taking a daily driver to lapping day...

[NSXDreamer2]

Hi all, I would like some advises:

My buddy at work is going to his first lapping day on his daily driver (92 civic ex, lowered) with me. He's a guy who raced kart but as far as going to the track with his own car, this is his first time.
I have another co-worker drag raced with his old 70's car so he gave a lot of advices to him but they don't seem make sense to me...(or so I read in this forum)

Since you and some of the members here raced frequently with INtegra/civic, I'll rate you guys more creditable than my dragracing freind; please give us some advise. You don't need to explain to me but please just let me know what he should do to make the car endure the whole track day.

1. Don't use Synthetic Oil, use 20w-50. (I recomment him using 10-30 mobil 1) He's inclined to use straight 30. Which one should he used? (The weather will be like around high70's if it's not raining.)

2. I used motul brake fluid myself, is there any other brake fluid that's comparable for track performance (boiling point) but a little bit more affordable for him??

3. If he can only afford one or the other, a vented rotor with normal generic pad or race pad with stock solid rotors??

this is his daily commute car and he drives more than 80miles to/from work everyday, so he couldn't afford any damage to his car by this event. Thank you in advance for all your advise.

 

[nsxtasy]

The key thing is to realize that, since this is apparently his first track event, the chances are that he will not be using more than about 20-30 percent of the capabilities of his car. He'll be spending his whole time and concentration learning what to do, where the track goes and where the line is, etc. He won't be overcooking the car. Consequently, there is no need to worry about any special preparation or fluids, other than making sure that the fluids are reasonably fresh and there is plenty of pad material.

1. Don't use Synthetic Oil, use 20w-50. (I recomment him using 10-30 mobil 1) He's inclined to use straight 30. Which one should he used? (The weather will be like around high70's if it's not raining.)

Is he going to drain all his oil and only start his car at the track? Because those are the only cars that generally use a straight-weight oil. Otherwise, he should use a multi-viscosity oil, that is thin for starting when cold, and thick when hot. Chances are that his best bet is going to be the viscosity that is recommended for his car's engine, based on the ambient temperatures in your area. That is probably 5W30, not the viscosities you mentioned. While synthetic oil has some advantages over conventional oil, I don't think it's an absolute requirement.

Bottom line: As long as his oil has been recently changed (within the past 3 months) using the proper viscosity for his engine, there is no reason to change anything. No need to change the oil.

2. I used motul brake fluid myself, is there any other brake fluid that's comparable for track performance (boiling point) but a little bit more affordable for him??

Motul is not expensive; it costs less than $30 for enough to completely flush the brakes.

However, if he has flushed his brake fluid within the previous 6 months of the event, he can just run with what he already has in his car. It's doubtful that he's going to boil the brakes in his first track event. So, no need to flush the brake fluid, either.

3. If he can only afford one or the other, a vented rotor with normal generic pad or race pad with stock solid rotors??

I really doubt that he is going to put that much heat into his brakes in his first event that he even needs to worry about it. My suggestion would be to just use his stock solid rotor under any circumstances, and if he has plenty of pad material on his brakes, then just use what's on the car already. So, no need to change pads or rotors, either. However, it would be a good idea to bring along an extra set of brake pads - and if the extra set is a higher-performance pad (not necessarily a track-only pad), that would be fine. In the unlikely event that he uses up all of his brake pads at the event, he can change to new ones there.

this is his daily commute car and he drives more than 80miles to/from work everyday, so he couldn't afford any damage to his car by this event.

Tell him to start out slow, and learn the line. Then gradually go a little bit faster and faster as he learns the line and where he wants to be. This will be safer than trying to go fast all at once and picking up bad lines and bad habits.

 

[nsxtasy]

I was asked whether my advice would be different for someone who had a fair amount of experience at that particular track. My responses would change as follows:

1. Engine oil - no change to what I wrote previously

2. Brake fluid - perhaps consider flushing with Motul if the boiling points of the brake fluid used previously were not very high (although even plain old Honda brake fluid is pretty darn good when it's reasonably fresh)

3. Brake pads and rotors - consider swapping to a high-performance brake pad for the track, but keep using the stock rotors

 

[NSXDreamer2]

thank you very much, Ken, that's exactly what I needed to know.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

I will agree with Ken on most points, but not all of us are as laid back as others.

First off, I have absolutely cooked my stock brakes to beyond mush on a simple touring session many times. FYI touring sessions are slow speed (80mph tops) track familiarization laps. Remember Ken even the novice sessions have students running 100+ mph. I actually was doing 120 mph on day two of my first school! Therfore I will have to totally dissagree with Ken on the pads and especially the brake fluid. It is hard to learn anything when all that is on your mind is "will my car have any brakes at the next corner?" Tell him to buy at the very least some inexpensive fluid such as Valvoline Syntec, Motul etc. which is made for ABS equipped cars, and exceeds DOT 5 in performance. Very inexpensive, and a beginner will NOT cook it. If he does NOT know how to flush his lines, take the car to a shop (probably will have to for tech anyway)

Next give your car a fresh oil/filter change, and Mobil 1 is an excellent choice. (I usually keep it on the high end of full) Also bring a few extra quarts along and check it after every session along with radiator fluid, brake fluid, and lug nut torque.

OEM rotors will be fine, and usually OEM pads are as well. Have an extra set of pads on hand, as well as tools to change them. (practice this ahead of time at home) It would be an option to try some other moderate level performance pads, but not needed at the rookie level. I would NOT reccomend full race pads to a rookie, because they require a few laps of heat generated braking to be effective.

Other equipment needed will be a Rubbermaid tub to keep stuff dry in the event of rain, as well as to store tools and everything else that you must remove from your car. A jack, lug nut socket and torque wrench. An air compressor is a benefit, but you may be able to borrow one. (keep tire pressure consistant-remember you may gain a lb or two because of heat generated on the track) Bring money, or a cooler with plenty of fluids for your body ex-gatorade.

Last but not least is safety! Have a correct Snell approved helmet, working seatbelt (OEM or aftermarket) Make sure all latches (hood, doors, trunk) and windows work correctly, and make sure loose items are secure (battery, seats, exhaust, bumpers etc.)

You will learn more at the end of your first weekend, that I can tell you here! The biggest things that I can remember driving home that first weekend, was that I had everything wrong to go fast. Before my first school, I thought I needed a ferrari or tons of bhp adders to my car to be fast. The truth is brakes, tires, suspension and experience can and will beat a higher horsepower car anyday if they are weak on just 1 of the following--brakes, tires, suspension, or experience.

Learn the lines, stay consistant lap after lap with braking points, and the lines. Don't follow (copy) the car in front. Concentrate on "your" lines. Gradually pick up speed like Ken said each session (only if you feel comfortable that you have mastered the points and lines at that pace)

Race on!

 

[xsn]

I agree with T Bell on the brakes. On an NSX a newbie may be fine as-is but with Civic stock brakes even for the first track event some good fluid and an extra set of pads are very sensible and as "nsxtasy" said he will use the brake pads eventually any way.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

1. Don't use Synthetic Oil, use 20w-50. (I recomment him using 10-30 mobil 1) He's inclined to use straight 30. Which one should he used? (The weather will be like around high70's if it's not raining.)

How many miles on the engine? Is it burning any oil? If it does burn oil, use synthetic 20w-50. If it doesn't burn oil, just use 10w-30 and check the oil level after each session. I assume this car was daily driven and have many mileage.

2. I used motul brake fluid myself, is there any other brake fluid that's comparable for track performance (boiling point) but a little bit more affordable for him??

Get ATE superblue or something similar. For around $12, it is a no brainer.

3. If he can only afford one or the other, a vented rotor with normal generic pad or race pad with stock solid rotors??

I assume you mean cross drilled and blanks. Not vented and non vented. As The 92 civic EX comes with vented front rotors and drum brakes in the rear. If that's the case, he should just use stock rotors. Make sure it has adequate thickness, on the rotors and the pads. If he use stock oem pads, not kragen or pepboys oem like pads, he should be fine.


Lastly, go to the track with a learning attitude. Eager to listen and follow instruction. Don't try to prove anything or be someone he is not. Remind him everybody had to start the same way before.

 

[nsxtasy]

I will agree with Ken on most points, but not all of us are as laid back as others.

I agree with most of T Bell's points. However, I disagree on some - and IMO it's not a matter of being "laid back", but rather, of (a) learning from experience, and (b) not going overboard. When I refer to learning from experience, I'm not talking about learning the racetrack. I'm talking about learning what your car needs, what you need to bring to the track, etc. When you first start out, you should try using your car bone stock (or in whatever condition it's in), with reasonably fresh fluids, just to see what it can do. It's quite possible that the car may do just fine, as is. Once you go to the track a few times, you will learn which parts need upgrading (because you encounter problems with them), which tools to bring, etc. I don't believe that a beginner should do the same things as someone who has a hundred track events. Each person needs to learn his own car, his own abilities, etc and make decisions based on those personal experiences.

I agree with most of T Bell's other advice. But I consider some of it to be overexcessive and unnecessary - and unnecessary items and tasks can be not only a waste of time, but also a distraction from learning what tracking is all about, and having fun doing it. When it's your first track event - keep it simple, and have a good time. You're going to need all your concentration just to learn the track, and learn what you're supposed to do (it's NOT the same as a go kart event). Don't get too overloaded with advice.

Therfore I will have to totally dissagree with Ken on the pads and especially the brake fluid.

Funny how you claim to "totally disagree" and then you turn around and give pretty much the same advice that I do. I have yet to hear of anyone who boiled his fresh brake fluid in his first track event in a lightweight car like a Civic, based on attending 100+ track events. But in my second post, I also said that flushing with Motul isn't a bad idea. Just like my advice with the brake pads was mostly the same as T Bell's. So I'm not sure whether that even qualifies as disagreement, but if you have a problem with what I wrote, either your experience is very different from what I have seen, or you came up with an entirely different, and incorrect, interpretation of what I wrote. Probably a little of both...

 

[NSXDreamer2]

Thank you very much, Ken, TBell and Andrie... you guys've been very very helpful.

I will forward this to my buddy, and hopefully it will help him make some decisions.

As I wasn't being too specific on my buddy's driving skills and his experience, nor none of you guys know him or saw him in action.. I appreciated the advices all of you gave. Ken and TBell, please don't start arguing over that... I will feel bad...

Again, thank you guys.

Ferrand.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

I have yet to hear of anyone who boiled his fresh brake fluid in his first track event in a lightweight car like a Civic, based on attending 100+ track events.

Thanks for taking it easy on me!

My Integra weighed 2600 lbs and I cooked the brakes on the 2nd lap of the weekend with a 100% OEM setup. 9/10 complaints I hear about people talking about their car is the brakes in all run groups. (excluding aftermarket guys) NSX 3.0 actually cooked his OEM NSX brakes and couldn't get his lines right due to braking too deep one lap and then over compensating the next all due to mushy brakes. (Discussed at length a few months ago in a BBK thread). Your line of thinking is keep it simple and learn what your car needs. Well after you put it in the tires, you truely will learn that your car needed aftermarket fluid and pads, along with a hood, bumper, rim, radiator....... I feel that anytime you are exceeding the speed limit lap after lap, it is just like sex. Don't take the unecessary risk. Protect yourself with brake fluid, and great pads. You shouldn't have to worry about stopping.

I have also cooked my Audi A4 brakes after a few laps as well in a touring session. Cooked brakes takes all of the learning and fun out of an event.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Can I add to make sure he has some negative camber on the tires. My friend brought a totally stock 2002 Civic Si with just 17" wheels and I managed to cord the tire on the outer sidewall cause he is running 0 camber. This in only 2 session

His oem brakes were holding fine though.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

H&R's will take care of that!

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Most people that daily drive their lowered car install camber kits to make them 0 degree to save tires. Make sure it has at least -1 camber.