Track Ready?

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ken sampson

Experienced Member
Joined
10 November 2003
Messages
1,066
I want to start tracking my NSX a few times a year and have some questions.
I'm not worried about my motor it seems very solid. My gears have been changed out for the 4:23 1:5 way LSD and shocks are Bilstein 1" drop. I also have heavier sway bars and the Comptech non-compliance rear beam. So without experience I guess brakes and tires are my biggest concern. I have no idea what type of tires to look for and I have WP-PRO brakes so I will talk to them about the brakes first. Can anyone recommend tires and anything else I have overlooked? I am going to install a roll bar if I can find someone who makes them for the NSX.
 
I would say your fine suspension and engine wise. Have you gotten the car aligned since you installed the new parts?

As far as brakes i'm not sure what the WP-PRO are, but upgraded fluid, pads, and lines will give you solid braking on the track (assuming you pick a pad that is suited for the track).

As for tires it depends on what you want to spend. I would highly recommend that you use street tires for a while before you upgrade to R-comps. Also, investing in a set of track only rims and tires will save you a fair bit of grief.

Arguably the best performing street tire out there is the RE01R, but it's expensive. For less cost and almost all of the performance the Falken RT-615 is a great choice. What tires do you have on the car now?
 
EvilSTi7 said:
I would say your fine suspension and engine wise. Have you gotten the car aligned since you installed the new parts?

As far as brakes i'm not sure what the WP-PRO are, but upgraded fluid, pads, and lines will give you solid braking on the track (assuming you pick a pad that is suited for the track).

As for tires it depends on what you want to spend. I would highly recommend that you use street tires for a while before you upgrade to R-comps. Also, investing in a set of track only rims and tires will save you a fair bit of grief.

Arguably the best performing street tire out there is the RE01R, but it's expensive. For less cost and almost all of the performance the Falken RT-615 is a great choice. What tires do you have on the car now?
Click to expand...


The car has been aligned. The brakes are 6 pot fronts and 4 pot rears with 336mm x 32mm cross drilled vented rotors. All SS lines the manufacture said change out the pads and all should be fine. http://www.winnerpower.com.tw Is the website.

Why use street tires? If I had to buy a set I would want to keep them as race tires. I have a spare set of factory rims that I’m not using. See the attached link for the brake and wheel setup. They are the Potenza SO1 and are like new. So I would not want to trash them on the track if they would even hold up. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44805
 
If you are just starting to do hpde then Myself and every other instructer here will tell you to learn on street tires.Save the R compounds after you have progressed to at least the advanced student level.Think of them as a present to yourself when your instructers tell you your tires are your limiting factor in going faster.
 
My suggestion is that you do your first 6-10 events without making any changes to your current setup. Just use your street tires, even budget street tires like the Expedia S-01. As a newbie to track events, you won't be using anywhere near their full capabilities. And the tires won't get "trashed". If and when you feel that the tires are holding you back from going faster, that's the time to upgrade, not when you have never been on a track before. In which case, the Falken Azenis RT-615 is a good choice for a dual-purpose tire, or you can consider R compound track tires once you have enough experience to take advantage of their greater capabilities (not recommended for novice drivers).

EDIT: I see docjohn posted similar advice while I was composing this post.

Also, make sure your brake fluid has been flushed (replaced, not just bled) within the six months prior to taking your car out on the track, preferably with high-temperature brake fluid (e.g. Motul RBF 600, with its 594 degree boiling point).
 
Stock nsx brake calipers and brake rotors are fine for non-competitive track use. I would recommend that you upgrade your pads and your fluid.

You will learn more on an aggressive street tire like the azenis than on r comps. R comps will make a novice driver look better than he is by providing traction even when the driver makes mistakes. However, if driven too hard, r comps can break traction without giving as much warning as a street tire will give, and possibly get a novice into trouble. Street tires give more feedback and help the driver learn how to drive properly, and they are more forgiving.
 
I see the need for street tires now. Since I'M running a targa do you think a roll bar should be installed? If so do you know of anyone building them for the NSX? Thanks for all your help.
 
Keep the roof on and have fun.If you get the track bug do some research on the 5 and 6 point restraint systems.
 
ken sampson said:
I want to start tracking my NSX a few times a year and have some questions.
I'm not worried about my motor it seems very solid. My gears have been changed out for the 4:23 1:5 way LSD and shocks are Bilstein 1" drop. I also have heavier sway bars and the Comptech non-compliance rear beam. So without experience I guess brakes and tires are my biggest concern. I have no idea what type of tires to look for and I have WP-PRO brakes so I will talk to them about the brakes first. Can anyone recommend tires and anything else I have overlooked? I am going to install a roll bar if I can find someone who makes them for the NSX.
Click to expand...

First things first, make sure that your car handles properly, with the OEM suspension the NSX tends to understeer and that is in general safer for beginners, once you start changing components it's all up in the air.

Depending on how you have your sway bars set the NSX will exhibit different characteristics when driven to the limit. If your rear sway bar is set to the stiffest position your car will be more prone to snap oversteer when driven to the limit, that is not something that you want to experience at the track at high speeds. At a minimum make sure that your rear sway bar is set to softest or second from softest for starters and go from there as needed.
 
I agree with all of the above. Instead of modifying what is already a very high performance car, Id spend the time making sure that your car is aligned and that the suspension is tight, the battery is well held down, etc...

Then Id go out and rip it up!
 
Agree with most posts.

The stock NSX is perfect for a beginning student. Yours is even upgraded from there.

My advice, is to stop upgrading and start driving. I'd go with stock pads and everything as it is now... until you have got your feet wet and some experience. If you were going to a difficult track for braking (ask around) then maybe upgrade the pads.

And +1 on the street tires. It is much easier to learn on street tires and, having a slower car makes it easier to learn the correct line.

If there was one thing I'd suggest to all students who want to go faster, drive on worse tires and in lower HP cars. This will MAKE you learn the fast line and how to brake as little as possible. And, that is what track driving is all about.

Oh yeah, have fun. Track days are fun in any car.
$0.02
 
everyone else basically covered the street tire question. I would just make sure the pads you have in there now are made for track duty, and if they are have a decent amount of material left on them.
 
Batoutahell said:
Stock nsx brake calipers and brake rotors are fine for non-competitive track use.
Click to expand...
l8apex32 said:
I'd go with stock pads
Click to expand...
I agree that the stock NSX brake setup is fine for a novice track person (and, with the possible exception of upgraded pads, is more than adequate even for an experienced track driver). However, since the OP has already installed an aftermarket brake kit on his car, the stock setup is not an option for him. (I assume no one is advising him to go put his stock equipment back on.)
 
Sounds like you have invested alot of time and money on your NSX. Now it is time to invest some money in you as a driver. Enroll in a driving school so an instructor can show you the line and work on your driving technique.

Whenever possible, you should practice heel/toe braking, even while driving in the street.
 
A lot of great advise here Ken...
Start with street tires, running slicks this early in the learning process could make you over confident above your abilities and put you in a no return situation before you realize it's happening.
Most important thing, be safe and have fun !
Go at your own speed.
You're going to love it Ken....
 
You still have that monster 2.3L whipple SC setup?

If so, I would make VERY sure your brakes are up to the task. While saying "stock brakes are fine for a first time track experience" is all well and good, I can say that I lightly toasted mine with upgraded fluid and pads with a stock 3.0L. NO WAY would I run your car on a track with stock brakes, street pads, etc. At least upgrade the fluid and the pads.

As for your BBK that is on there now, I never heard of winnerpower brakes. Are they any good? I sure would not want to be the first guy to track a BBK that did not have A LOT of testing behind it. Maybe I am being too critical, but I view http://www.winnerpower.com.tw/ as a taiwanese knockoff bbk. Fine for bling, but I am not betting my life or my car on it on the track. Maybe I am wrong on that and I certainly am not trying to offend you with that statement.

So, I guess my $.02 would be:

1. flush with good fluid
2. get aggressive pads
3. be diligent with your tech inspection and safety equipment
4. start slow & smooth
5. good, matched street tires
6. research those brakes
7. If in doubt, better to play it safe (parts, driving, prep, safety, etc)
 
MJK said:
You still have that monster 2.3L whipple SC setup?

If so, I would make VERY sure your brakes are up to the task. While saying "stock brakes are fine for a first time track experience" is all well and good, I can say that I lightly toasted mine with upgraded fluid and pads with a stock 3.0L. NO WAY would I run your car on a track with stock brakes, street pads, etc. At least upgrade the fluid and the pads.

As for your BBK that is on there now, I never heard of winnerpower brakes. Are they any good? I sure would not want to be the first guy to track a BBK that did not have A LOT of testing behind it. Maybe I am being too critical, but I view http://www.winnerpower.com.tw/ as a taiwanese knockoff bbk. Fine for bling, but I am not betting my life or my car on it on the track. Maybe I am wrong on that and I certainly am not trying to offend you with that statement.

So, I guess my $.02 would be:

1. flush with good fluid
2. get aggressive pads
3. be diligent with your tech inspection and safety equipment
4. start slow & smooth
5. good, matched street tires
6. research those brakes
7. If in doubt, better to play it safe (parts, driving, prep, safety, etc)
Click to expand...

No offence taken I appreciate all your opinions. What part of the brake system do you think is a concern Rotors, pads, lines, or calibers? Believe me I don’t want my brakes to fail. Yes I have a newer version of the 2.3 Whipple it's running better than it ever has. I go back to the dyno next Tuesday for a final tuning and the installation of my wide band.
Thanks again.
 
ken sampson said:
I want to start tracking my NSX a few times a year and have some questions.
I'm not worried about my motor it seems very solid. My gears have been changed out for the 4:23 1:5 way LSD and shocks are Bilstein 1" drop. I also have heavier sway bars and the Comptech non-compliance rear beam. So without experience I guess brakes and tires are my biggest concern. I have no idea what type of tires to look for and I have WP-PRO brakes so I will talk to them about the brakes first. Can anyone recommend tires and anything else I have overlooked? I am going to install a roll bar if I can find someone who makes them for the NSX.
Click to expand...

Ken,
Like everyone says:
Change the brake fluid
Check your tire pressure
Listen to your instructor and drive the car!

Your brakes will be fine, inspect them for defects. With the size of rotors you are running, even 'knock off' ones will work fine as long as you have air ducted to the fronts! The down side on a potential problem with your brakes is how will they feel when they heat soak? My guess is when they get really hot, the pedal feel will change, but they will still stop fine. I think it will be fine with your brake set up and never notice a limitation until you are running R compound tires. The braking limit in your car is the friction of the tire on the track surface, not the size/type of brake.

Front compliance clamps will hep with those big brakes, and make learning to threshold brake easier.

Don't sweat the roll bar, the NSX is fine as far as body strength. All of the roll bars that increase the strength need to come into the passenger compartment and really interfere with entry, plus they add a potential impact point for your head when you don't wear a helmet. Not very street friendly.

Harnesses are nice for increased car control, make sure to go with a 5 or 6 point system. PM if you are interested in some options for stock seats or aftermarket seats. I think a driver's seat is a nice upgrade too, really helps with car control again!

Dave
 
www.skipbarber.com

-best investment --- YOURSELF.



I'm not familiar with the brakes you put on your car. Just make sure you have good fluid (ATE superblue/Motul) and head out there. After your first weekend feel out if your pads were starting to fade or if they were holding up well.

Also what tires do you currently have -model, size (215/40-17), and wheel size (17x8)
 
stuntman said:
www.skipbarber.com

-best investment --- YOURSELF.



I'm not familiar with the brakes you put on your car. Just make sure you have good fluid (ATE superblue/Motul) and head out there. After your first weekend feel out if your pads were starting to fade or if they were holding up well.

Also what tires do you currently have -model, size (215/40-17), and wheel size (17x8)
Click to expand...


17"- 18" Potenza SO3 with 300 miles on them. I think the rears are
285 0r 265-30-18 and the fronts are 235-35-17 I'm really not sure but I know when I did this I was able to maintain my ratio. I did ask people on prime.
 
ken sampson said:
No offence taken I appreciate all your opinions. What part of the brake system do you think is a concern Rotors, pads, lines, or calibers? Believe me I don’t want my brakes to fail. Yes I have a newer version of the 2.3 Whipple it's running better than it ever has. I go back to the dyno next Tuesday for a final tuning and the installation of my wide band.
Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I guess my main message is to go out and have fun, but keep an eye on those brakes closely. If there is one thing I want to depend on, it is the brakes. I am not saying yours are bad, I am just saying I don't know anything about them. Untested (by you, anyone else and likely the manufacturer) on the track brakes make me nervous.

Lines are probably fine.
Pads - what is available for that caliper? What do you have? Street pads don't do heat soak very well so they may fade. That is OK, not catastrophic but if you plan on turning this car in to a track rat and no track pads are offered then maybe you will want to swap BBKs eventually.
Fluid - make sure you flush the system with something good. ATE Motul, etc.
Rotors - Keep an eye on these closely throughout the day IMO. Look for radial cracks on the rotors, and any sign of problems at the area where the floating hat mates to the rotor itself. Unlikely, but potentially a really bad day if something fails.
Calipers might not be ideal (flex, seals, etc) but very likely are not going to fail.
Ducting - I have not seen anything on this mentioned, and it is probably not needed for the first time out, but it is something to keep in mind if you are turning it into a track rat.

Cliff notes: Good fluid, good pads, watch the rotors.

Have fun. I am not trying to scare you, just give you some items to watch for. It really is a blast and you'll love it.
 
stuntman said:
S03s are really good tires, you'll have a lot of fun on them...
Click to expand...

I was wrong on the tire size. I do have the SO3's here are the sizes front 215-40-17 and rear 285-30-18. After changing my rims I have never really felt comfortable with the wheel stud length. It would appear I have about 1/2" bite for the lug nuts. Should I change out the studs? Or is this correct?
 
If you can get at least 6 turns on the lugs you should be ok.
 

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