Tire wear, car lifespan questions

[MikeK]

Okay, i have tried a search for these couple of questions, but the questions and answers are not exactly what I'm looking for.

What I would like to know, from people that have a knowledgable opinion, is this:

1. Is it possible, I believe that it is, to adjust the camber of the tires to allow for a somewhat normal tire lifespan? I know that the high performance tires in general are short-lived, but I need to know that I can make the tires last 15,000-20,000 miles under normal driving conditions.

2. I am considering an NSX purchase in about a year. When I buy this NSX, it will likely be a '91-'94 due to money, and I'd like to know if the people that drive these daily think that an 11-13 year old car, even an NSX, can be reliably maintained for five to seven years without costing a mint?

3. Lastly, is there anyone in the Cleveland, OH or Columbus, OH area that would offer to give me a ride in their NSX? There aren't that many that come up for sale in this area, and I don't want to even consider a car that I haven't even taken a ride in. I'm not asking for a test drive, but a test ride.

Thanks for any and all answers to my questions. This is a great site.

Mike

 

[hlweyl]

Hi Mike,

For your first question, yes you can adjust the camber front and rear on the NSX. But adjusting the toe-out on the front is what is going to improve lifespan on the front tires. The rear tires typically wear normally so adjusting camber will not really help there. Also, the NSX will go through two sets of rear tires for every 1 set of fronts. Couple of options for the front if you don't have the front toe-out removed, you can have the front tires switched left to right once you see them wear on the inside edge. Another thing you can do is go to a longer lasting non-OEM tire.

Remember, you will sacrifice handling when you do any of these. BTW, I asked a similiar question here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24927

For your second question, yes of course, it's a Honda Make sure to follow all the recommendations on this site regarding the purchase of your car(PPI, having someone from here look at the car). Make sure the major services have been done like the timing belt/water pump. Look out for the snap ring issue in the 91-92's.

Third question: sorry i'm in Maryland

Good Luck

 

[chumch]

Hey Mike,

I'm in the cleveland area. Right now due the weather I am not driving my car but when spring arrives, perhaps we can get together. I recently saw a 91 low mileage nsx for sale on ebay from a dealer i think in North Ridgville. You might take a look on autotrader for an nsx and search with in 50 to 100 miles...maybe this one is still available. It could be a start.

Good luck,
Matt

 

[nsxtasy]

For your first question, yes you can adjust the camber front and rear on the NSX. But adjusting the toe-out on the front is what is going to improve lifespan on the front tires. The rear tires typically wear normally so adjusting camber will not really help there. Also, the NSX will go through two sets of rear tires for every 1 set of fronts. Couple of options for the front if you don't have the front toe-out removed, you can have the front tires switched left to right once you see them wear on the inside edge.

A few comments on this...

First, the front tires last a long time. I go through three sets of rear tires for every set of front tires, with the stock alignment settings. So I don't recommend changing the alignment to preserve your front tires; the front tires are fine.

The bigger concern is (obviously) the rear tires, because they're the ones that wear quickly. If you don't mind some slight degradation in handling (as hlweyl points out), you can remove some of the toe in the rear to extend treadlife on those tires.

 

[vegasnsx]

Ive got you all beat in that i go thru 4 sets of rears before i replaced the fronts, and to my suprise they look hardly worn at all. One thing about the NSX as a daily driver is that in 5k miles your rears will be gone, i drive mine 3000+ miles a month so i get rear tires every month in a half or so, the guys at the Firestone place just love me

 

[MikeK]

Thanks for all of your comments.

I remember reading, from various sources, about tire wear on the NSX. I remember the issue being the rear tires in what I'd read, but it seems extreme that the tires would only last 5,000 miles. I realize that the NSX is an "exotic" car, but that's a bit extreme. I would gladly sacrifice a bit in the handling department to extend that to a more normal figure like 20-30,000 miles.

chumch , I check Traderonline about one a week, and there are only two listed there right now, and neither is in the immediate area. I might revisit your offer in the spring if I can't find anything before then. Thanks for offering.

Anyone else have any opinions on my questions?

Mike

 

[nsxtasy]

I would gladly sacrifice a bit in the handling department to extend that to a more normal figure like 20-30,000 miles.

That's not normal for a high-performance sports car. That's not even normal on the NSX with reduced toe and only semi-decent tires.

If you care more about getting 30K miles from a set of tires than about handling, the NSX is probably not the best car for your preferences; there are lots of other cars that should fit your needs better.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to spend a lot of money for the high performance of a high-end sports car, and then degrade that performance substantially by changing the alignment and putting truly crappy tires on it, just so that you can save a few hundred bucks on tires. Just my O...

 

[wctsao]

I think it also depends on your driving style. I put about 8k miles on my rear Yokohamas. If your going with a 91-94, then you may have Bridgestones.

You could always swap out the OEM wheels for a more common size. (I'm not sure what size the 91-94 model uses though, but I know the 97+ models use a non-standard size up front.) Then you'll have more options with the kind of tire you wish to use. Maybe even get harder tire for longer wear.

 

[RichH]

I get much better wear out of my rears (5k seems low). I have OEM 16/17 with OEM Yokohama's.

I also check my inflation before heading out almost everytime I drive my car. And mostly do back road or highway driving.

 

[RSO 34]

One thing about the NSX as a daily driver is that in 5k miles your rears will be gone,

What tires are you using? I use mine as a daily driver and track car and get 5000 miles on rear Bridgestone RE010's combining daily driving with 5 or 6 track days. When it was just a daily driver I would get about 10,000 on a set of rears.

 

[nsxtasy]

One thing I forgot to mention about an earlier post above:

you can have the front tires switched left to right once you see them wear on the inside edge.

You can't do this for the OEM tires, unless you are willing to drive them with the wrong configuration. The OEM tires are side-specific so you have a left tire and a right tire; the bias in the belts is designed to work with the NSX alignment. They offer terrific handling, but I would not recommend switching them to the wrong sides of the car.

 

[vegasnsx]

I use Bridgestone Potenza s03, i cant get more that 5k miles out of the rears, and i dont drive hard at all, im sure the heat of the roads has alot to do with it out here in the desert. i have 275/30/19s on the rear, the guys is talked to before i got the 911 said the rears on the porsche go in about 5k miles also, maybe its the 100 degree weather most of the year?

 

[MikeK]

nsxtasy,

I appreciate your views on the subject, but I can't believe that an "everyday" exotic, like the NSX, is so finely tuned for normal street driving that a change in tires from ultra summer to ultra all season would make a huge difference. I have no plans of tracking any of my own cars since I don't have the disposable income in case anything happens. I want an NSX to experience the joys of an exotic car made by Honda that I can depend on as a daily driver, and enjoy in daily driving situations.

I feel that no one is ever going to legally get the full capabilities from this car in the US unless they track the car. As I said, I don't intend to do that so the sacrifice in handling from changing the camber of the wheels for longer lasting tires would be minimal.

That said, I understand that tire size is a limiting factor since the NSX appears to use a rather unusual size.

I'm just trying to help make a rational decision based upon all the factors. I know going all the way back to 1991 there have been complaints from people about the unusually high rate of wear of the tires on NSX's. I even seem to recall a long term test by Car and Driver, or Road and Track that commented on how unusually low the lifespan was for tires on the NSX, so I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting an alternative to changing tires twice a year.

Thanks again to all of you who have commented. All of the comments are greatly appreciated. Does anyone have any comments regarding the longevity of the NSX? Could I expect it to age as gracefully as my 1989 CRX Si? I sold that car just a couple years ago, and the biggest problem that I had with it was with rust - a problem I obviously don't have to worry about with the NSX.

Mike

 

[ncdogdoc]

First off, you do not have to worry about aging. Many are driving their cars into the upper 150k, and some over 200k. As the first respondant stated, it is a Honda. I track a '92 with 106,000 miles.

Regarding the tires. Most of the tire wear is from the rubber compound. Will the car handle differently with all season or some other hard rubber? Yes it will. Will it handle better than most cars even with crappy tires? Yes it will. Will you know the difference? That is a question only you can answer, but you better not ever put better tires on the car, because you will never be able to go back to hard tires.

As far as costs, you can buy Yokohama ES100 tires for around $500 a set, which is almost as much as some of the runflats cost per tire on other sports or exotic cars. Or Bridgestone RE750's, which are in the $150+ a tire range are another excellent choice. If $300 a year for rear tires is beyond your abilities, then yes, as Ken states, another car would be better. But just for comparison, when I had a Mustang 5.0l with Gatorbacks or Michelins, and only highway driving, I could only get 15,000 miles out of them. When I moved a mile and a half from work, my mileage dropped to 10,000 or less.

 

[hlweyl]

Or Bridgestone RE750's, which are in the $150+ a tire range are another excellent choice. If $300 a year for rear tires is beyond your abilities, then yes, as Ken states, another car would be better. But just for comparison, when I had a Mustang 5.0l with Gatorbacks or Michelins, and only highway driving, I could only get 15,000 miles out of them. When I moved a mile and a half from work, my mileage dropped to 10,000 or less.

I have the RE750's on the rear and currently I have over 9000 miles on them and they look like they are about 25% worn from visual inspection. I also have the OEM alignment specs also. I would be suprised if I don't get at least 20k out of the rears.

I'm sure I don't get the handling I would get from an OEM tire but from the seat of the pants, I cannot tell the difference. Someone who tracks their car would probably feel a difference though.

 

[MikeK]

hlweyl, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. There are tires out there that can last that long for this type of car. The key is how the car is driven. Since tracking is not an option for me, I most likely won't notice the difference.

On another note, one of the other cars that I'm contemplating is a Z06 (no flames please). The people on the Vette forums site normal wear of the even the stock tires to be between 20k and 30k miles. I know that the Vette is not necessarily considered an exotic in the same class as the NSX, but it has much more power, and has close to the same track performance, I think, so that would cause me to think that 5k on a set of tires is an exceptionally short lifespan.

That would be 2 more of my cents on the matter. Obviously I do not own either car at this point so I am basing my judgements on what others have experienced.

Mike

 

[jedi boy]

TIRES

HI MIKE,

welcome to prime it's a great source of info. i use mine as a daily and had dunlop 9000 on. had to change to 225/40/16 fronts and 255/40/17 rears. i don't track tread wear is 280 with AA traction and A temp. $106 fronts and $172 rears at tirerack. yoko es 100 also fairly priced. not as stickyas oem.

good luck

 

[ncdogdoc]

On another note, one of the other cars that I'm contemplating is a Z06 (no flames please). The people on the Vette forums site normal wear of the even the stock tires to be between 20k and 30k miles. I know that the Vette is not necessarily considered an exotic in the same class as the NSX, but it has much more power, and has close to the same track performance, I think, so that would cause me to think that 5k on a set of tires is an exceptionally short lifespan.
Mike

Mike,

Not to pick nits, but are those miles on a "normal" C5 or a Z06. Reason being that the Z06 probably has softer tires much like the NSX. Plus have you checked the price of the tires? TireRack lists the Goodyears at 247 and $281 EACH, and the Michelins at $285 and $346 EACH. Just remember to compare apples to apples. Plus, it is not an NSX

 

[wctsao]

If this is going to be your daily driver and your considering a Corvette, the Z06 may be too stiff of a ride. I read that the 50th anniv. Corvette has a pretty good ride. It uses a new suspension thats part of their F45 package.

Check out the August 2002 issue of Road and Track for the 50th anniv MR Corvette. The same issue also has a great owner survey article on the 1991-1999 NSX.

 

[wctsao]

Oh, the new C6 corvettes are probably coming out pretty soon. I've already seen commercials of the car. It was racing onto a car trailer in motion.

Autoweek mentions that its a 6.0L 400hp V8 with 400lb ft torque. Its estimated at 45k which is cheaper than the current Z06.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...verstory&loc_code=index&content_code=03176519

 

[ChopsJazz]

I think it's interestng that most people think they'll only notice a degradation in performance with a move to non-OEM tires if they track their car. It's true that you will notice a change in performance on the track, but when I changed to Dunlop 9000's I noticed the crappy handling immediately. On the street. In everyday driving. I have been to Don's to adjust the alignment (this time to the most aggressive setting) three times with still very little improvement. The one time I put my OEM tires back on for a track event I noticed how crisp the car handled as soon as I was on the road to the event!
The corner-specific design of the OEM tires is one cornerstones of the handling of the NSX IMO. And notice that each tire has a direction of rotation and "side facing out" that would preclude switching sides for the tires.

 

[Sketch]

As for comparisons to other cars, I believe that mid-engined cars are harder on rear tires than front-engined cars. If you look at any other mid-(or rear)-engined cars (Ferrari, Porsche, etc...even lower powered ones like the Toyota MR2 or Pontiac Fiero), you will probably find similar reports for rear tire wear. I drove a 140hp Fiero for years, and typically replaced the front tires every other time I replaced the rears.

Originally posted by MikeK
I appreciate your views on the subject, but I can't believe that an "everyday" exotic, like the NSX, is so finely tuned for normal street driving that a change in tires from ultra summer to ultra all season would make a huge difference.

As others have said, if you just want to cruise around town and don't push the car, you probably won't notice the difference. But if you drive your car hard on the track or even on the street, you will notice.

When I first got my NSX, it came with a set of nearly new RE730's (which was replaced by the similarly specced RE750, which someone else in this thread said they were happy with). I was used to sticky tires like Yokohama AVSi's and A520's that I had been running on my Fieros for a few years. After driving the car for about a month, I couldn't stand them anymore and replaced them with a set of OEM tires. Huge improvement, even on the street.

Consider this: the only thing holding your car to the road are 4 pieces of rubber. Everything your car does is limited by the tires. The better they are, the more capable the car will be. This is true of any car, not just the NSX. Tires are arguably the most important part of handling performance.

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy an NSX and run "lesser" tires on it, just to consider that you will be giving up performance, and decide how important that is to you.

BTW, I drive a '91 NSX daily, currently with 153,000 miles. I have had a few minor repairs in the 30K miles that I have owned it, but replacing rear tires twice a year, and fronts once a year, tires are by far my biggest NSX expenditure. And to me, they are well worth it.

 

[jond]

I'm bumping this to get some more input. People who daily drive their NSX, do you change rear tires everyother time you change your oil, or is there a better way to deal with the issue?

I'm about to buy a NSX for a year round daily driver. I plan to put 20,000 miles a year on it. Thats 3 sets of rear tires?

 

[Hugh]

I've been using Bridgstone S03 tires since I purchased my '93 two years ago. The car is lowered with Tein RA coilovers and my rear camber is pretty agressive at about -2 degrees.

I'm averaging about 12,000 miles out of the rear tires and 25,000 from the fronts. I drive about 40,000/yr.

 

[Edwardo]

As already mentioned, have your NSX aligned with the newer NSX specs.

I have Pirelli p7000 tires. The fronts are at around 25k miles (with a lot of tread left). I suspect the rears will last 20k miles or more. Of course, when you move away from stock NSX tires, you will lose a lot of the handling characteristics that make the NSX so great. I put a lot of miles on my NSX so I made the decision to go with the Pirellis to keep my tire costs down.