Taking it to the track

nsx2tall

nsx2tall

Experienced Member
Joined
2 October 2005
Messages
826
Location
Carol Stream, IL
I'm interested in getting involved in road racing (time trials, #2 on the pyramid of speed), as my driving habits with the NSX are getting dangerous and I need a safe (or safer) outlet. I'd probably do 2-4 events per year. Can I safely run the NSX without trashing it or should I look for something less emotionally taxing (read expensive) to buy for track use? My '96 is in great shape with 33k miles and nice black paint so it seems to me to be a bit foolish to track the car at this point. I don't have any track time so I don't even know if I'll like it, but given my driving habits I'd find that hard to believe.

My first idea is to do a track day with cars provided-- something like Fox Valley's Lotus school though I'd worry about fitting in the car. If I like it (and you know I'll like it!), buy something like a WRX STI or an EVO VIII for $20k or an El Cheapo '85 vette or Celica something for around $4k-5k and do weight loss and suspension upgrade. The WRX and EVO would make acceptable daily drivers too.

Second choice is to track the NSX first and move on to something else from the prior list, hoping that no damage occurs to the NSX.

Any suggestions?

Randy
 
You should atleast get a taste of track events before buying a track car. Go do an autocross or a High Performance Driving Event(HPDE). You might or might not like it. I mention autocross because there is a minimal amout of stress placed on your car(brakes), it is slower/safer than a HPDE. A HPDE puts a lot more stress on the car(brake pads, tires, suspension).

I see plenty of people smack talk about how they can't wait to take their P car or whatever sportscar to the track. One wknd at a DE event will either get you hooked like no other drug or you will think that the track guys are absolutely nuts for waisting all there money:biggrin:

Then you can decide if you want to track the NSX or get a designated DE/track car.

I'm sure Ken can direct you to plenty of track events in your region.
 
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Well I HIGHLY suggest that since you are in IL, you join the BMWCCA ASAP!!!!!

http://www.bmwcca.org/

And then sign up for the HPDE that will be @ Road America on the weekend of April 29th

You will be put in a novice group, and chances are you will have Ken Sax as a ride-along instructor ALL WEEKEND. (every single session) You will also get some skid pad, wet, and braking exercises, as well as multiple classroom sessions.

Trust me this is the way to start out. I gaurantee that at the end of Sunday (besides being tired!:biggrin: ) You will "know" what your future will be as far as tracking your car. There is a 99.9% chance that you will be hooked!
 
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Yes with all of the above - I bet that once you get yourself on a track, that you dramatically revise your perception of how good a driver you are.

The street is fun for getting from A to B, but you cannot even begin to "drive" on it compared to a track.

Ive seen good drivers in stock Corollas take down guys in 911s/Vipers/put any car in the world here.

You can easily enjoy your steet NSX on the track. At that point you can decide what to do.

I recommend instructors as much as possible. A good instructor will teach you something everytime out.
 
RP-Motorsports said:
Well I HIGHLY suggest that since you are in IL, you join the BMWCCA ASAP!!!!!

http://www.bmwcca.org/

And then sign up for the HPDE that will be @ Road America on May 6, 7.

QUOTE]
I agree with the first statement but definitely not the second. Road America is not the place to start your first HPDS. You should be looking to run tracks like Autobahn, Putnam Park or GingerMan. These are the best tracks to learn on then progress to the more famous tracks like Road America, Mid Ohio etc. BMW is running a school at Gingerman (the safest track I know) and their cost is $295 for members ($345 non members). Or, and this is a shameless plug, check out www.cgimotorsports.com for the best value in drivers schools. If you are interested in the BMW drivers school, private me at [email protected] and I'll send you their application. If your interested in our drivers school, we're planning an NSX event for May. Ken will be providing more information on that in the near future.
Click to expand...
 
I say it's a good plan but once you drive the nsx on the track... however it's going to be hard to find something to replace it once you get used to it. That's my situation. Even though I want to use another car nothing else can compare.. (at least to me and what i can afford)

x
 
Its a tuff call what to track. After screwing up the engine in my Type-R in an Auto-X(it was under warantee luckly) I bought a dedicated auto-x car. $1900 for a 91 Sentra SE-R. Striped it, put suspension and R compounds on it, and its in the top 1/4 of the pack. One cool thing is I dont care if I break it which adds to the fun.

I did road race the Type-R though because the SE-R isnt fast enough. I worried about wrecking it, but its just a risk you have to decide if you're willing to take.

The last event at summit I went to, a TON of people wrecked. A vette flipped end over end right in front of me. I have part of it on tape. My instructor wrecked his Type-R on the first lap(almost rear ending a NSX!). And I spun my car up onto a curb(no damage).

I think HPDEs ARE safe if you dont take your car past 90%. But when you can almost pass a vette or mustang, you WANT to push it past 100% really bad..
 
Thanks for the great responses!

I didn't realize there was an event at Road America in May-- it's worth looking into. I know there is an upcoming event at Gingerman May 22 that also looks interesting (Is this the event you mentioned Chuck?). The Fox Valley HPDE is at Autobahn and I believe you can either b.y.o. or use a Lotus Elise, but I'm not sure of the exact date.

Short of flipping my car end over end or throwing a rod (thanks jond for worst case scenario), What sort of minor damage is typical at these events? Can I expect rock chips and a cracked windshield or just bald tires and brake pads?

Not to get ahead of myself, but if any of you were to buy a $5k track rat, what would be your preferences? Obviously a manual 5 speed, but what about FWD or RWD (FWD being more available), handling is probably more important than horsepower at this point too? In searching autotrader, the best I could come up with was a Celica GT and an '85 vette (could you ever really trust a $5k vette?).
 
The NSX is a great car on the track. If you take it out it will be a very rewarding experience.

I would suggest signing up with one of the reputable clubs and running HPDE1 with an instructor. If possible you should ask around and find an instructor with a good reputation. There are many excellent instructors that attend these events, however there are a few that will push you and the car beyond your limits; be careful (I had one do this with me in the rain at California Speedway last weekend).

For your first track event you may want to find a track with a lot of run off area, it will give you a little more confidence and in the event that you do go off course hopefully it will result in no or minimal damage.

You may pick up a few rock chips thrown up by other cars with sticky rubber in front of you on the track. It is more likely that you will end up with tire rubber and brake dust all over your car. This cleans off, although the rubber can be a pain to get off.

If you do take the car out, take your time and learn the line. Don't worry about going fast at first. Point other cars by. If you learn the proper line you can begin to add more speed and go faster. Listen to your instructor and have fun!
 
Most already cover, and you can do a search on first HPDE / track event here to see what most people write about their first experience.

Seems to me that you like to keep your pain shine and worry about rock chips. Rock chips are unavoidable as your skill improved and moving up run groups and your nsx letting you passing cars (Especailly if you are going to pass a higher HP car or car with same acceleration, which required followed a little closer at the corner exit. Not to mention they tends to have stickier tires and drivers are not afraid put half of their tires on gravel..etc etc.)
If you would like then you could install those clear bra/ stongard on bumpers, but with my experience you will get awful lot of rocks chip at the fender, side vent, A pillar area... Besides rock chips, if you are fanactic about your car looking good once its off the track, you need to give a full bath on her and rubbing wax over all the melting tire bits. (Black gooey stuff that flied at you from other car or your own tire.) Your rear bumper and lower valence took a beating from your rear tires and the heat from exhaust too...

Well, you will learn that once you been to the track, you will most likely not going to get a 10/10 paint job from your local car show contest.

Is it well worth it? I highly recommend any nsx driver to at least try once. Heck, I actually tried to convince my wife going there with her TL just for the driving education.

Getting day off for track day from your work could be a problem too, as most of them are on weekdays.

If your nsx are in good shape in terms of suspension, engine and tranny. I will just get a set of track pads and motul brake fluid. Attend a few events for HPDE. Then at that point, you could decide if you really want a track car.

5k would only be a starting point for your track car needs. as with the nsx, you will slowly putting more and more stuff in it and it just snowball from that point. CRX, Civic EG/EK, Integra, Miata, BMW E30 and Porsche 944 is the favorite in the grassroot track car category.
 
jond said:
The last event at summit I went to, a TON of people wrecked. A vette flipped end over end right in front of me. I have part of it on tape. My instructor wrecked his Type-R on the first lap(almost rear ending a NSX!). And I spun my car up onto a curb(no damage).
Click to expand...

that nsx was me...

i remember seeing the type-r in my periphial view and slowing down just in case..

paid off extensively.

x
 
ditto what "scin" said about the desirability of the track having large(er) run-off areas. Also- VBNSX mentioned several mishaps at Summit Point: Was it on their Main Course or the much more tight (with VERY small run-off areas) of their Shenandoah Course?

The NSX is a great car to track "as is". The only problem I had was brake shudder on OEM brakes that were not properly bedded. I did upgrade to Axxis "performance" pads, and with proper bedding-in, the shudder disappeared completely. (There are numerous posts on this).

If you're worried about stone chips, a bra and/or racing tape will help protect you. Cheaper than racing tape (and more readily available) is the blue "painters' tape".

Warning: The go-fast crack pipe is truly addictive. :biggrin:
 
it was on the main course. I stopped taking my nsx to the shenandoah track b/c i bottomed out everywhere...

hey if you're worried I have a colgan car bra that covers the whole front end which consists of the front bumper, headlights, and the front half of the hood that I'll sell to ya for cheap.. :biggrin:

x
 
Go to Avis or any rental company and rent the car. Take it to the track and see if you like it first before you spend more money on it.
 
DCNSX said:
If you're worried about stone chips, a bra and/or racing tape will help protect you. Cheaper than racing tape (and more readily available) is the blue "painters' tape".

Warning: The go-fast crack pipe is truly addictive. :biggrin:
Click to expand...

I hadn't thought about tape! We have 24" rolls of low/mid tack protective overlam at my office, I'd bet that would work pretty well and not require too much effort to apply.

I'm not worried about the GFCP on a road course so much as the jail time for doing 100mph in a 25mph zone. :redface:

NRG said:
Go to Avis or any rental company and rent the car. Take it to the track and see if you like it first before you spend more money on it.
Click to expand...

Do you think I should purchase the Collision Damage Waiver?

Me: "Hello AVIS customer service?"
AVIS: "Yes sir, how can we help you?"
Me: "My rental car is damaged and I need a replacement."
AVIS: "We can do that for you sir, where are you?"
Me: "Uhhhhhhh, turn 12 at Road America just in front of the stands..."
 
If I like it (and you know I'll like it!), buy something like a WRX STI or an EVO VIII for $20k or an El Cheapo '85 vette or Celica something for around $4k-5k and do weight loss and suspension upgrade.
Click to expand...
Buying a dedicated track car depends a lot on your own personal lifestyle, expendable income, mechanical ability and simple desire. Do a couple of track days and let us know what you think then.

But, if you do get to the point of buying that $20k EVO or any street legal car that you want to strip down and hop up, stop and consider buying a purpose built race car; Plain and simple it's lots more speed for the same money and has many other advantages too depending on what your underlying motives are. Just a thought.

Good luck.
 
Hi,

I started tracking my NSX last summer. I went to 4 events. My car is my baby to and not a track pig by any means. I would die if I damaged it. That being said..

1. If you are ever worried about damaging your car while at the track, you are driving beyond your ability. You should feel comfortable at all times. If anything or anyone makes you uncomfortable at the track it may not be the right event for you.

Take your time and learn your car and the track. The NSX is unbelievable at the track. Pro drivers were asking me for a lap or two because of the car's reputation. Go at your own speed and have fun.

2. You haven't really owned your NSX until you take it to the track. Once I had finished my first session as a novice, I no longer had the itch to spend piles of money on modifying it. It is amazing what it can do in the stock form.

Besides people get into trouble when the difference in ability of their car and their driving gets too large (eg 17 year old in a Viper). Modifying your car will open up this difference and cause you grief not joy.

Now, go, find an instructor and have some fun!
 
Chuck said:
RP-Motorsports said:
Well I HIGHLY suggest that since you are in IL, you join the BMWCCA ASAP!!!!!

http://www.bmwcca.org/

And then sign up for the HPDE that will be @ Road America on May 6, 7.

QUOTE]
I agree with the first statement but definitely not the second. Road America is not the place to start your first HPDS. You should be looking to run tracks like Autobahn, Putnam Park or GingerMan. These are the best tracks to learn on then progress to the more famous tracks like Road America, Mid Ohio etc. BMW is running a school at Gingerman (the safest track I know) and their cost is $295 for members ($345 non members). Or, and this is a shameless plug, check out www.cgimotorsports.com for the best value in drivers schools. If you are interested in the BMW drivers school, private me at [email protected] and I'll send you their application. If your interested in our drivers school, we're planning an NSX event for May. Ken will be providing more information on that in the near future.
Click to expand...

Sorry Chuck, I forgot to mention CGI. I jumped at the BMW event for him, because I knew Ken would be there, and it is one of the first events on the plate for the season. RA is safe for a novice with the BMW club. The instructors in the novice group are awesome at keeping control and safety priority one.
Click to expand...
 
RP-Motorsports said:
Well I HIGHLY suggest that since you are in IL, you join the BMWCCA ASAP!!!!!

http://www.bmwcca.org/

And then sign up for the HPDE that will be @ Road America on May 6, 7.
QUOTE]


I'm not seeing that event on the calender. Do you have any more info? I did find a Putnam Park event the following week that might be good too.
Click to expand...
 
Once I had finished my first session as a novice, I no longer had the itch to spend piles of money on modifying it.
Click to expand...
I'll add "How suck I am??" to that ...

but then instead of getting a nice carbon fiber front lip...
you will spend thousands for track tires, pads, rotors, brake fluid, motor oil... then different suspension pieces and bits, helmet, 6 point harness and harness bar, racing seats... then looking into gauges, oil cooler, roll bar/cage, HANS, accusump...etc. it got slippery pretty fast. and then I'll add "I'm suck, I don't have a decent job to pay for all that"
 
One of safest things you can do is start at a track with plenty of runoff. The tracks in Texas were quite safe. Only one turn could lead to tirewall contact. So I knew that I could push the NSX in a somewhat safe environment.

I would say that you don't need to to worry about rock chips and marbles in the green run group.:wink:
 
i dont understand why ive read "celica" and "track car" together so many times...i would agree with the miata. maybe even a 3 series bmw. (completely stripped of course).
 

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