[Un]official poll: Should Politics be strictly banned on PRIME? Yes or No

[nsxotic911]

My post on Massachusets, with limited shots on Obama (zero?) was quickly taken down, despite a lot of interest via 12 responses within an hour.

I understand there are a few people that just can't resist clicking on a post that has any hint of criticism of their party or members and get upset to the point of threatening to leave, rather than just participating in the 999 other active threads. This is a chance to say 'NO, enough is enough and state that it should be banned!'. If the Yes's outnumber No's, I promise I won't start any more political threads..

Here's an opportunity for the active Prime members take an [un]official stand. Should Politics be banned or not? The management can then make a decisin. Sure, it can do what it wants, but it will have (un)official ammo to justify the decision.

NOTE: NO DISCUSSION ON YOUR POLITICAL OPINION HERE. JUST YES OR NO. If you're brave, post as to why, but be assured your responses are anonymous (at least with me..)

 

[Hasdrubal]

Well, I know I don't post a lot here, but I read the site pretty often. I think the majority of members here are reasonable adults. As long as reasonable adults agree to be reasonable about their posts, there shouldn't be a problem.

Threads on politics should be fine, as long as people want to actually talk about an issue. If it turns into a back and forth about 'your guy is an SOB, but my guy is an angel,' versus 'no, you're a retard and you smell bad for thinking the way you do,' then it's not really about politics anymore.

Name calling is useless for any thread here. Doesn't matter if it's about the President, taxes, or if the FD is a better car than the NSX (it's not, of course).

 

[nsxotic911]

Well, I know I don't post a lot here, but I read the site pretty often. I think the majority of members here are reasonable adults. As long as reasonable adults agree to be reasonable about their posts, there shouldn't be a problem.

Threads on politics should be fine, as long as people want to actually talk about an issue. If it turns into a back and forth about 'your guy is an SOB, but my guy is an angel,' versus 'no, you're a retard and you smell bad for thinking the way you do,' then it's not really about politics anymore.

Name calling is useless for any thread here. Doesn't matter if it's about the President, taxes, or if the FD is a better car than the NSX (it's not, of course).

I agree with most of what you're saying. Personal attacks against members is unacceptable and that post/person should be addressed with.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

No it should not be banned. However, it should be monitored and regulated, and by the very nature of human moderators, it will be subjective.

Look at this way, some people have no problems with nudity or profanity, however, it is not acceptable on this site and is subjectively monitored (some people/instances get away with more than others). Who is to say that nudity or profanity is acceptable or not? The moderators of the forum make that decision and they bring their subjective judgment to make that call, no different than when they feel a political topic has gone too far. It's just the personality of this forum group and you can either be a part of it (for all of its benefits and negatives) or go to a different site that closer matches your beliefs.

 

[passline]

No it should not be banned. However, it should be monitored and regulated, and by the very nature of human moderators, it will be subjective.

Look at this way, some people have no problems with nudity or profanity, however, it is not acceptable on this site and is subjectively monitored (some people/instances get away with more than others). Who is to say that nudity or profanity is acceptable or not? The moderators of the forum make that decision and they bring their subjective judgment to make that call, no different than when they feel a political topic has gone too far. It's just the personality of this forum group and you can either be a part of it (for all of its benefits and negatives) or go to a different site that closer matches your beliefs.

Yes, just the way a ref monitors a hockey game. Sometimes a player will be watched more closely than others and will get penalized for the slightest infraction mainly because of his past unsportsmanlike play.
Be part of it or find another sport.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

I agree with most of what you're saying. Personal attacks against members is unacceptable and that post/person should be addressed with.

Name calling a corrupt, braindead politician? Well, you can already know how I feel about that. I think we should have some emapthy and professionaisl, but when you have a President that is starting a war on the false pretense, or a President and Congress that doesn't give a s*** what people think and about creating jobs, then name calling should be fine.

You understand that, that itself is your own subjective judgement call on what you think is acceptable or not. However, you realize that other people might not find that acceptable. Just like profanity, should that be allowed or should it not be allowed on this forum. Everyone will have a different opinion on that. And more importantly, who makes that decision? I would argue that the only way it would work is if person is designated to make that call; otherwise, you would have thousands of differing opinions. That appointed person would use their subjective decision and judgement, for better and for worse, to decide what should be allowed and what shouldn't. That person would be called the moderator. Who picks the moderator? Well since this site is privately built and funded operation, then it would be the site founder and operator (Lud). Which if I recall, is exactly how this site is currently run.

 

[nsxotic911]

No it should not be banned. However, it should be monitored and regulated, and by the very nature of human moderators, it will be subjective.

Look at this way, some people have no problems with nudity or profanity, however, it is not acceptable on this site and is subjectively monitored (some people/instances get away with more than others). Who is to say that nudity or profanity is acceptable or not? The moderators of the forum make that decision and they bring their subjective judgment to make that call, no different than when they feel a political topic has gone too far. It's just the personality of this forum group and you can either be a part of it (for all of its benefits and negatives) or go to a different site that closer matches your beliefs.

Looks like the poll is 10:1 so far. It's 'moderated' too heavy handedly and we can have a poll on that if you really like.

I don't want to rathole but I think the 12 people and then some would agree that my post on Massachusets should not have been shut down within a few hours. Massachusets is super, super, super relevant right now it's not a rehashed topic and this isn't November 08 where half the posts are on the election.

 

[heySkippy]

I vote either ban political threads completely or establish a Politics sub-forum and exile them to it.

 

[nsxotic911]

You understand that, that itself is your own subjective judgement call on what you think is acceptable or not. However, you realize that other people might not find that acceptable. Just like profanity, should that be allowed or should it not be allowed on this forum. Everyone will have a different opinion on that. And more importantly, who makes that decision? I would argue that the only way it would work is if person is designated to make that call; otherwise, you would have thousands of differing opinions. That appointed person would use their subjective decision and judgement, for better and for worse, to decide what should be allowed and what shouldn't. That person would be called the moderator. Who picks the moderator? Well since this site is privately built and funded operation, then it would be the site founder and operator (Lud). Which if I recall, is exactly how this site is currently run.

Then establish some metrics. There is a virtual ban right now, ~zero discussion. Call it that, or if you want to have the impression that it is allowed "within reason" - you can establish some metrics of what that reason is.

Right now, the bar appears to be "if you provide any sort of criticism of a politicians or policy (let's not even label which party" - it gets shut down. That's called a ban.

 

[Jetpilot3]

I'll chime in as a moderator for this Off Topic section.

I personally don't think politics should be banned at all. Its still an area that I'd say 90% of Primers can handle without breaking into all out Democrat vs. Republican war.

Now I'm from Canada and we have television shows that break the boundary on politics (This Hour has 22 minutes, Rick Mercer Report) and they get away with it. To be honest what is posted here is quite tame compared to what I'm privy to. But I will say I feel the "Tread Lightly" statement gets ignored here quite often and we as moderators have to step in.

The only issue I saw with the thread the OP made was where one member told the other member to "get bent" jokingly and the word "enciting" came up. While I didn't pull the plug on that thread you could sort of see where it was going. That being said, I myself wouldn't remove the thread but remove the statements made by these two offending users, perhaps give them a reminder to tread lightly.

I suggest that Prime create a Politics Sub Forum as its quite successful on other sites and I believe it can be successful with our group of highly intelligent NSX Primers.

 

[Ko-nsx]

I agree with most of what you're saying. Personal attacks against members is unacceptable and that post/person should be addressed with.

Name calling a corrupt, braindead politician? Well, you can already know how I feel about that. I think we should have some emapthy and professionaisl, but when you have a President that is starting a war on the false pretense, or a President and Congress that doesn't give a s*** what people think and about creating jobs, then name calling should be fine.

I think all discussion should be allowed on the forum, if members can behave like adults. But after seeing so many posts, like the one you typed in the 2nd paragraph of your quote above, is the reason i don't post as much anymore. I try not to pollute this site with my personal views about something i can't control and don't have ALL THE FACTS on.

 

[nsxotic911]

I think all discussion should be allowed on the forum, if members can behave like adults. But after seeing so many posts, like the one you typed in the 2nd paragraph of your quote above, is the reason i don't post as much anymore. I try not to pollute this site with my personal views about something i can't control and don't have ALL THE FACTS on.

I might even find a metric such as "no personal attacks on politicians, just professional criticism" be ...................barely ok. Again, provide a metric, rather than shut down 9/10 posts.

 

[heySkippy]

I don't want Prime to feel like China..

A big problem I have with most political threads it they seem to turn into a contest of ridiculously overblown statements, not unlike that one above.

 

[drtruong]

A big problem I have with most political threads it they seem to turn into a contest of ridiculously overblown statements, not unlike that one above.

If the topic is getting out of control or heated, the moderator(s) should tell them to take a chill pill.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Looks like the poll is 10:1 so far. It's 'moderated' too heavy handedly and we can have a poll on that if you really like.

I don't want to rathole but I think the 12 people and then some would agree that my post on Massachusets should not have been shut down within a few hours. Massachusets is super, super, super relevant right now it's not a rehashed topic and this isn't November 08 where half the posts are on the election.

Like I said, make an official policy and ban it but this quasi-moderation/China feel is... not right.

What's not right about it? The metric is the opinion of the moderator. Not sure why you aren't understanding that part of it? A metric doesn't have to be a hard equation, it can be a sliding scale or subjective and it can differ from person to person. Do you think that when a company hires or promotes people, it's done on a hard metric based on solid rules? Perhaps, but it's also based on intangibles that completely subjective. That would explain why unqualified idiots get promoted over qualified hard workers all the time.

The only reason you feel that the forum is moderated to heavy handidly is because it doesn't agree exactly with your position. I'm sure if I found something that you are sensitve about and really started digging in on it, and I wasn't censored, then you would feel that this forum wasn't moderated enough. You are using your own opinion as a measuring stick as to what is right and wrong, what is enough or not enough, and what is fair and what isn't. And if you were moderator, I'd say then you set it would be YOUR set of subjective rules in play and we'd need to follow them. So anyone offended with the loose regulation on political speak that you would allow needed to get over it or go elsewhere. But as it turns out, someone else is moderator with a different set of opinions and rules, and so those are the ones we need to abide by or leave.

 

[passline]

How to Keep Your Cool in a Heated Political Discussion

If you turn on any news channel or talk radio station these days, you're likely to see or hear various political pundits losing their cool in a squawking debate. And these guys are supposed to be pros! So how does an amateur pundit keep his cool in an off topic forum like Prime when the topic turns to politics? Despite the madness you see on your TV, is it possible to engage in worthwhile political debate while holding true to your beliefs?

May I offer this: :smile:

1. Don't fall for ad hominem attacks. An ad hominen attack is when the other side loses focus and decides to go after the person instead of the issue at hand, i.e. "You don't like free trade because you hate Canadians."

2. Don't become overly emotional. Easier said than done. I'm overly emotional about everything. Even though you may feel strongly about the lack of funding for VA hospitals, don't let your personal feelings cloud the strength of your argument.

3. Frame the debate. Don't let anyone paint you into a rhetorical corner with a baiting question. Be the one that your opponent must react to, not the reactor.

4. Don't expect to change anyone's mind with one good argument. People are proud of their beliefs and you're not going to win them over to your side just because you won a debate. That kind of change happens slowly, like a retreating glacier.

 

[NSX-Files]

I don't think political discussion should be banned at all. I think the system in place here with the moderators works just fine. Some people are more passionate about their politics than others, and some people can't control their speech when it comes to discussing their views.

nsxotic911, my political views are probably very much aligned with yours, but even in the midst of the 08 election when I was posting my views often, I never had a post deleted. If you're getting your posts deleted, it's not necessarily because the moderator is biased, it could be because you let your passion about the topic overwhelm your objectivity.

In my job, I'm supposed to be both analytical and persuasive. When discussing a complex topic that people can't readily understand (politics fits this), I've found you can persuade more people by laying out logical reasoning for them to grasp and accept on their own, rather than by bludgeoning them with emotional pleas and name calling. So I (respectfully) disagree with you on whether name calling should be fine. Not because it hurts someone's feelings, but because it doesn't work to persuade someone that you're right.

Bottom line is this: Politics should be freely discussed. Just do it in a way that you simply lay out the facts and let reasonable people come to the logical decision. If what you're saying makes rational sense, then most rational adults will tend to agree with you . . . even if they did screw up and vote for that rat-bastage Prez. :wink: Just kidding, he's a wonderful man. :biggrin:

 

[Vega$ NSX]

I might even find a metric such as "no personal attacks on politicians, just professional criticism" be ...................barely ok. Again, provide a metric, rather than shut down 9/10 posts. I don't want Prime to feel like China..

Again, what YOU want. Who are you to say how this site should be run. You haven't even donated any money to the operation of this site, yet you have an opinon on how it should be run? What if the majority of the people or even the owners of the site and moderators wanted this site to feel like China. Then what will you do? You'll need to make the decision on if all the wealth of information, the other great discussions and the excellent members are worth political discussions being censored like in China. Personally, I'd feel it would be worth it, so if this site was run like China, I couldn't care less. That's my decision, you'd need to come up with your own.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Look, the bottom line is this. This has nothing to do with politics. Nothing to do with censoring. Nothing to do forum rules.

This entire issue is all about a sense of entitlement. Nsxotic911 feels entitled to have some sort of set of rights. And since he feels entitled to these rights, he feels entitled to make demands that the site should be run in a manner more befitting to his needs and requirements. However, I am baffled as to why he feels entitled to any of this or as to where the idea of these “rights” come even from. He is not a part owner or creator of this site. He has not donated any money to this site. This is not a public service. It is not funded by tax dollars. He doesn’t do any site maintenance or server upgrades/work. As far as I can tell he uses this site for his own benefit; just as I would argue the rest of us do.

It’s time for a reality check and understand that this site is a service to us. It was created and developed out of the generosity of a person who thought to share his idea and talents for the benefit of others, and the volunteers that help keep this party train rolling. We are the beneficiaries of other people generosity in time and money, and as such, we have no rights. If anything, we are indebted to this site for the services and entertainment it has provided us. How rude would it be if someone cooked you dinner for free and you had the gall to complain about how it didn’t have enough of a particular spices for your palette. It’s one thing if you politely inject a suggestion as to a personal preference, to which you cannot be offended if it isn’t heeded. It’s another thing if you demand about something you are not satisfied with and openly complain about in the face of the person providing it to you, whether it be a dinner or a website. It’s time to lose the sense of entitlement and realize our place on this site. If the owner/operator of this site chose to close it down or turn it into a Dodge SRT forum overnight, who are we to say anything about it? It’s their choice and if we don’t like it we are more than welcome to leave at any time.

I'm not trying to offend nsxotic911 nor single him out, but I think it just need to be said and reminded that we are all guests here, not majority share holders or managing partners, and we should all understand that we are not entitled to anything while we are here.

 

[docjohn]

Cmon.... No and I mean no heavily political thread on prime ever ends well.Those with time and typing skills think they are winning ,but the rest of us have to endure pure retinal pain.None of you will ever change each others views,you won't win any prizes.If you need to vent go yell at the forest.

 

[quack]

Cmon.... No and I mean no heavily political thread on prime ever ends well.Those with time and typing skills think they are winning ,but the rest of us have to endure pure retinal pain.None of you will ever change each others views,you won't win any prizes.If you need to vent go yell at the forest.

+1

This is why phpbb has the ignore user options.

Also most of the arguments are pointless as 90% of them over 2 pages on prime evolve to godwin's law which makes them moot. It cracks me up when I see it happen.

 

[queenlives]

Also most of the arguments are pointless as 90% of them over 2 pages on prime evolve to godwin's law which makes them moot. It cracks me up when I see it happen.

thx for this. i had to look it up, so for those who are not familiar with godwin's law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[HIJACKER]

Most forums I've ever been a part of split into two categories:

They either have:
Off Topic
The Lounge

or
Off Topic
Politics - Domestic/ Foreign


I personally prefer the Off Topic and Lounge setup. Off topic is basically "anything goes", typically daily bullshit, jokes, naughty pictures, complaints, whatever you can think of with VERY little if any moderation. The Lounge on the other hand is very strict and more so the place where people typically ask for relationship advice, discuss politics and debate views, etc. Basically, if you're going to be negative about a political view in the Lounge you better be prepared to back it up with reasons why.

It's actually a very enjoyable setup and has worked REALLY well. Even though the "Lounge" moderators obviously have their own views, the moderation is EXTREMELY fair and very unbaised and based stricktly on actions.

 

[docjohn]

Again you are all missing the very big picture which is ..."this is and was a site dedicated to all things nsx period" Not my words mind you.Now every time the site owner/creator has had to chime in personaly he always ends his discussion with something to that effect.....Of course all the new members who think they have found a home on prime may miss this important point.:wink:

 

[nsx2tall]

I don't really mind any longer. Anyone who posts politics (or more accurately reposts someone else's opinions) is on my ignore list.