TCS Problems

[Ned]

I have a 1991 NSX with 105,000 miles. During the past 15,000 miles the TCS comes on and off during acceleration in all 5 gears until I reach 55 MPH (this is in a straight line). Over 55 MPH it stops coming on.
I had the car checked by 3 different dealers using their computers to determine the problem code and an error code has yet to show up.
Any thoughts?

 

[DaveJP]

What size tires/rims are you running?

 

[Ned]

Originally posted by DaveJP:
What size tires/rims are you running?

Front - 225/45ZR16
Rear - 245/40ZR17

These tires and wheels have been on the car longer than the problem has.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Originally posted by Ned:

Originally posted by DaveJP:

Front - 225/45ZR16
Rear - 245/40ZR17

These tires and wheels have been on the car longer than the problem has.

The problem lies in the tires. With your current setup of the tires you are right at the limit of the TCS tolerance. I had TCS problem with this size of tires, as well as my friend (even with 255/40/17 rear).

You didn't have a problem before cause you maybe right at the limit. As the rear tire wears out, the limit is crossed.

 

[DaveJP]

Ditto...Rear tires have worn beyond TCS tolerance.

 

[POWERED by HONDA]

Damn it, those are the sizes currently on my car.

What is the recommended non-OEM tire sizes on OEM wheels? (16/17) Especially the front's...

 

[Hrant]

I know many are using these sizes, but if I recall correctly, staying on the same wheel but with wider tires meant going lower profile as well to keep the balance, that is: 225/40/16 and 255/35/17 no? Perhaps tire selection is limited the rear size?

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Hrant,

The ideal situation is to get the tire overall diameter as close as possible to stock ones. 255/40/17 is slightly bigger, but small enough that you will not notice the difference. In fact the newer NSX comes standard with this size tires.

As far the recommended size for non-oem tires on oem wheels, the rule is always maintain the ratio of Rear/Front tires as close as possible to stock ratio. The TCS has certain tolerance, but I'm not sure how much.

Stock rear/front ratio is approximately:
oem 16/17 = 1.05
oem 15/16 = 1.08

TCS only kicks in if it detects rear tires spinning faster (slip) than front tires. Keeping this in mind, you can increase the ratio without ill effect. In fact, I like the increase ratio myself, this way the TCS doesn't kick soon enough and work great for track use.

From my experience using the oem 16/17 tires, I like using wither 205/45/16 or 215/40/16 in the front. With 255/40/17 in the rear.

I am ordering new tires with size of 215/45/16 and 245/45/17 Falken Azenis. I tested the tire in another car before and I can say this is the closest street tire to R compound tires available. The price is unbelievable too. They use to bring in 255/40/17 as well, but due to lack of sale, they stop bringing them in. Maybe if we can email them and request for them they decide to bring it back.

On another note, I think tire technology has come a long way since 1991. Yokohama A022 which come stock in the NSX is not superior anymore.

[This message has been edited by Andrie Hartanto (edited 28 May 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Andrie Hartanto (edited 28 May 2002).]

 

[Hrant]

I agree with you Andrie re the ratio of the front with the rear ......... and I did see those Falken at a local store ....

But every tire store will tell you that if you go with wider tires (say by 10 increment - 215 to 225 or 245 to 255) on the same wheel size you need to also go with lower profile (usually by 10 as well) for the best fit on the rim.

The 02 did go with 255/40/17 but note that the wheel size is now 9.0 and not 8.5 ....

Since with 225 on 16 most tend to use 40 profile instead of 45, wouldn't it make sense if one is to use 255 on 17/8.5 wheels to go with 35 low profile tires as well or is that there are no tires that will match the ratio for the TCS .......?

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Originally posted by Hrant:
I agree with you Andrie re the ratio of the front with the rear ......... and I did see those Falken at a local store ....

But every tire store will tell you that if you go with wider tires (say by 10 increment - 215 to 225 or 245 to 255) on the same wheel size you need to also go with lower profile (usually by 10 as well) for the best fit on the rim.

This is not true. Talk to the tire store, some of them don't even know how to compute the overall diameter, and what the aspect ratio is.

Aspect ratio (the number in the middle) for let's say 255/40/17 is 40. Crude calculation for the overall diameter of the tire is:

[Track width (255 in this case) X aspect ratio (40 in this case) X 2 (there is 2 sidewall in effect for the overall diameter, the one on the bottom and the one on the top)]/25.4 (to make them in inches) + 17 (the wheel size).

This however varies a bit by tire manufacturer.

The 02 did go with 255/40/17 but note that the wheel size is now 9.0 and not 8.5 ....

Since with 225 on 16 most tend to use 40 profile instead of 45, wouldn't it make sense if one is to use 255 on 17/8.5 wheels to go with 35 low profile tires as well or is that there are no tires that will match the ratio for the TCS .......?

On wheel width, it is totally different issue. Without going into great length, the optimal width of the wheels given a particular tires for track use should be the track width divided by 25.4 to make them to inches, give or take .5"

This means, for 255 tires, the wheel width should be about 9.5" to 10.5". There is an argument worth of it's own thread as why this is the case.

For street use however, the 255 should be fine in 8.5" to 9.5" width. Also as rule of thumb, the lower the aspect ratio, the less tolerant it is to the rim width range.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Andrie Hartanto:
On another note, I think tire technology has come a long way since 1991. Yokohama A022 which come stock in the NSX is not superior anymore.

I disagree. While tire technology has improved, the A022H has unique advantages over other, non-OEM tires: the fact that it was designed for the NSX (with built-in bias to work with the NSX alignment) and that it therefore is designed differently for front tires than for rear tires. While non-OEM tires have certainly improved, I have yet to hear of any street tire which surpasses the handling crispness of the NSX OEM tires, the characteristic which was optimized during its design.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Hi Ken,

Do you ever test the NSX with other aftermarket tires? I could not tell the difference when I swap the stock tires inside out. In fact, I was turning identical lap times. So, I do think the built-in bias is overrated. I'm not saying the yokohama tires is not a good tires. But I think there are quite a few choices of tires that work well for the NSX now. For the price, the Yoko are not a good deal either. I think because it is only made for the NSX, so they got to make their money somehow.