash position and the drivers seat slid all the way back and locked. RED TEXT on the dash screen, "CAR UNSAFE TO OPERATE TOW TO THE NEAREST SERVICE CENTER". Holy $hit! I just drove this unsafe car all the way back from Maryland. I was told the car was recently off lease and the person who turned it in deliberately pulled the fuse to avoid making costly repairs, about 20k worth to be exact. The dealership sent a rollback up the next day, picked up the car and fully refunded my money. What a waste of my time.

 

[nsxexotic]

how did a year old S500 have so much problems?

 

[len3.8]

Steveny, I had an Audi allroad that gave me an experience that follows your S500's.
After a few months and them going to obviously lose the case. They gave us a new car. They took a major beating.

 

[steveny]

how did a year old S500 have so much problems?

The Airmatic suspension was malfunctioning. The brakes needed to be replaced, the sensor came on after the fuses were installed. The harmonic balancer was bad, the cost of the harmonic balancer, without labor, was 500 dollars. Rear drivers door window motor. The main computer was also malfunctioning. Just to name a few itemsm there were many other items as well. The air ride was a 8k repair all by itself.

 

[SCS2k]

You two guys are kidding right? If you ask a dealer to fix a check engine light, common sense (at least to someone with ethics and morals) would dictate that the problem(s) that caused the light to come on should be repaired. I agree with nsxexotic above. If the car had a gauge that read low oil pressure and you asked for that to be fixed, would you expect the dealer to just disconnect the gauge? Come on. If the engine knocked would the solution be to just turn up the radio? Get a louder exhaust? He didn't ask for the problem to be hidden, he asked for it to be fixed. The dealer didn't fix the problem, the dealer tried to hide it and that is the issue here.

I want to clarify something above without deleting or editing my post. The "ethics and morals" comment was not meant for len3.8 or Chops, I was referring to the offending dealership. I apologize for any insult, that was not my intent.