What should the entire job cost to switch the system out? Freon is $60.00 a can in Atlanta, and If I need a new compressor or whatever I dont know how many cans it takes to fill'er up. Also should this only be done by Acura or is it ok to send to another ac shop?
Switching from R-12 to 134a
- Thread starter 2-Saw
- Start date
Conversion kit $60-70
EDIT: See below for discussion about the labor required, and also the R-134a refrigerant needed.
EDIT: See below for discussion about the labor required, and also the R-134a refrigerant needed.
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nsxtasy said:
your joking..right??
what do you think is going to happen in 1 hr labor?
According to every Retrofit kit I have ever used you must replace all the O-rings in the system....flush out all the R-12 system oil (lubricant) and then add R134 oil and recharge the system...not gonna happen in 1hr.
BTW the system holds 32-34oz of R-12
My bad; I was going from memory of people's quotes.zahntech said:
How much R-134a (not R-12) does it take, and how much does that cost?zahntech said:
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Castrol sells an R134A retro kit that includes the Flush,Orings,fittings...it's not very Expensive..around 75-100$...Evac and recharge is 1.0hrs on it's own..replacing all the Orings in the system....Evaporator,condensers,receiver/dryer,compressor all have min 2 Orings each..the labor for retrofits at every shop I have ever worked for was min 3 hrs+1hr for Evac and recharge.
The system holds the same volume R12 or R134A
4hrs labor at Aprox 90$ per=460$
Retrofit kit Aprox 80$
2 lbs R134A 24$ per=48$
Aprox 588$
PAG (polyalkylene glycol) oil is a lubricant used with R134a refrigerants...Std Mineral oil is used with R12 ..PAG oil is supposedly destructive to the R12 spec Orings.
The system holds the same volume R12 or R134A
4hrs labor at Aprox 90$ per=460$
Retrofit kit Aprox 80$
2 lbs R134A 24$ per=48$
Aprox 588$
PAG (polyalkylene glycol) oil is a lubricant used with R134a refrigerants...Std Mineral oil is used with R12 ..PAG oil is supposedly destructive to the R12 spec Orings.
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Ester Oil is compatible with BOTH refrigerants. PAG is not what you should use for a R12-R134a conversion IMO. Also I have not had the change ALL the o-rings. Are you saying pull the dash out to change the o-ring seals on the evaporator too?
I would expect this job to cost about $300, I actually just put a new condensor in an older Accord (1992) that was still R12. Used Ester Oil, changed the o-rings I disturbed (Condensor and Dryer) ALWAYS REPLACE THE RECIEVER/DRYER, and got a reasonable deal on the conversion of $200.
Add half again for an NSX, and I think you will be fine.
JMO, from practical experience. I was charged $400 for my NSX to have the compressor changed and converted from R12 - R134a(I supplied the compressor), but we found it actually needed a new clutch, so the conversion really was in the $200-$250 range.
Costs above were at two different places, just for reference.
Regards,
LarryB
I would expect this job to cost about $300, I actually just put a new condensor in an older Accord (1992) that was still R12. Used Ester Oil, changed the o-rings I disturbed (Condensor and Dryer) ALWAYS REPLACE THE RECIEVER/DRYER, and got a reasonable deal on the conversion of $200.
Add half again for an NSX, and I think you will be fine.
JMO, from practical experience. I was charged $400 for my NSX to have the compressor changed and converted from R12 - R134a(I supplied the compressor), but we found it actually needed a new clutch, so the conversion really was in the $200-$250 range.
Costs above were at two different places, just for reference.
Regards,
LarryB
Larry Bastanza said:
The Conversion "Kits" say you must replace all the Orings..however most shops do not...And yes Ester oil is the way to go IMO too, But you may have to ask some probing questions to find out exactly what they plan to do to convert your car.
Larry why didn't you do the retrofit yourself?....
Yes and the owner decided to skip the evaporator Orings, as Larry noted you must remove the dash...Ester oil was used and no problems have been noted...How a shop in some other shop in some other town decides to perform this service may be different..
I have seen cars where they evac the system then add R134A fittings then recharge with 134a and Pag oil....1 month later the system was leaking and the compressor was destroyed!
Anyone looking to have this done must ask many questions and remember that A/C work is not cheep.
I have seen cars where they evac the system then add R134A fittings then recharge with 134a and Pag oil....1 month later the system was leaking and the compressor was destroyed!
Anyone looking to have this done must ask many questions and remember that A/C work is not cheep.
zahntech said:
I think we are on the same page, sounds like we agree that Esther oil would have made the above conversion work properly
.zahntech said:
I do not have an evac system, so I have a place close that does this for me. So I repaired the Accord then let them charge it. I figured let them swap the fittings and charge it, after I replaced the condensor.
Regards,
LarryB
I'm not saying this is the correct way to do things, but I just got the $40 conversion kit at Walmart (which uses ester), and did it myself. So far the A/C has survived one Florida summer nice and cool.
wildbill846 said:
There is no substitute for success, especially with A/C in your neck of the woods
. My only concern about the home kits is how they purge, or not, the old stuff out. The systems I have seen purge, pull vacuum(30 minute vacuum pull is recommended IIRC), then charge.
With that said, You have a cold running system and you have not used any sealants to fix it, so I think it should last, barring future leaks.
Was yours leaking and repaired or did you just decide to convert it? I know most of the DIY kits I have seen start with "Your A/C system must be working properly before installing this kit"
Regards,
LarryB
Anybody know if and how the generic kits sold in auto parts stores and department stores might differ from the kit sold by Acura for its cars?wildbill846 said:
Esther Oyl is Olive Oyl's sister.Larry Bastanza said:I think we are on the same page, sounds like we agree that Esther oil would have made the above conversion work properly
Any comments on Freeze 12 as alternative to R134a conversion?
My NSX is factory 134a but am considering what to do with my ZXTT.
Supposedly no seals or anything to change - you're not supposed to mix (federally mandated) i.e. just top up, although I seem to recall the old ads saying it was completely compatible. They do sell kits for switch-over.
My NSX is factory 134a but am considering what to do with my ZXTT.
Supposedly no seals or anything to change - you're not supposed to mix (federally mandated) i.e. just top up, although I seem to recall the old ads saying it was completely compatible. They do sell kits for switch-over.
wildbill846 said:
.
Humm...Very odd, you cannot buy such products in my area...It is against state ecology laws for anybody who is not "certified" to work on A/C systems to do any repairs or retrofiting,....
As for "Freeze 12" I have no idea..never heard of it
Z,
They do sell those retrofit kits out here in the east too. Even though technically it is illegal to dispurse R12 into the atmosphere. Go figure.
Ken,
I beleive the retrofit kits from Acura come with a reciever/dryer and fittings, not just the fittings.
Regards,
LarryB
They do sell those retrofit kits out here in the east too. Even though technically it is illegal to dispurse R12 into the atmosphere. Go figure.
Ken,
I beleive the retrofit kits from Acura come with a reciever/dryer and fittings, not just the fittings.
Regards,
LarryB
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wildbill846 said:
Same here. Wolly-World special for under $40 and has been running flawless for 2 summers now.
IMHO, the key to keeping any A/C in good working condition is to use it at least twice every month for 10-15 minutes at a time, even in the winter. Reason being, doing this prevents the seals from drying out and eventually leaking...
apapada said:
What he said
!LarryB
"FREEZE 12" is as close to drop in as you will get. The only difference is your high pressure might run a bit higher. As for the R12 to R134, I have 6 work vehicles and 2 NSXs running the R134 with the factory seals still in place, we have not experienced any increase in leaks due to the incompatibility of the refrigerant oils and the rubber seals. No better test than the wonderful South Florida summers.
Armando
Armando
Does it do what they say - i.e. will actually cool better than either R12 or certainly 134a?MiamieNeSeX said:
Are there any other replacement R12's that are worth considering? There are a ton of them out there!
D'Ecosse said:
FREEZE 12 is as good as the R134, but I would recomend a complete evacuation before adding the R134. Nothing works as good as the R12 on paper, but you would be hard pressed to notice any difference on a day to day basis between the R12 and the R134.
Armando
zahntech said:
Yes, the R12 needs to be purged by a qualified shop, but much just like HALON these days, you don't have a hard time finding shops willing to take it from you.
