Time to fish or cut bait . . .

[Superfluous]

I have intended to purchase a NSX v2 for over a year. Until a few days ago, I did not give much consideration to the Audi R8 (Gen 2). Last week, I heard a (false) rumor that the NSX was further delayed. In response (and before discovering that the rumor is untrue), I took a long look at the R8. For better or worse, I was (and am) really impressed. In fact, I have secured an R8 (Plus) order that will be delivered at or about the same time as the NSX. I do not want to maintain both orders. Therefore, I need to promptly decide whether to proceed with the NSX or the R8.

The following is my general comparison of the factors that are relevant to me:

Performance (the car will not be tracked): Both cars are rip-roaring fast. The R8 Plus has already been clocked at 2.6-2.7 to 60. I am informed by a reliable source that the NSX is right there, although that has not yet been confirmed/validated in the public domain. Both cars handle far beyond my capabilities. From my perspective, the cars are close to even performance wise, with a possible slight edge to the R8 (if for no other reason than that its performance has been validated).

Looks: Both are beautiful, but I personally prefer the looks of the NSX. That said, the R8 is really growing on me and, what was previously a considerable gap is now only a slight edge.

Price: The MSRP of my ordered NSX is approximately $22,000 less than the MSRP of my R8. On the other hand, I have been offered a surprisingly steep discount for the R8 that narrows the gap to approximately $10,000. Thus, while the NSX gets the nod on price, the R8 discount is admittedly attractive.

Delivery: The best estimate is that my NSX will be delivered in August, although July and September are possible. The best estimate is that my R8 will be delivered in July, although June (unlikely) and August are possible. I would have to transport the NSX 3,000 miles (additional $1,000), while the R8 will be delivered nearby my home.

Color: Yes, this is an odd category, but relevant for the following reason: I prefer a charcoal car. The NSX is not available in charcoal. Therefore, I would have to go with black. On the other hand, the R8 is available in charcoal (Daytona Gray).

Wheels: I want OEM black wheels. The NSX is available with black wheels. I would have to powder coat the R8 wheels (add $600).

Interior: The R8 has a very cool virtual display. However, it does not have a traditional center counsel nav/audio display. Instead, the nav and audio are within the driver display. I am concerned about this approach. The NSX has a traditional center console nav/audio display. On the other hand, I have read comments that the NSX interior components are underwhelming, whereas most reviewers love the R8 interior components.

Reliability / Maintenance: I suspect the NSX will be very reliable. Not sure about the R8. I am told that an NSX oil change will cost over $500 (not sure if the initial oil changes are under warranty).

Tune-ability: In order to add meaningful horsepower to the R8, one must add forced induction at a considerable cost (over $30,000). Adding meaningful horsepower to a turbo car is usually much easier and less expensive (e.g., $3,000-10,000), but the electric motors on the NSX add an element of complexity that is novel to most tuners. Therefore, it is unclear what tuning options will be available for the NSX.

Exhaust: R8 by a country mile.

Summary: Nearly equal performance, NSX is slightly better looking, NSX is $10,000 less, R8 is delivered locally, R8 has desired color, NSX has better nav/audio display, R8 has better interior components, NSX is likely more reliable, NSX is probably more tunable (for less money), R8 sounds better.

I know this forum has an obvious bias. Nevertheless, I seek your advice, wisdom, input and comments.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

Why do you think the R8, a car with proven tech and 4 year warranty will be less reliable than an experimental and complicated hybrid turbo car with rushed development and a 3 year warranty? It's not exactly a simple Honda, and it's the first year of a completely new everything about the car. The R8 will have its bugs worked out being a second generation car plus the beta test Hurracan platform already on the market. Luckily, whatever you buy will have full warranty. You'll probably need it more with the NSX.

 

[JD Cross]

If a certain 2 seat sports car catches your fancy then buy it, enjoy it and don't look back.
On the other hand if you need a spreadsheet to decide on what is really a totally emotional discretionary purchase, don't buy anything.

 

[Jinks]

I require a 5,000 non-refundable payment for advice on a new Nsx 2.0:biggrin:

 

[Superfluous]

Why do you think the R8, a car with proven tech and 4 year warranty will be less reliable than an experimental and complicated hybrid turbo car with rushed development and a 3 year warranty? It's not exactly a simple Honda, and it's the first year of a completely new everything about the car. The R8 will have its bugs worked out being a second generation car plus the beta test Hurracan platform already on the market. Luckily, whatever you buy will have full warranty. You'll probably need it more with the NSX.

Thats true. I just assume that an "Acura" will be more reliable than an Audi, but that may well be a false assumption.

If a certain 2 seat sports car catches your fancy then buy it, enjoy it and don't look back.

Both catch my fancy. Thats the problem.

- - - Updated - - -

I require a 5,000 non-refundable payment for advice on a new Nsx 2.0:biggrin:

The check is in the mail.

 

[Jinks]

Thats true. I just assume that an "Acura" will be more reliable than an Audi, but that may well be a false assumption.



Both catch my fancy. Thats the problem.

- - - Updated - - -



The check is in the mail.

A check could bounce. Please send credit card info to my email. [email protected]

 

[JD Cross]

Both catch my fancy. Thats the problem.

Then it sounds like you're still shopping but not ready to buy.
So cancel your NSX and don't buy anything until your heart tells you the one to own.
Comparison shopping is great for SUV's, fridges, and so on but not for 2 seat sports cars.

 

[vf2ss]

Superfluous, I think deep down you still really want the NSX. To you it's better looking, however, you're bummed about the color but entirely aware of how exclusive of a ride it is going to be in more ways than one. Perhaps you're being cautious cause you don't want to some how get burned by Acura for the nth time. One thing I didn't see you directly compare was the risk factor and I think Nero laid it out quite well:

The R8 w/proven tech + 4 yr warranty

-or-

An experimental/complicated hybrid-turbo car w/rushed development + 3 yr warranty

I'm suggesting that it might be an awareness of risk that's keeping you from just choosing the NSX? If you cancel the R8 and proceed with the NSX and hear of just one more delay...that'll really bust your chops. If you eventually get it and experience any Gen 1 bugs, electrical gremlins, malfunctioning turbos, etc. or anything else that puts your car repeatedly in the shop, that'll break all the crayons in the box. Add to that watching a new tech trying to figure it all out and learn as they go...you'll probably be wishing you went with the tried-and-true Gen2 R8 at this point.

However, that is just one narrative and the exact opposite could happen. The NSX is delivered on time and the revolutionary design team at Acura/Honda really and truly pieced together something magical. You experience little to no issues whatsoever while enjoying the exclusivity and everyday supercar drive-ability. At this point you will probably be very happy that you stuck to your guns and cancelled the R8.

Since everything else is so close maybe think about what level of risk you are willing to take at this point. I think the reality of it is you can always get either car at any time at a later time in life. So perhaps it's not really a question of if you will, just when, and how much risk you are willing to take at the moment?

With all that said though, I think JD's advice to wait is the best. I understand the pressure window you're in so you can have one or the other by a certain date but we all know the saying...haste makes waste :smile:

 

[N Spec]

The R8 is plain jane - plain and simple. The V10 is attractive and fast, but even a Ford Mustang can be made to have 500+ hp from the factory. If all you care about is power and value, a Corvette or Mustang is right up your alley. I somehow doubt those type of cars excite you.

I wouldn't get cold feet over a car already declared as the first generation of modern exotic supercars because you had an interesting wait period. The GTR, McLaren and many others are suited to follow it's footsteps. Honda is going to have a better warranty than the R8 and most other competitors. The GTR is never going to look as good as the NSX by nature and McLaren will never match Honda's production value. This is their pride and they are going to stand behind it to get it right if there is going to be any hiccups. Unless Nissan or Mercedes were to offer their own take on a mid engine super car, I do not see many other attractive choices out there at all for this segment.

Ultimately, if you think V10 maintenance is going to be cheaper than a twin turbo V6 maintenance than that's ridiculous logic by math alone.

 

[chrisn]

NSX is the "new new thing" in terms of chassis and drivetrain technologies. Most people will not notice difference between a new R8 V10+ and a prior generation V8. The NSX will be a unique car for several years.

I think tie should go to the NSX.

 

[TomCat]

Did I miss this...how do YOU intend to use the car? What do you value?
You say "...not tracking" BUT are you commuting, weekends only, Cars Coffee, etc...?
Depending on your need for reliability, I'd say the "older" design will have more "design flaws" worked out but the newer car will have more "wow" factor due to rarity

 

[TURBO2GO]

Tough choice. I would need to drive both. Which is why I am staying put for now.

- - - Updated - - -

That's the most important step in a decision like this. How you feel after a nice LONG drive. And you probably haven't driven either.

 

[ozone]

Go with JD Cross -- whatever makes you feel better, go for it. There has to be a slight inkling for one and you have to feel that in your heart.

At $200k, you have to throw practicality out the window.

 

[Olyar15]

Another option is to lease the R8. If, after 2 or 3 years, you find that you really like the R8, you can buy it out. If not, by that time more examples of the NSX will be on the streets and it will give you the opportunity to have a closer look at it, especially in terms of colour. Then you can pick up an NSX, either new or used.

 

[fastaussie]

Delivery: The best estimate is that my NSX will be delivered in August, although July and September are possible. The best estimate is that my R8 will be delivered in July, although June (unlikely) and August are possible. I would have to transport the NSX 3,000 miles (additional $1,000), while the R8 will be delivered nearby my home.

Reliability / Maintenance: I suspect the NSX will be very reliable. Not sure about the R8. I am told that an NSX oil change will cost over $500 (not sure if the initial oil changes are under warranty).

Exhaust: R8 by a country mile.

Summary: Nearly equal performance, NSX is slightly better looking, NSX is $10,000 less, R8 is delivered locally, R8 has desired color, NSX has better nav/audio display, R8 has better interior components, NSX is likely more reliable, NSX is probably more tunable (for less money), R8 sounds better.

I know this forum has an obvious bias. Nevertheless, I seek your advice, wisdom, input and comments.

Thanks in advance.

R8's are super relaible, i can personally attest to this. and that V10 is absolutely bulletproof.

why won't your NSX be delivered locally?

 

[RYU]

Before you read my comments below... full disclosure, I would pick the new NSX by a country mile over the new R8. Inherently, my responses below will be bias but i'll try to be objective about it.

I have intended to purchase a NSX v2 for over a year. Until a few days ago, I did not give much consideration to the Audi R8 (Gen 2). Last week, I heard a (false) rumor that the NSX was further delayed. In response (and before discovering that the rumor is untrue), I took a long look at the R8. For better or worse, I was (and am) really impressed. In fact, I have secured an R8 (Plus) order that will be delivered at or about the same time as the NSX. I do not want to maintain both orders. Therefore, I need to promptly decide whether to proceed with the NSX or the R8.

*** Why don't you buy a used R8 V10? The old design looks better than the new one but this is subjective. You can still maintain a CPO warranty and save a bunch of money.

The following is my general comparison of the factors that are relevant to me:

Performance (the car will not be tracked): Both cars are rip-roaring fast. The R8 Plus has already been clocked at 2.6-2.7 to 60. I am informed by a reliable source that the NSX is right there, although that has not yet been confirmed/validated in the public domain. Both cars handle far beyond my capabilities. From my perspective, the cars are close to even performance wise, with a possible slight edge to the R8 (if for no other reason than that its performance has been validated).

*** They will likely perform similarly from a #'s standpoint. However, the NSX will certainly be more street daily friendly if even simply given it has a true proper "Quiet mode". On a side note, if you haven't spent a significant amount of time behind an EV, I highly recommend you do so before making this decision. EVs have a unique ability to be calming and peaceful. It is this quality that I believe will catch many future NSX owners by surprise.

Looks: Both are beautiful, but I personally prefer the looks of the NSX. That said, the R8 is really growing on me and, what was previously a considerable gap is now only a slight edge.

*** The NSX looks much better in person. I'm not sure if you've seen both cars in person (I have), while looks are subjective, I think it's common opinion that the NSX does look better in person than it does in pictures.

Price: The MSRP of my ordered NSX is approximately $22,000 less than the MSRP of my R8. On the other hand, I have been offered a surprisingly steep discount for the R8 that narrows the gap to approximately $10,000. Thus, while the NSX gets the nod on price, the R8 discount is admittedly attractive.

*** Compared to the R8, the NSX seems like a relative bargain. The tech alone is impressive - if you're into that kind of thing. If you're into a raw sportscar, then I don't think an NSX is for you.

Delivery: The best estimate is that my NSX will be delivered in August, although July and September are possible. The best estimate is that my R8 will be delivered in July, although June (unlikely) and August are possible. I would have to transport the NSX 3,000 miles (additional $1,000), while the R8 will be delivered nearby my home.

*** What's the reason for the shipping charges on the NSX?

Color: Yes, this is an odd category, but relevant for the following reason: I prefer a charcoal car. The NSX is not available in charcoal. Therefore, I would have to go with black. On the other hand, the R8 is available in charcoal (Daytona Gray).

*** The NSX has a dark grey color. Have you seen it? Is it the shade you like?

Wheels: I want OEM black wheels. The NSX is available with black wheels. I would have to powder coat the R8 wheels (add $600).

*** The OEM "stock" Y wheels on the NSX is actually the lightest too.

Interior: The R8 has a very cool virtual display. However, it does not have a traditional center counsel nav/audio display. Instead, the nav and audio are within the driver display. I am concerned about this approach. The NSX has a traditional center console nav/audio display. On the other hand, I have read comments that the NSX interior components are underwhelming, whereas most reviewers love the R8 interior components.

*** The NSX 7" display was lifted directly from the Fit. The NSX also prioritized performance and function as the priority. If anything had to give, it was the interior and other non-essential parts of the car. I haven't seen the R8's interior in person but the R8 probably wins here. However, outward visibility... NSX will win.

Reliability / Maintenance: I suspect the NSX will be very reliable. Not sure about the R8. I am told that an NSX oil change will cost over $500 (not sure if the initial oil changes are under warranty).

*** I'm of the opinion, that this NSX has been the most publicly socialized pre-production car of recent memory from any manufacturer. Because they are Honda and because the entire NSX design and engineering team truly believe in the "Everyday Supercar" ethos, i'm positive they have truly put this car thru it's paces. Of course, issues will come up. It is an extremely complicated car that's primarily driven by software but when do you recall a supercar having this many test miles?

Tune-ability: In order to add meaningful horsepower to the R8, one must add forced induction at a considerable cost (over $30,000). Adding meaningful horsepower to a turbo car is usually much easier and less expensive (e.g., $3,000-10,000), but the electric motors on the NSX add an element of complexity that is novel to most tuners. Therefore, it is unclear what tuning options will be available for the NSX.

*** You might want to pretend you're a teenager living today. What kind of software tweaks can you do to improve performance. That's really the new mindset.... I wouldn't be surprised if the next update for the NSX (NSX-R?) will be better or higher output electric motors or a lighter, higher capacity battery. From this aspect, this is a forward looking car. The R8, 911, 488 GTB, etc.. seem like old tech by comparison. Again, depends on your mindset.

Exhaust: R8 by a country mile.

*** In stock form.. I agree. Exhaust is easy to fix though. Akrapovic will remedy this situation in due time.

Summary: Nearly equal performance, NSX is slightly better looking, NSX is $10,000 less, R8 is delivered locally, R8 has desired color, NSX has better nav/audio display, R8 has better interior components, NSX is likely more reliable, NSX is probably more tunable (for less money), R8 sounds better.

I know this forum has an obvious bias. Nevertheless, I seek your advice, wisdom, input and comments.

Thanks in advance.

 

[N Spec]

One other thing I may add. The NSX achieves 0-60 in 3 seconds flat with no 1 foot roll-out at a very modest 2500 rpm launch unlike other cars with super aggressive launch control. I know people who rev up to almost 2k trying to get there car to move from the stoplight in regular traffic!

This is both very easy on the drivetrain and leaves room for much improvement. It doesn't have to hit 3-4K rpm to achieve a 3 second or less 0-60 like some other cars. Thus, possibility of software update for more aggressive launch mode in the future and of course the extended reliability of a softer launch at that low rpm so there are less reliability issues...

Just something to consider.

 

[chrisn]

The NSX achieves 0-60 in 3 seconds flat with no 1 foot roll-out

Not doubting you, but I'm curious as to the source of the 0-60 time and the "no roll out." I have read dozens of reviews that say "0-60 in 3 seconds," but I find no primary data (pubs who have personally tested and timed the car) and no official claims from Acura. I think one publication said "with roll out," so there must be some real data somewhere-- or perhaps everyone is taking "conventional wisdom" without fact checking.

To me the best evidence is that everyone is going with "approx. 3 seconds" and Acura doesn't appear to be whispering corrections in anyone's ear.

 

[Wolfman101]

As a first gen R8 owner...
I didn't even consider the new one. Horrible looking thing. My 2c: The NSX will be about the same performance-wise, look better, sound worse and have a lower quality interior.
The cars I'm cross-shopping are the V12 Vantage S, Jag XKRS-GT and Z06. All very different, but all, along with the NSX light my fire in SOME way. New R8? Not a bit.

 

[chrisn]

The cars I'm cross-shopping are the V12 Vantage S, Jag XKRS-GT and Z06. All very different, but all, along with the NSX light my fire in SOME way. New R8? Not a bit.

The C7 Z06 is, hands down, the best performance car value on the market. As you note, VERY different from others, but a joy to drive-- especially on track. I actually am attracted to the NSX in part because of how different it is (or appears to be) from the Z06. I think they would complement each other well.

 

[Wolfman101]

The Z06 is off the hook. It's not just "bang for buck" at this point - it's one of the very fastest cars in the world, at ANY price. It is (almost certainly) quicker than the NSX, looks better and is no worse on the inside. All it's lacking is the "interesting" factor and the cool tech. I don't think those things are going to be worth the extra 100k for most people!

 

[RYU]

I've followed a couple of Z06's at the track. While i'm not Ayrton Senna, it does take a capable driver to drive that car fast, even with the Stage 3 aero package (or whatever it's called). I could argue that in the hands of the enthusiasts, like many of us, we will be faster in the new NSX than in the Z06. It's too bad I don't have those sessions on video. I accidentally booked a track day with a bunch of Corvettes. The C7 Z06's in particular looked quite loose in the back end It was fun following them.

Search youtube for Randy Pobst video on the Z06 vs. the GTR. The GTR still edges out the win.

 

[Superfluous]

Thank you for all the sage comments and advice. I have elected to stay with the NSX.

Responding to a few of the above questions and observations:

Superfluous, I think deep down you still really want the NSX. To you it's better looking, however, you're bummed about the color but entirely aware of how exclusive of a ride it isgoing to be in more ways than one.

Interesting that you mention exclusivity. A good friend of mine focused on exclusivity when we chatted earlier today. The NSX is entirely unique and, for the first few years – if not longer – there will be very, very few on the road. The R8, although also a limited volume car, will be much more common for the duration of my ownership. Moreover, I suspect that less than 1% of the population can differentiate the Gen 2 R8 from the Gen 1 R8.

R8's are super relaible, i can personally attest to this. and that V10 is absolutely bulletproof.

My “reliability” comparison failed to account for the R8’s tried and tested platform. Nevertheless, I have enduring faith that the NSX’s new, untested platform will be remarkably reliable.

why won't your NSX be delivered locally?

After getting screwed by three in-state dealers, the only first allocation I could secure at MSRP was 3,000 miles away.

Why don't you buy a used R8V10? The old design looks better than the new one but this is subjective. You can still maintain a CPO warranty and save a bunch of money.

I much prefer the Gen 2 R8 – the split side-blade in particular.

The R8 is plain jane -plain and simple.

The NSX looks much better in person. I'm not sure if you've seen both cars in person (I have), while looks are subjective, I think it's common opinion that the NSX does look better in person than it does in pictures.

This is really the deciding factor for me. The R8 is undeniably good looking. It is sleek, but relatively simple. In contrast, the NSX design looks more (close your eyes FastAussie) “Italian” to me . . . sportier . . . more serious and hard core.

If I look at individual photos of the R8, I love the car. When I look at photos of the R8 next to photos of the NSX, the R8 fades away and the NSX distinguishes itself as the clearly better looking car. Moreover, I loved the NSX when I saw it in person.

*** The NSX has a dark grey color. Have you seen it? Is it the shade you like?

The Nord Gray is very green. I do not care for it.

I am now considering either: (1) Silver (still looking for a photo); (2) black; or (3) black, with a charcoal wrap (never wrapped a car before).

The OEM "stock" Ywheels on the NSX is actually the lightest too.

I love the NSX OEM y-spoke wheels.

The NSX 7" display was lifted directly from the Fit. The NSX also prioritized performance and function as the priority. If anything had to give, it was the interior and other non-essential parts of the car. I haven't seen the R8's interior in person but the R8 probably wins here. However, outward visibility... NSX will win.

The Gen 2 R8 does not have a center mounted nav/media screen. Instead, the driver display behind the steering wheel is fully digital and serves as an all purpose display of everything, including the standard driver info (rpms, speed), radio and nav. I am very skeptical about this approach. First, it requires the driver to regularly toggle between displays. This strikes me as a real hassle. Second, the passenger cannot see, or interact with, the radio or nav.

In stock form.. I agree.Exhaust is easy to fix though. Akrapovic will remedy this situation in due time.

If the NSX exhaust is really bad, I will explore after-market options.

One other thing I may add. The NSX achieves 0-60 in 3 seconds flat with no 1 foot roll-out at a very modest 2500 rpm launch unlike other cars with super aggressive launch control.

I probably should not be saying this, but I have it on good authority that the NSX reaches sixty in less than 3 seconds (and not merely a tenth faster).

Not doubting you, but I'm curious as to the source of the 0-60 time and the "no roll out." I have read dozens of reviews that say "0-60 in 3 seconds," but I find no primary data (pubs who have personally tested and timed the car) and noofficial claims from Acura. . . . To me the best evidence is that everyone is going with "approx. 3 seconds" and Acura doesn't appear to be whispering corrections in anyone's ear.

As you noted, none of the reviewers have measured an actual 0-60 time. Rather,all have provided vague, butt-o-meter estimates. Most reviewers have said “around” or “in the neighborhood of” 3 seconds. Others have estimated less than 3 seconds, and one guy forecast 3.8 seconds (are you f’ing kidding me). I suspect that the NSX's smooth launch is deceptive and leads many to under-estimate its 0-60 time.

Acura has not, and will not, release a 0-60 time. Acura does not release 0-60 times for any of its cars. That’s not the way Acura markets their cars. I personally believe that Acura is making a big mistake by not releasing performance stats for the NSX, or letting reviewers measure and publicize the performance stats. I think Acura should get the NSX performance numbers into the public domain as quickly as possible. Potential buyers are eagerly awaiting the numbers, and Acura’s silence creates unwarranted suspicion that the numbers are underwhelming.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, a little dying birdy whispered in my ear that the 0-60 time begins with a 2, and is very impressive (2.9 is impressive, but not very impressive). Hopefully, the widely distributed magazines will publish verified figures in the not-to-distant future.

The Z06 is off the hook. It's not just "bang for buck" at this point - it's one of the very fastest cars in the world, at ANY price. It is (almost certainly) quicker than the NSX, looks better and is no worse on the inside.

I agree that the ZO6 is off the hook. That said, it is not quicker to 60 (perhaps to the ¼ mile). Moreover, I think the NSX is much better looking.

 

[Wolfman101]

The one that was tested against the NISMO GTR (not the normal one...!) had the wrong aero setup. The Z06 is currently the 4th fastest car of any kind around Laguna Seca.
Literally Viper ACR, 918, P1, Z06. Incredible.

0-60 times are typically 2.8-3.0. About what we'd expect in the NSX.

 

[Jinks]

The new Nsx is a poor mans P1 or 918. That being said, I think all the tech overwhelms the previous Nsx owner. It's software floating in cyberspace. I do like the fact that you can upgrade software rather than mod it. Also, at 200,000 dollars I would not dare modify it. It would stay bone stock! Same with the Audi. That being said about technology, nobody does it better than Japan. Not the Germans, not the Americans, or Koreans. I expect the new Nsx to actually work and perform as it should. But the problem for me lies in the choice of a na 10 cylinder engine or a dainty little v6 with some hampsters running the front wheels. I'd prob go the V10 route.