track tires

Joined
7 September 2002
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21
I am getting ready for some track days at Blackhawk farms and Road America and I have to replace my S03's. They don't make my size anymore so I was looking for some advise. I need 215/40/17 and 265/35/18
I was interested in anyone with experience on the track with Toyo T1S vs
kumho ECTSA MX. My brother drives a C5 corvette and the Kumho's are awesome they also get great reviews on tire rack. Any opinions?
Thanks!
Mark:rolleyes:
 
The kumho is better on dry and the toyo is better on wet. :biggrin:

To add to that, even though I liked and still run the Kumho mx on the street and I recommend it to a lot of people. Do not, repeat DO NOT run it in full tread.

There is a little too much tire tread squirm, and it could really rob some of your confidence.
 
I am getting ready for some track days at Blackhawk farms and Road America and I have to replace my S03's. They don't make my size anymore so I was looking for some advise. I need 215/40/17 and 265/35/18
I was interested in anyone with experience on the track with Toyo T1S vs
kumho ECTSA MX. My brother drives a C5 corvette and the Kumho's are awesome they also get great reviews on tire rack. Any opinions?
Thanks!
Mark:rolleyes:
Short answer: In your case, I recommend either the Falken Azenis RT-615 or the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3, instead of either of these tires. Both the Falken and the Goodyear will give you better performance than either the MX or the T1-R (Toyo's replacement for the now-discontinued T1-S). The Goodyear is similar to the S-03; the Falken is stickier on dry pavement, but worse in rain and wears a LOT faster.

Now, for the long explanation...

First of all, the tires you're asking about are all "street tires". When people mention "track tires", they are usually referring to special "R compound" tires whose rapid treadwear makes them unsuitable for daily driving. The tires you're asking about are street tires that can be used every day.

Lots of very good tires are available for the NSX, and my summarized recommendations are bolded below. I'll confine the discussion to summer tires, under the assumption that you do not drive your NSX in snow or frigid cold (or you have winter tires for that purpose), so you do not need all-season tires.

Summer tires tend to break down into three broad categories:

a. Specialty tires with exceptional traction and handling on dry pavement. These tires are almost like track tires. Their downsides are that they tend to wear rapidly and are not all that great in rain or on wet pavement. The best of these overall is the Falken Azenis RT-615; other decent choices include the BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD, Bridgestone RE-01R, and Yokohama Advan Neova AD07. (The latter two are not available in North America in NSX sizes.)

b. Top-of-the-line tires with excellent traction and handling on dry pavement, outstanding traction and handling on wet pavement, and very good treadlife ("very good" being a relative term on the NSX ;) ). The only downside is that they tend to be expensive. The best of these include the OEM tires for the NSX (Yokohama A022H and Bridgestone Potenza RE010 for the '91-01 sizes, Bridgestone Potenza RE040 for the '02-05 sizes) and the Goodyear F1 GS-D3. (The Goodyear F1 GS-D3 won the recent comparison test of eleven top-of-the-line tires in Car and Driver.) Other decent choices include the Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position, Michelin Pilot Sport PS2, and Dunlop SP Sport Maxx.

c. "Budget performance tires" which are designed to offer good performance at a lower price. With the best of these, their performance (both dry and wet) is quite good although not at a level of the tires in the previous category. The best tires in this performance category include the Kumho Ecsta SPT, Yokohama ES100, Avon Tech M500, Dunlop Direzza DZ101, Falken FK-452, Toyo T1-R, Bridgestone Potenza RE750, and BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW2. All offer similar performance. The first five tend to cost less than the last three, and the Kumho SPT tends to be the least expensive of all of these.

So then it's a matter of deciding which tire category is best for you:

a. If you want the absolutely best traction on dry pavement, and you're willing to give up wet traction and treadlife for it, then go with category (a) and the Falken Azenis RT-615.

b. If you want excellent dry traction and wet traction and treadlife, then go with category (b) and either the OEM tires or the Goodyear F1 GS-D3.

c. If you're willing to accept somewhat lower performance in exchange for a lower purchase price for your tires, then go with category (c) and the Kumho SPT.
(Personally, I don't see much point in spending a lot of money on a high-performance car like an NSX, only to then degrade its performance in order to save a few bucks on tires, but hey, different strokes...) (It's also worth noting that if you're going to use your car for an occasional track event, you should probably avoid this category entirely.)

All three of these tires - Falken Azenis RT-615, Goodyear F1 GS-D3, and Kumho SPT - are available in 215/40-17 and 265/35-18. The OEM tires are not available in 18" sizes.
 
Thanks for all the input!
So after reading the car and driver piece... Do we have any comparison data out there on the Falken's? I'm really wanting an awesome summer dry weather tire for track and street use but I'm not ready to run R compounds yet.
Mark
 
Thanks again
The links from "polar" we're great
I checked all the prices and the Falkens are about $100 front $220 rear
That's hard to beat especially with all the great feedback
I think I'll try these and after a few events this year I'll post some feedback and comparison thoughts versus my old S03's
Thanks again
Any thoughts on where to buy ? It looks like vulcan has some great prices
Mark
 
Do we have any comparison data out there on the Falken's? I'm really wanting an awesome summer dry weather tire for track and street use but I'm not ready to run R compounds yet.
Yes, we have the tire test in Grassroots Motorsports.

ADVAN AD048 soft compound
Sounds like you didn't bother reading the topic. He doesn't want R compound track tires yet. The A048 (that's what it's called) is an R compound track tire.

Another good tire is Potenza RE-01R.
In North America, the RE01R is not available in the best sizes for the NSX.

Any thoughts on where to buy ? It looks like vulcan has some great prices
Yes, Vulcan's prices are as good as anyplace. Other places that sell the Azenis include Discount Tire and Edge Racing, or you can look on Falken's website to locate a local dealer in your area.
 
I'm on the different side of the fence...

I will recommend something that won't cost you arm and leg, yet, provide you good enough traction and handling characteristics. When you felt the tires can't do the job... well, jump to easy R tires like RA1... then upgrade them to hoosier, NT01, A048, or the new R888 when you make consistant lap times and you now going for track lap records...

For your first year of track, it should work fine. (Which worked perfectly fine for me.) In the beginner or intermediate groups, a stock nsx (with stock tires, which are very good tires.) could be very intimadating. Well heck, I will say the Falken 615, AD07, GSD3..etc will also get you very very fast.

The KUMHO MX is dead last in the C/D comparison, (even though they didn't "track" tested them, but in auto X settings; so as all the tirerack testing.) I remembered with my unmodified nsx with I/H/E... I didn't ever get passed by anyone in my intermediate days... any tires better than that will get you going for higher speed/lower lap times/greater risks.

I still don't have any courage of getting any better tires than my MX... On the street, at least in my local clubs, there were hardly anyone (with alledgely better tires) driving any faster than me... These tires already give me double or triple the posted speed limit with no problem... Do I wanted to get arrested? So why do I want to spend the extra money????



I guessed, To really answer your question, YOU HAVE TO DECIDE what you want to archeive on your track days???

1. You want to be a better driver, and learn at one step at a time.

2. I'm a good driver, and I want to prove to my peers that I (and the nsx) kick ass... don't really cared or want to spend too much track time.

3. I don't drive my car much on the street, nor I will be a frequent track rat. So a one time upgrade is what I needed.

All 3 requires different approaches, thus different tire choices..
 
Bridgestone RE-01R, and Yokohama Advan Neova AD07. (The latter two are not available in North America in NSX sizes.)

:confused: I'm running Neovas AD07's right now?:confused:
 
nsxtasy said:
Bridgestone RE-01R, and Yokohama Advan Neova AD07. (The latter two are not available in North America in NSX sizes.)
:confused: I'm running Neovas AD07's right now?:confused:
For 16" front wheels, the NSX needs 205/45-16 or 215/45-16 tires; for 17" front wheels, it needs 215/40-17 tires; for 18" front wheels, it needs 215/35-18 tires. NONE of these sizes are available in the AD07 in North America. Not even close. The smallest sizes available will all rub (BIG TIME!) on the wheel well liners and fenders.
 
NONE of these sizes are available in the AD07 in North America. Not even close. The smallest sizes available will all rub (BIG TIME!) on the wheel well liners and fenders.

Geez.... You're right! Very limited selection of AD07 on tirerack. I wonder why they didn't offer the full line to the US?! :confused: Maybe the rest are not DOT approved??:eek:

Want me to send you some? hehe

Henry.
 
I have Bridgestone Potenza RE010 in the front and just recently replaced my rear tires with the Goodyear F1 GS-D3. Love the performance of the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 on dry and wet pavement. I am hoping to get twice the tread life out of the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 compared to the Bridgestone Potenza RE010. I got 13,000 miles out of my rear tires, and 12,000 miles out of my front tires from my previous set of Bridgestone Potenza RE010. Also love the tread pattern on the Goodyear F1 GS-D3.
 
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