To spring or not to spring

[Pierce]

I have a problem with a purchase I made through Prime, obviously! The member who sold it doesn't see my side and feels that it is unfair of me to use this forum to express my grievance so I would like to present the problem without revealing his identity. Not as a way to intimidate as I hope you will realize but to establish who is right. Read on and all will be revealed. I trust I am not breaching any rule, I have read them.

I bought a set of four low use 2000 suspension springs a few months ago. I know if someone wants to burrow down through archives they may uncover who I bought them from but I have to reveal that piece of info. I delayed until I had received the second purchase, a set of shocks from another Prime member, 2005 vintage. During the Christmas break - two weeks for me - I had my first chance to install them. As soon as I removed the first complete strut I realized that I was not going to be able to fit the 'new' springs for obvious reasons as you shall see.
Pasted below is an edited version of relevant bits of the communication.
Simple question is: Did I get what I paid for?

My argument.
The springs I have just removed from my car and the ones you sent are as I explained significantly different.
> Uncompressed mine are 10" with the top end closed and square at 4 7/8" across and the bottom open at 4.5"
> An installed spring is approx. 8.5" a compressed ratio of 15%.
> The 'front' spring you sent me is 13.5" uncompressed, it is symmetrical, both with tapered open ends of equal dimensions 3.5" across.
> I would need to compress your spring by over 40% just to install it even if I could fit it over the plastic gaiter of the shock unit, which it doesn't and it would still not seat properly on either upper or lower perch.
> We all make mistakes and assuming you want them back, I will happily split the return shipping cost if you refund me the balance but as you will see from the attached photo's there is no way that the smaller springs of the set of four I received from you will fit any NSX. I don't know what you have sent me but I know what they are not.
> Rather than re-installing new shocks which I have, with the old springs and having to set up the front end for only a couple of weeks can you let me know where we stand so that I can order new front springs as soon as possible.

His response.
I am sorry for the late reply but I have to inform you that there isn't much I can do for you at this point. It is very late for your response to a purchase made quite some time ago, actually way over 30 days. In our store we don't take refunds or exchanges after 7 days even...perhaps the shocks or suspension is different from 2000 to NA1 like you are trying to fit, but I can tell you those springs were taken off my NSX. I don't keep other stock springs so there isn't any possibility that those were mixed up. We only had those because we kept most of our NSX factory parts. When you purchased them, I'm assuming you knew what you were purchasing and using them for.

My next move.
Are you happy to risk your vendor reputation by insisting that these 13.5" springs can fit the front of an NSX? Because of your insistence so far, I will tomorrow order a pair of brand new front springs from the lads in Peoria(?) and am prepared to bet that they will be very close dimensionally to my old ones. Would that be enough evidence for you to admit that what I am saying is correct?

His last reply.
Look, I sold you exactly what came with my NSX no harm no foul. Regardless of anything on prime I do not feel like you are putting me in a good situation and the shipping and hassle is just not worth it for either of us.

My comment. '..for either of us.' ????
This is not solely about the money, it's also about trust. Price was $214 in total. As we were not sure of shipping I paid $200 up front and after he had shipped he advised that I was $14 short. I paid this.
I have photos, which I sent him of both ssprings together but I can't figure out how I could to add them directly to this page. Is it possible? I will happily mail them to any or all who wish to see them but the mechanical descriptions are, I assure you, accurate.

Pierce.
I hope that isn't too long winded.

 

[Pierce]

A link to the photos mentioned now hat I've figured that one out.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92036628@N02/

 

[JD Cross]

Did you get this resolved?

Jim

 

[Pierce]

Not yet. The registered vendor has so far called me a cheat and a blackmailer. I will update as soon as I have his answer to a mail I sent him today 01-23-13. Hopefully with good news!

 

[Zishan]

If your evidence proves there are not NSX springs, then he should offer you a refund.

I had a sale with a NSX Prime member years ago. Sold him some NSX body parts that I didn't need. They got damaged in shipping and we filed a claim. Months and months later, he contacted me asking if it was ever resolved. I assumed they paid him. So I contacted the shipping company and they did not pay the claim. I refunded the money because it was the right thing to do. It was more than $200.

 

[Pierce]

OF a total of 13 email I have already listed the first four. Below are parts of the remainder as there is some repetition. No editing has been done and I have done my best to avoid the possibility of being accused of misquoting by omission. The registered Vendor I bought a set of springs described as 'stock' was NSX1145.

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[TD]Jeremy Hancock
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[TD="class: gH"]Jan 9

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[TD="class: ady"]to me

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I am not understanding what you are implying in that sentence, but here is the facts regardless.

You paid for a set of stock springs that came off my 2000 NSX. I sent you exactly that. Those springs were off my 2000 NSX. I never guaranteed that those springs would fit anyone elses NSX, different or indifferent. Those are used parts plain and simple. I feel like I delivered exactly what was paid for 100% on my end. Whether those springs fit your NSX is not really my problem, but you are making it my problem which is not exactly fair. No where in my listing did it say "if they don't fit your nsx, send them back for a refund", typically on used parts they are sold as-is. I hope you understand this in all fairness.
I am not an unreasonable person, but you are asking a lot by assuming I'm just going to take them back for a full refund as if it was a brand new item and that is not the case at all.
Do salvage yards take used parts back? Do craigslist sellers take used parts back?
Bottom line is I feel like I delivered exactly what was paid for by you. You can freely post whatever you want online, make me look like a bad person or whatever you want and I will stand by my decision in full faith. I have 100% positive feedback on both Ebay, as well as NSXPrime.
I don't feel as though I owe you, but I will try to help you this time. You can keep the springs, and I will send you a gift payment of $50, or a store credit of $65. That is the absolute best in all fairness that I will do for you. Take it or leave it, its your choice. These stock springs are not worth the shipping to send back and forth for either of us since you are so far away in Ireland. I will be sure to post this on NSXPrime should you choose to make your own thread. The decision is yours.

I replied.
think we can resolve this problem very simply. I want you to re-imburse me for the full price of the springs and also for half of the shipping cost. If you pay $169.50 into my paypal account which is [email protected] we can go our seperate ways and let bygones be bygones and no hard feelings and no repercussions. I have no particular interest in playing cop for NSX Prime but unless you accept that I am not going to go away. I think it is in your best interest to repay me having supplied four items which do not in any way match the description you offered them as.
I am going to reveal one good reason why you should. Here goes!!! You described exactly what springs you had when you bought the car, in a post on the eleventh of May 5-11-12, TANABE. You describe them as extra 'goodies'. It's still there in case you had forgotten.
I have also contacted one of the most respected mechanics who frequents Prime ( I will not drag him in by identifying him) and his response is simple. He says that it is blatantly obvious that they are very different.
I have ordered a pair of new 95 front springs from OEMACURA ($80x2 +$70 shipping), ask Tim if you are unsure.
So take your time making up your mind but as soon as I get the new ones I will post a picture of them beside my old ones and the 'Stock' ones that you claim you took off the car you bought and seemed to be enjoying so much in a later post, 'Is it just me..'.
Tanabe's website makes no bones about the fact that their springs lower the car by 1.5". The springs you gave me could never fit any NSX and for me to have to say that to you as a registered vendor suggests there is something very wrong. If you cannot see that then I feel Prime members should be warned that they are dealing with someone who appears to have a very limited mechanical knowledge indeed.
I repeat, you refund me the $125 and we split the $89 shipping cost equally and you will not hear from me again, and no mention of this to anyone. I am being very patient but there is a limit. Telling me that I am just wrong is no longer an option. My (Sebring Silver) NSX has been on axle stands for nearly a month now and as I won't receive the new spring for at least two weeks it will be slightly longer than the three days I anticipated, thanks to your advert offering STOCK springs.
Regards,
Pierce.

This is where Jeremy showed his true colours. His idea of trust is very different from mine.
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[TD="class: gH"]Jan 18 (9 days ago)

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My NSX did not come with Tanabe, it came with Tein stech, the seller was mistaken when he advertised the car to me he did not know. Anyways that doesn't matter what springs my car currently has, only what I sold you was the springs that came with my NSX.


I will not be black mailed by you and your attitude towards the situation is upsetting to say the least.
How do I know you didn't switch the springs that I sold you and you are trying to get free parts from me? I sold you exactly what came from my NSX.


I don't care how many people you talk to, or what you write, or post. Fact is I'm quite tired of dealing with you in the matter. My offer stands.

My answer.
eremy,
I have just forwarded the ordering information I received yesterday. Does that go any way toward convincing you that there is no con, no scam and no cheating or blackmail on my part. Why would I have placed this order if what you supplied was in fact 'stock' as you described.As it stands I have spent $444.00 and will soon have two useable and four useless springs to show for it. Is that fair?
So the person you bought the car from made a mistake and told you that they were Tanabe instead of Tein. The point I was trying to make was that the springs you sent me were not actually on the car when you got it. Presumably they were thrown in by the vendor, the same person who made a mistake when describing what the stock springs had been replaced with.
Unless you personally took those springs off yourself or watched someone else remove those very springs, you cannot be 100% sure that they were in fact 'stock'.
And yet when I present reasonable proof in pictures and details of dimensions showing clearly that the spring you sent me could not fit an NSX, you call me all sort of names.
The rules of Prime regarding buyers/sellers makes it clear that all avenues should be exhausted before presenting facts to the moderator. Your advertisement was not correct was it? You misrepresented what you were selling because you trusted the word of someone else. Instead of accepting that a mistake had been made you call me a cheat and a blackmailer.

His response.
The absolute most I am willing to refund back to you regardless of what is said here or there is $100. Take it or leave it. I'm done with this and will no longer be responding to your emails. Next time, gather your info before making a purchase and wasting people's time.
I took the $100.
Maybe my loss of $114 will save someone else as much or more.
I have tried several times to establish the uncompressed length of a front spring for an NSX and if anyone is interested I will add it here when I get my '95 vintage springs next week from the very helpful team at Peoria, Eric and Tim.