Trans replaced, but has a snap-ring range S/N?

[tpearsall]

I bought a '91 with 82k miles that is in snap-ring range last week, but it is in such great shape inside and out I took a chance on it. Since I bought it from a dealer I don't have any of the maintainence records on it and wanted to see if the 60k or 90k had been done. I knew the general area the last two owners lived in and started calling Acura dealers to see if anyone had service records.

As it turns out one of the dealers had installed a transmission the owner had provided. I'm assuming since the snap-ring is an issue with the trans casing that I still have a trans (rebuilt maybe) that is a potential snap-ring problem.

Am I on the right track? Other ideas or concerns I should have? Could they have have verified the trans is OK?

Thanks,
Todd

 

[salontools]

This is a tough one.
I assume the replaced transmission has a serial number that puts it in the snap ring range.
I would ask the dealer to put you in touch with the previous owner.
The only way to verify if the current transmission was repaired is to take it apart or find out if it was taken apart.
Any idea of the mileage on the current trans?

 

[tpearsall]

>>I assume the replaced transmission has a serial number that puts it in the snap ring range.
Yup

>>The only way to verify if the current transmission was repaired is to take it apart or find out if it was taken apart.
How do you repair it? I was under the impression you had to replace the housing which would mean it no longer would have the snap-ring range serial number.

>>Any idea of the mileage on the current trans?
Not a clue, but it must be from a '91 or '92 based on the range.

The car seems to have been well cared for so I don't think there was any foul play. Although the trans work was done 5 months before it was sold.

Before I knew about the trans replacement someone I had look at it said the trans had been apart based on the wrench marks on the bolt heads.

Just occurred to me that if the trans was replaced a few months ago then why is the clutch near the end of it's life. (Starting to get a bad feeling now)

Thanks for the response!
- Todd

 

[salontools]

How do you repair it? I was under the impression you had to replace the housing which would mean it no longer would have the snap-ring range serial number.

>> I don't remember about the housing issue. Check th FAQ on this site.

Before I knew about the trans replacement someone I had look at it said the trans had been apart based on the wrench marks on the bolt heads.

>>Sounds possible.

Just occurred to me that if the trans was replaced a few months ago then why is the clutch near the end of it's life. (Starting to get a bad feeling now)

>>They probably did not replace the clutch knowing they were going to sell it.
Bob
'94 All green / tan

 

[NormRD]

I believe when they change the housing for a snap ring repair only the bottom half of the trans case is replaced. The top half stays the same which is also the part with the serial number.



------------------
92 Red/Blk

 

[ACR_Motorsports]

Where was the car previously?

Originally posted by tpearsall:
I bought a '91 with 82k miles that is in snap-ring range last week, but it is in such great shape inside and out I took a chance on it. Since I bought it from a dealer I don't have any of the maintainence records on it and wanted to see if the 60k or 90k had been done. I knew the general area the last two owners lived in and started calling Acura dealers to see if anyone had service records.

As it turns out one of the dealers had installed a transmission the owner had provided. I'm assuming since the snap-ring is an issue with the trans casing that I still have a trans (rebuilt maybe) that is a potential snap-ring problem.

Am I on the right track? Other ideas or concerns I should have? Could they have have verified the trans is OK?

Thanks,
Todd

------------------
www.acrmotorsports.com / 949-929-8973

 

[tpearsall]

>> I don't remember about the housing issue. Check th FAQ on this site.

Maybe I used the wrong terms or maybe I'm not understanding the snap-ring issue. From the FAQ the problem is in the groove cut in the casing. So I assume the only "fix" is to replace the casing.

>>They probably did not replace the clutch knowing they were going to sell it.
That makes sense and I like that idea much more then someone pulling a fast one.

Thanks again,
Todd

 

[tpearsall]

>>NormRD: I believe when they change the housing for a snap ring repair only the bottom half of the trans case is replaced. The top half stays the same which is also the part with the serial number.
That would be very cool!!

>>ACR_Motorsports: Where was the car previously?
Virginia Beach, VA

- Todd

 

[NormRD]

Not 100% sure but when I had my snap ring break and had the transmissing case replaced. (Have the old case in my garage) If you look from the top of the engine compartment for the serial number the old number is still there. So I am guessing that the part that has the serial number isn't changed out.

------------------
92 Red/Blk

 

[Larry Bastanza]

The transmission case is two pieces. The bell housing part and the "back" part that is on the drivers side of the car.

The back part of the case (WITHOUT THE SERIAL NUMBER) is the part that needs replacing.

So unfortunately this is hard to figure out. If the person that rebuilt the trans was clear on the issue then the case half should look newer (maybe

).

There have been reports of some people tearing down the trans and replacing the snapring and calling it fixed, sorry, no sale.

So, you need to try to find who did it and ask what they actually did. If this is to no avail, just drive the car and enjoy it. Ideally you would like to see a bill with the trans case half part number on it. It lists for about $700 and change.

Do not waste your money now, to do a preventative repair, it may never fail.

Maybe the Forums Nazi can provide the link where this is discussed by Mark Basch in detail, with his advise. I am sure he has it memorized by now!!!

HTH,
LarryB

 

[tpearsall]

Thanks everyone for all of the information.

- Todd

 

[Forums Nazi]

Originally posted by Larry Bastanza:
Maybe the Forums Nazi can provide the link where this is discussed by Mark Basch in detail, with his advise. I am sure he has it memorized by now!!!

Click here.

 

[nsxtasy]

Based on Mark's advice, I would suggest that you replace the transmission half-case and the snap ring when you have the clutch replaced. That would save most of the labor, I think...

 

[tpearsall]

Great info. Can anyone tell me the exact part number or part name of the section of the case that needs to be replaced? So far I've heard: half-case, back-part and upper-section. I don't want to be added to the list of "bad SRF repairs"

I'm very happy with the shop I found to work on my recently purchased '91. The owner has a decent amount of NSX experience and he is aware of the SRF issue, but I'd still like to give him all the information I can. (He'll be getting a copy of Mark Basch's write-up.)

Thanks,
Todd

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Todd,

For a 1991/2 the number is 21200-PR8-000. This info in available here on the home page, "Parts Catalog, 1991" on the left side hot link.

It is hard to read so I copied the image and blew it up to read the part number. ALWAYS verify, if you are going to order it.

I really recommend you do not do this now. Your clutch may fail before the snapring, IF the snapring will fail, which is questionable. If you have a reason the have the trans out, change it, otherwise drive it!

I believe this is Mark's recommendation.

Just an FYI, I have a 1991 in the range, I have 32K miles, do not baby it, and all is well so far. I am convinced my clutch will go first, just my gut feeling.

HTH,
LarryB

[This message has been edited by Larry Bastanza (edited 22 August 2002).]

 

[tpearsall]

Thanks for the part #. I need to replace the clutch shortly and am considering doing the case then since they need to pull the trans anyway, right?

- Todd

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Correct, Todd.

This would be the most cost effective way to handle it. Make sure you shop for the price on the case half. Through the "discount" dealers you should be able to get it for $500 or less. I recall Tracy from GUNN quoting me $473 a year ago. I still do not need it though!

Go on this site is look up the service bulletin in regard to this. There are a few additional parts you will need for the swap, seals, bearing, etc. They are not big ticket items, but required to do the job correctly.

Also, you might want to consider a trans from Mark Basch. He has a swap program available and can ship directly to where you are having the work done.

So they can pop the trans and clutch in easily, and you will know the trans has been done by a very experienced tech.

HTH,
LarryB

[This message has been edited by Larry Bastanza (edited 22 August 2002).]

 

[Nsx Service Girl]

1- AC21200-PR8-000 CASE, TRANSMISS
2-AC91207-PR8-005 OIL SEAL 42X63
3- AC90602-PR8-000 RING, SNAP 68M
4-AC91215-PR8-005 OIL SEAL
5-AC94109-14000 WASHER 14MM
6- AC1010 5W30 UNIT
7- AC41490-PR8-000 SHIM J 75MM

This is the parts list for the last couple of snap ring "preventative" repairs done while replacing clutches.
Get me your VIN number, I'd like to see if there is any record of transmission work registered with Acura.

 

[matteni]

BTW - I too have a 91' with 45,000 (a fair number being track miles) and am on the original clutch and transmission case (snap ring range and all).

I am praying this does not jinx me!

------------------
Nick M

91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Larry Bastanza:
Go on this site is look up the service bulletin in regard to this.

If I'm not mistaken, the service bulletin tells you to replace the entire transmission (which is NOT necessary).

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Ken,

The service bulletin offers two alternatives:

1: replace whole trans

2: changes case and assorted parts (and they are listed)

The reason for #1 was if a trans failed, Acura did not want trans teardowns done at the dealer level, they thought they would end up with too many call backs.

So #1 was sanctioned by Acura. The fact is #2 will actually work in all cases(no pun intended!) if you are skilled at the work.

I know Mark B. has cut the back off many cases to get them apart and result in a perfect repair, using #2.

I actually still have one of those cases in my garage from when I was doing my snapring project to try to determine failures before they happened.

LarryB



[This message has been edited by Larry Bastanza (edited 23 August 2002).]

 

[tpearsall]

Nsx Service Girl,
Thanks for the offer to look up the VIN: JH4NA1155MT003157.

All,
I went to a dealer hoping to get a full service history on it, but they said they could only report on what was done locally. I then called the Acura service number on the main Acrua web site and they confirmed that the service records are not reported back from the dealership. Is that consistent with what others understand? I was surprised to hear it.

Thanks,
Todd

 

[Nsx Service Girl]

Todd,
I checked the Acura Link data base, there is no warranty repair history for your car. FYI, Warranty repair history is shared as such, but CUSTOMER pay repairs and service are individual to each dealer.

Now I'm very curious...why the need to replace original trans? Did it have even have a failure? Did they install short gears? Did the dealer that completed the installation have a recorded reason? The documented complaint could shed some light. The only way to know without tear down, is to talk with the previous owner.
Sorry,I can't assist anymore than that

If you decide to install a new case with your next clutch, don't forget to put in a new rear main seal.

 

[tpearsall]

Thanks for clearing up the warranty vs. customer paid service history question. That makes sense.

I bought the car from a dealer, so I didn't have contact with the prior owner and received no service records. I did some investigation with some dealers where I bought the car.

In Feb one dealer checked it out and said it needed a trans, timing belt and stereo. But didn't do any work on it. He is supposed to pull the service record to find out why it needed to be replaced and get back to me.

In March another dealer in the area installed a trans provided by the owner.

Also in March a reputible transmission place sold the own a used transmission-not a rebuilt

.

Good thing I did the homework after the purchase not before. The odd thing to me is that they replaced to trans, but not the clutch. I assume they already planned on trading it in and saved a few bucks.

The timing belt I'm having done (60k and 90k service) and I can't figure out what the stereo problm is was. It still has the stock Bose stereo and all speakers work except the one between the seats. The one behind the seat as disconnected, I reconnected and it still didn't make any sound and haven't gotten back to it again. (low priority, rather listen to engine anyway)

My local guy who does a lot of Honda/Acura race cars and several NSXs says the trans has been opened (wrench marks on bolts I believe). But now I'm stuck not knowing if it could have a potential snap ring problem or not since the trans is in range, but has been opened and presumably could have had the needed part of the case replaced since the part with the serial number, does not need to be replaced.

The fun never ends. I plan to bite the bullet and change the case and other parts when the clutch is done.

Related question: I understand the Snap Ring problem with the 2 blades before they were combined into a single piece. I would expect that all trans up to serial XXX would have the problem. Why are there earlier trans numbers that are not in range?


Thanks,
Todd

 

[nsxtasy]

Thanks for the clarification about the TSB, Larry.

Originally posted by tpearsall:
I understand the Snap Ring problem with the 2 blades before they were combined into a single piece. I would expect that all trans up to serial XXX would have the problem. Why are there earlier trans numbers that are not in range?

Read the description in the FAQ here. There is a machine that was cutting the transmission case. At one point towards the end of the 1991 model year, that machine went out of adjustment, and the way it made a measurement to keep itself in adjustment was in error. So before that point, all transmission cases were cut fine; after that point, the machine went in and out of adjustment as it cut the transmission cases, until the problem was discovered and fixed.