Trader rating for vendors

RSO 34 · 28 August 2004

I have voiced my opinion on several occasions about Dali delivery problems and I admit that each time I do so I say it will be the last. However, I find it offensive that his "trader rating" has been artificially, and possibly falsely, pumped up by multiple postings (APPROXIMATELY 70!) from one person on 8/26. Each "positive" review is merely a link to the Dali site for numerous items that I wonder if all were ever purchased by this Prime member posting all of those reviews. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/traderratings.php?u=4287

I do not profess to know the relationship between Dali and this "trader rating" post tout but I question the business ethics of such a misleading attempt to "encourage" business from Prime members and visitors.

Russ · 28 August 2004

RSO 34 said:
I do not profess to know the relationship between Dali and this "trader rating" post whore but I question the business ethics of such a misleading attempt to "encourage" business from Prime members and visitors.

An analysis of the poster's IP address(es) might reveal the identity of the person(s) involved in this abuse and the relationship to Dali.

apapada · 28 August 2004

this poster seems to be a big UK customer of Dali. here is his profile as posted on prime.

Casper91 · 28 August 2004

WOW!
ctrlaltdelboy sure was busy on 8/26. And with a trader rating of...
zero?

nsxnut · 29 August 2004

I agree... I think that you should only post one rating per transaction.

I posted an negitive raiting that day. It is to bad that I had to do this.
I would much rather post a positive responce.

Later,
Don Templeton

whiteNSXs · 29 August 2004

ctrlaltdelboy again proved himself a troll with absolutely no credibility. It seems that the only reason for him on Prime is to make fruitless defenses for that Dali thief.
Steve

ctrlaltdelboy · 29 August 2004

what a fantastic community I find myself a part of here

unless I am very much mistaken, free speech is still not only legal in both our countries but encouraged in life and on this forum.

it is a shame that because my views regarding Dali differ from some peoples around here that I have now been labelled a troll and a whore.

my understanding of the trader rating system is that when someone buys or sells from another member, they can post a positive negative or neutral remark regaring the transaction together with a link as relevant.

if my understanding is incorrect, then I am more than happy to apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick, and if this is the case, could someone please direct me to a post detailing a correct explanation of how the system should be used.

if through my misunderstanding (if indeed this is the case) my comments are deemed inappropriate, then I'm sure an admin person can come along and remove the offending posts.

whitwNSXs - I was not aware that I had ever proved myself a troll with absolutely no credibility in the past, could you please enlighten me on which previous occasions this alleged proof was established?

nsxnut - my understanding is the same as yours, that you should only post one rating per transaction - I think you'll find that is exactly what I've done - if it offends you that I have made over 70 successful purchases from Dali, there's not much that I can do about that.

Russ - no IP searches necessary, I have nothing to hide - I do not see any abuse occuring here, but if I am wrong in my understanding of this I am more than happy to defer to the opinion of admin. My relationship to Dali (since you clearly have not figured this out for yourself) is as happy customer - sorry if you find such a concept so hard to believe.

RSO 34 - probably the most important LIE in your opening post of this thread in which you saw fit to trash my reputation - Dali's (NSXGOD's) trader rating has not increased artificially or otherwise through my legitimate postings - he was on a 6 before, and he was on a 6 when I finished, because only 1 positive (or negative) post per member counts towards the overall rating - since I had already made a positive comment about Mark many months ago NONE of the posts which I made recently about all of my individual purchases have made the slightest difference to his overall rating which remained the same.
You question the business ethics of my posts regarding my great purchases from Dali - I don't understand - how can a customer using the trader rating system to rate the trader in respect of each of the purchases made from said trader be in the realms of business ethics anyway? I think you are confused or paranoid or both - no flames, just stating my opinion (am I still allowed to have one? I do wonder

)

I don't see anything misleading here or any attempts at anything other that posting details and links about the items I have purchased with great satifaction over the last 2 years.

chill out please you lot

edited: I fixed the BB code on the rolling eyes and clarified the trader count thing for RSO 34

ctrlaltdelboy · 29 August 2004

whiteNSXs said:
It seems that the only reason for him on Prime is to make fruitless defenses for that Dali thief.

ctrlaltdelboy · 29 August 2004

Woohoo!!

in the last 10 minutes my reputation has gone from -1 (it was neutral yesterday before this thread appeared

) to -10

I'm such a bad person

chastise me why don't you for having an opinion different from yours.

I don't know if anyone told you guys, but in a democracy people are not necessarily bad just because they don't share your views.

I challenge anyone of you cowards hiding behind your keyboards to prove that you are not (a coward) and own up to giving me a bad reputaion point and state EXACTLY what I have done (apart from sharing my honest opinion) that is SOOOOO bad.

what a wonderful community this has become

RSO 34 · 29 August 2004

You have to admit that it was your intention to pump up his rating with multiple positive comments. Whether or not it increases the actual final "number" under this system it still "inflates" his reputation "artificially" because all of those posts are by the same person. It also appears that it was done in response to this other thread commenting upon the "Christmas tree" image projected by widely divergent experiences. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39598

It is obvious that you have been one of the lucky ones to actually get your orders and receive responses to your inquiries.

I believe you will recall an earlier thread about clutch core credit, http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20947, where you managed to get yours but yet Dali ignores other members who are owed money.

I am sure you can understand the frustration of multiple NSX owners and Prime members who have not been so fortunate as you. Perhaps you might show some concern for your fellow owners who have been unsuccessful in obtaining products/refunds or even getting returned calls/emails by speaking with Mark who obviously listens to and corresponds with you.

This has been a heated issue for years only because MJ refuses to have a consistent business pattern with ALL owners. Those who have good experiences excoriate the rest who are simply stating they want the same treatment - either send the order or refund the money. This should not even be an issue on this forum and could be put to rest once and for all if the MJ supporters actually used their collective buying influence and convinced MJ to bring ALL accounts up to date.

D'Ecosse · 29 August 2004

ctrlaltdelboy said:
in the last 10 minutes my reputation has gone from -1 (it was neutral yesterday before this thread appeared ) to -10
what a wonderful community this has become

Whatever our community thinks of Dali, I don't see that ctrlaltdelboy has really done anything wrong. He has reported his experiences, which others may or not have shared. It may have been somewhat zealous, however what did he really do that was wrong? - if this had been some other vendor someone had reported on, would it have generated this response? Is it the act of posting 70 comments that is the primary offense here or because it was posted to Dali?
It seems that there was initial inference this was all "made-up" with no real transactions having occurred. There is nothing to suggest that & is purely speculative.
Conversely, in negatively loading his reputation, I can't find any merit - very disappointing response from our community. Is this what is going to happen any time we find ourselves in disagreement? Does this now mean that my rating will now similarly suffer?
This is nothing to do with any opinion of Dali's business practices - I am reluctant to purchase there any more, despite having had no personal issues with my previous transactions, but there's enough reported problems to make me want to do business elsewhere. I shouldn't feel it necessary to add this post-script - unfortunately it needs to be stated to dismiss the supposition I'm just a die-hard Dali supporter. This post has nothing to do with my opinions of Dali one way or the other - it's simply a condemnation of the resultant reaction from the community by loading someone's reputation, in my opinion, undeservedly.

RSO 34 · 29 August 2004

My original post was made to point out the 70 posts done by one person who seemed to be representating an unusually large amount of transactions for someone with a "zero" trader rating. It now appears that he has had many transactions with MJ so to the extent that the original post was erroneous in my initial reaction and opinion I apologize.

However, I still take issue with the utilization of the trader rating system in such a fashion as to itemize each purported transaction which has been done in an apparent deliberate attempt to portray this vendor in a more positive light. I could have broken down my negative experience into individual items but that would be an unfair increase in negative posts.

In fairness to all members who review any vendor's trading rating I would have the same reaction if this were done with someone other than Dali. This is similar to the "artificial" increases in the "reputations" of ebay sellers who then trade upon this "show of support" to lure unsuspecting buyers into transactions.

D'Ecosse · 29 August 2004

RSO 34 said:
In fairness to all members who review any vendor's trading rating I would have the same reaction if this were done with someone other than Dali. This is similar to the "artificial" increases in the "reputations" of ebay sellers who then trade upon this "show of support" to lure unsuspecting buyers into transactions.

I completely agree with this - where do we draw the line on what is "artificial" however?
WhiteNSX's for example has several multiple ratings by the same individuals all posted on the same day - OK, it's not 70, but is the principal not the same? (this is not a slam on you or your credibility Steve - just the system) Also, there is something inconsistent with the system when whiteNSX's score is posted as 25, not 18 which is the net result, as has been used in the Dali case.
I'm not condemning the reactions in the thread so much as the reaction to loading the reputation.

RSO 34 · 29 August 2004

D'Ecosse said:
I'm not condemning the reactions in the thread so much as the reaction to loading the reputation.

I have no problem admitting that I am one of the negative posters in his reputation category but for a different reason than some might suspect.

My personal opinion of a member who will tout another person who is known to owe money/goods to other members of our community is that the touter's reputation should be called into question. If I heard that a friend of mine refused to refund money owed to you, I would intercede on your behalf long before I would ever attempt to boost the reputation of my friend in our community.

Once again, that is just my personal sense of what is "right". Others may disagree but I truly believe that it is inappropriate to utilize the trader rating system in such a fashion as to almost "ridicule" members who are owed money by lauding the business practices of a vendor without first attempting to utilize their relationship to resolve these conflicts. This is more indicative of a narcissistic attitude that reflects poorly upon the reputation of the poster.

RSO 34 · 29 August 2004

D'Ecosse said:
Also, there is something inconsistent with the system when whiteNSX's score is posted as 25, not 18 which is the net result, as has been used in the Dali case.

Actually, when you click on his profile it shows the "net" score of 18.

Plus, it appears that the reputation rating system may have had a glitch because his rating is back to "neutral."

RichH · 29 August 2004

"Don't be hatin"

The title of this thread should be altered. I like mine better.

In my opinion, Chattleboy has as much right to speak of his positive experience as others have to voice their negative. If it is within the rules, so be it. If people object (do a poll) change the rules.

The verbal attacks "whore" and "troll" should be apoligized for, this list is getting way too harse and sensitive.

After all it is only car stuff. Many of us have posted things we wish we could take back.

Some of us just need to lighten up, get away from the keyboards more and go drive the cars.

Chattleboy, free speech does still exist here in the USA, I will apologize to you if others will not. Come over to NSXPO and have a pint.

Cheers
RCH

D'Ecosse · 29 August 2004

RSO 34 said:
Actually, when you click on his profile it shows the "net" score of 18.

Yes, but on his avatar at the side of his posts it displays 25, while Dali's displays 7 - that is where the inconsistency is. It appears (may be wrong) that this new rule was put in specifically because of the ctrlaltdelboy ratings (I thought I saw Dali's at 70 yesterday), however it has not been applied universally as demonstrated regrading whiteNSX's example.

RSO 34 said:
Plus, it appears that the reputation rating system may have had a glitch because his rating is back to "neutral."

My understanding of how it works - Only the user can see the individual ratings - each "square" accounts for 10 ratings - howver a first rating gets the user off the mark with a green square, then needs 10 to get to an additional square. I'm not certain how it works in negative - I assumed that to get the red square that was displayed earlier it was because of the -10. It would only need a single positive addition to make it -9 net, which I think is a "neutral overall"?

RSO 34 · 29 August 2004

D'Ecosse said:
Only the user can see the individual ratings - each "square" accounts for 10 ratings - howver a first rating gets the user off the mark with a green square, then needs 10 to get to an additional square. I'm not certain how it works in negative - I assumed that to get the red square that was displayed earlier it was because of the -10. It would only need a single positive addition to make it -9 net, which I think is a "neutral overall"?

If you put the cursor over the square of any member you can see the "score." His is now at "0".

docjohn · 29 August 2004

If someone buys 20 lugnuts and recieves all 20 in one order how many trader ratings are you allowed to give,some may say one like myself but others might say 20

D'Ecosse · 29 August 2004

Re: Dali shill?!?!?!?!?

RSO 34 said:
If you put the cursor over the square of any member you can see the "score." His is now at "0".

Mine (& yours incidentally) says (1)+; in my case it is because I have more than 1 & less than 10 feedback. I'm sure yours is similar.
ctrlaltdelboy's I assume has a "net" of less than 0, more than -10.

edit - I'm not so sure now regarding ctrlaltdelboy's net score, but the point is it's only the number of "boxes" that anyone can see. Other than a single positive, reputation score accumulates in blocks of 10.

RSO 34 · 29 August 2004

Actually, I believe the "-" is merely a hyphen in that situation and not intended to be a sign for "negative." It is the same for all "unrated" members. If nothing else, it is confusing because it is subject to various interpretations.

EDIT: Oops, you got your edit in before I finished my post.

whiteNSXs · 29 August 2004

whiteNSXs said:
ctrlaltdelboy again proved himself a troll with absolutely no credibility. It seems that the only reason for him on Prime is to make fruitless defenses for that Dali thief.
Steve

I am sorry. I shouldn't have used the word "again" and "troll." But your action and intention was indeed to artificially boost the rating of Dali. I highly doubt that Dali shipped you 70+ times(transactions), but perhaps there are 70+ pieces all together.
Perhaps I should contact ALL my previous buyers/sellers to itemize EVERY single piece and give me rating on each item. ie. Lud should give me 34 positive ratings for buying my HID kit.
Yes, you have your free speech but you ABUSED the rating system. In fact, you are supposed to get one point for each entry. You intended to give Dali 70+ points but you failed. Reason is simple, moderator blocked your unethical attempt. Do you think they are stupid or something?

Steve

D'Ecosse · 29 August 2004

RSO 34 said:
Actually, I believe the "-" is merely a hyphen in that situation and not intended to be a sign for "negative." It is the same for all "unrated" members. If nothing else, it is confusing because it is subject to various interpretations.

EDIT: Oops, you got your edit in before I finished my post.

Yes, we made the same realization - I noticed that the "+" is contained within the brackets i.e. (1+).
The system is a little confusing & perhaps there is also some moderation at play we are not seeing?
We should end on that note - we both agree on something!

whiteNSXs · 29 August 2004

docjohn said:
If someone buys 20 lugnuts and recieves all 20 in one order how many trader ratings are you allowed to give,some may say one like myself but others might say 20

Hey Doc,
Remember the bag of peanuts I gave you for your birthday? Positive trader's ratings please and please describe how every piece tastes.
Steve

nsxtasy · 29 August 2004

nsxnut said:
I think that you should only post one rating per transaction.

I think each user should be limited to posting one rating per vendor, regardless of how many transactions he has.

Trader rating for vendors

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