Suspicious NSX

[aling289]

Hi guys,
I am looking to purchase an NSX and I am quite interested in this one. https://globalluxuryimportsllc.com/1993-acura-nsx-c-1619.htm?make=ACURA&model=NSX&. However, carfax says the mileage is inconsistent and if you look closely at the exhaust tip, one side is bent. Another is the abnormal wear in the bolster on the driver seat and the bubbling effect on the center console. I also noticed that on the trunk picture, it appears that the lining has been removed before? I am not sure. I just sold my supra and this will be my first NSX so I have no experience on what to look out for. Can someone help? Thanks!

 

[mwagner10702]

Mileage looks to be an input error. If you look at the picture of the speedometer you can see the odometer shows 32,539. Bolster wear appears to be from an owner who didn't pay attention to his weight (big fatty). Must have slammed his big ass into the seat bolster each time he got in it. Probably nailed the console with his big fat elbow too. It is 24 years old though. In order to replace tail light bulbs you need to remove the trunk liner to gain access. Sloppy technician work from the looks of it. Exhaust tip is a result of the owner backing into something or someone backing into the tip.

Seats can be repaired / recovered. Console as well. I'd be more concerned about the mechanicals (compression, leak down, TB / WP replacement, maintenance records, etc.) I'd also do some background work into the dealer. Don't know anything about them. Looks like it was for sale in TN at one point in time. I'd definitely get a PPI from a reputable shop if this is the one you want. GLI doesn't have many BBB reviews and the ones that are posted aren't great.

 

[aling289]

Thanks for the reply mwagner10702. Is it normal for the center console trim to wrinkle at such low mileage? I live in California so If I am interested, I might fly out to check for myself. Thanks

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Completely agree with mwagner10702, the dash wrinkle is normal with age. I have a 1991 and had mine redone about 4 years ago. Seat Bolster wear is also typical. Someone once commented here that it is important to move the seat all the way back upon entrance and exit to the car to avoid that, but I never remember. Also the point about the maintenance is key, you need records, or you should assume it needs it, and negotiate accordingly. I agree also you need a PPI. The lighting in the pics shows some not so nice small scratches, etc.

My $.02,

Regards,
LarryB

 

[goldNSX]

Mileage looks to be an input error.

That's a 'mild description' of what I think. While the shift lever is mounted the other way round how can it be that the left stereo knob looks sandblasted after that mileage. The car looks like their detailler did his maximum but still not enough. The left exhaust tip is a no-go. Looks like they gave up on it. At least they are honestly revealing this.

 

[flabuf]

I think you should look at a slightly newer, somewhat higher mileage, well sorted out NSX if you want an exceptional experience. Something say in the '96 range with twin turbos... Yeah, that would fit the bill nicely. I may know of someone with one for sale at a reasonable price.

 

[aling289]

Thanks for all the responses guys. One more question is about how much is it to get the NSX timing belt and water pump changed? Thanks

 

[mwagner10702]

Thanks for all the responses guys. One more question is about how much is it to get the NSX timing belt and water pump changed? Thanks

Depends on the shop. Dealer will be more expensive than the indys. Plan on roughly $1500 - $1800 all in. Water pump is around $260, timing belt around $162, plus coolant and tensioner. Given that the car is 24 years old you may want to budget coolant hose replacement as well. There are 23 hoses. A complete kit is approximately $420 plus labor and coolant if you don't do it at the same time as you do the TB/WP. You could be looking at $3000 or more if you do the TB/WP/Hoses. Others can chime in and correct my numbers as necessary.

Then there is the brake fluid flush, clutch fluid flush, transmission fluid, etc, etc. Supercars can be super expensive.

 

[mwagner10702]

Thanks for the reply mwagner10702. Is it normal for the center console trim to wrinkle at such low mileage? I live in California so If I am interested, I might fly out to check for myself. Thanks

Based on what I've seen so far, I personally would not spend the money to look at this car. There are better ones out there. Have you reviewed all the for sale listings on Prime? I'd buy a car from a Prime member before a dealer any day of the week. I bought mine from a Prime member and got an awesome car.

Don't be in a rush. Take your time and find the right one.

 

[drew]

IMHO: This car looks like it was at the beach for a while, lots of button wear for 32K miles and pretty dinged up.

I always like to feel the front fenders at 12 o'clock to for a bend in between the fender liner and the actual fender. It will tell you how hard they snubbed the driveways. Assume it needs a timing belt and do not drive without a new timing belt.

It also looks like a "flip", Shows in Juliet, TN as late as 2017/10/17 with miles of 32530.1. https://www.usedcarsgroup.com/used-1993-acura-nsx-mount_juliet-tn-jh4na1150pt000056 The

Also as late as 2017/8/26 at www.tomwoodvolvocars.com/used/Acura...e0adf5dc31896536f1a36.htm+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk


I don't know what NSX's are going for now , but that one seems ridden hard and overpriced. They did a cheap detaling job and did nothing else. They did put 9 miles on it so they are driving it a bit.

edit:
Vin:JH4NA1150PT000056
miles: 32539.8
2017/10/26 https://globalluxuryimportsllc.com/1993-acura-nsx-c-1619.htm?make=ACURA&model=NSX&

 

[gleibig]

They have quite the Fisker collection. Has anyone here driven one?

 

[brettowen]

Agree with all comments. There is a LOT of wear on this car for the miles indicated so either the miles aren't real or it wasn't well taken care of. Paint looks to be maybe a 7 out of 10. Lots of superficial corrosion and it really doesn't look like it was detailed. Not by a professional anyway. Also...is it me or does it look like the driver side front fender doesn't quite mate up 100% with the driver door? Bottomline: There are better choices...especially at that price. Good luck in your search!

 

[NSX2398]

If you haven't already done so, you might also want to check out the NSX Wiki on this site .. it's on the red action bar at the top of most pages. It's organized by topic and there's some information for you in the Purchasing an NSX section that you should find useful. Some of it may be a little dated but most is still applicable. I noticed that that VIN isn't in any of the info volunteered to the Registry or generally in any posts so no help for you there.
Good luck .. as the owner of a daily driven '91 with almost 200k miles, I have to agree with all of the comments above especially the value of maintenance records and the need to get the TB done. Don't be afraid of high mileage if the records show proper maintenance was done .. but people mistakenly think the TB only needs to be done based on mileage .. but it's whichever comes first - 9 years or 80k mileage. The consequences of a broken TB are very expensive.

 

[aling289]

hey guys! are vin tags not on all nsxs? I owned a supra before and their use to be vin stickers on each body panel. On NSX's I've been seeing, I dont see them on the fenders and quarter panel.

 

[drew]

No. At least not the early production of NSX's....which is most of the cars.

The Federal requirement was that 50% of all models get body labels starting in 1994.

The Mylar NHTSA VIN labels were phased in over a long period and required on high theft vehicles. Even if 100% of the NSX's were stolen, the low production numbers would not hit the 'high theft" when compared to Civics, Camry's and [mini-vans].

Very few sports cars tend to be stolen when compared to commuter/family cars.

 

[aling289]

So a 1991 NSX probably didnt get labels at all?

 

[mwagner10702]

hey guys! are vin tags not on all nsxs? I owned a supra before and their use to be vin stickers on each body panel. On NSX's I've been seeing, I dont see them on the fenders and quarter panel.

NSX panels didn't get VIN tagging until 2000 model year.

 

[mwagner10702]

So a 1991 NSX probably didnt get labels at all?

Not on the major body panels.

 

[aling289]

Thanks mwagner. Is the radio also another common defect on the nsx? at about what mileage do they go out and is it due to age? thanks you've been really helpful!

 

[mwagner10702]

Thanks mwagner. Is the radio also another common defect on the nsx? at about what mileage do they go out and is it due to age? thanks you've been really helpful!

Radio failure has more to do with age than mileage. Another failure point are the individual amps that power each speaker. The Wiki has more info than I can type here.

http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Stereo

Since my car didn't come with a radio I opted to install an NSX-R blanking plate when I refinished my center console. My tunes emanate from the six speaker sound unit behind my head.

 

[drew]

To answer basic questions and develop your knowledge base for the NSX: You MUST to spend time reading through the DIY Forum, Electronic Forum, and Wiki's that go back decades. This will give you all you need to know about the NSX, where the problem areas are and how they get fixed. Nearly every problem and solution has been discussed with the Gen1 cars....from slow windows, timing belts, stereo repair and part interchange.

The biggest issue I see with new Gen1 NSX owners is the lack of spare part support from Honda. It's a problem. I just went through a correspondence with Gates over the shelf life of timing belts (8 years), they have sold less than 20 units over the past 7 years worldwide with a MOQ of 100 units they state it is unlikely they will continue carrying the T231 belt. And FWIW, the T231 belt is ONLY used in the C320A and C32B engines which are unique to the NSX. The only known source for T231's is Japan.

I just purchased a NSX at a bargain price because the previous owner could not get a MOT due to a failing SRS among other things. The car is sitting awaiting a new timing belt, because I cannot easily determine "new" from "unused" replacement timing belt.

The NSX is quickly becoming a true specialist car to repair and is going to require highly skilled or dedicated owner to keep them running. If you want to own and, most importantly, enjoy an NSX you need to become an involved owner. I recommend you start now and knock off a few forum pages a night. Take a look at what Kaz, Sudesh and Larry are doing.

 

[mwagner10702]

The biggest issue I see with new Gen1 NSX owners is the lack of spare part support from Honda. It's a problem. I just went through a correspondence with Gates over the shelf life of timing belts (8 years), they have sold less than 20 units over the past 7 years worldwide with a MOQ of 100 units they state it is unlikely they will continue carrying the T231 belt. And FWIW, the T231 belt is ONLY used in the C320A and C32B engines which are unique to the NSX. The only known source for T231's is Japan.

I just purchased a NSX at a bargain price because the previous owner could not get a MOT due to a failing SRS among other things. The car is sitting awaiting a new timing belt, because I cannot easily determine "new" from "unused" replacement timing belt.

Drew,

You may need to expand your parts search to the US as well as other locations. I was able to locate a T231 belt on the US Amazon web page (can ship to NZ via AmazonGlobal).

https://www.amazon.com/Gates-T231-T...automotive&vehicleId=1&vehicleType=automotive

Also found belts from Rockauto.com (Dayco 95231K1 or 95231K1S)

and scienceofspeed.com

https://www.scienceofspeed.com/inde...-super-kevlar-ii-timing-belt-nsx-1991-05.html

Not sure if Rockauto ships to NZ but I am sure SoS would.

I would also contact Marc (Mark?) @ theNSXshop.com. He is in Japan and his web site shows the OEM Honda belt available.

https://www.thensxshop.com/others/oem-honda-nsx-na1-timing-belt

 

[drew]

<Grin>

I have done exactly that, I've been sitting on one from Amazon USA that I just received a couple of weeks ago. The Brand New In Box one I received in NZ was 19 years old which started my correspondence with Gates, MOQ's, sales quantity, and future support.

I cannot determine the age of the timing belt I received from Amazon US, yes it is "BNIB", but is it "new" enough to install? IDK. Neither does Gates apparently.

I cannot determine the age of a TB in a Honda part bag either. I have one of those too. I do not know of Honda rotates and disposes of time-sensitive stock. (Woodwork?)

I am considering ordering one from RockAuto, but I don't believe it will extend my KB as they also draw from independent warehouses.

 

[mwagner10702]

WOW! You make a great point about "BNIB" and age. I would have never thought a new in box TB could potentially be 19 years old. Kind of mind blowing.

 

[NSX2398]

I cannot determine the age of a TB in a Honda part bag either.

Drew .. I understand what you're saying but I think you're overthinking this. I bought a '91 in 2001 with 80k miles on it and a new TB. So, not only did the original TB last about 9 years and 80K miles in the southern California and Arizona heat but the one that replaced it was BNIB but probably 9-10 years old too as mine was probably one of the few that had reached the 80K miles mark so would have come from the early stock that was sent to parts in '91. Then in the next 8 years, I proceeded to put 80k onto that probably 10 yr old replacement belt .. and they weren't easy miles. About 25k of them were winter miles with frequent cold starts at -40 C .. think of the stress at those temps .. and yet when it too was replaced at 163k, it was done by one of the most well-known NSX mechanics in the Southwest US and he said it didn't look any different from any of the 100s that he had done. They'd never admit it but I'm sure Honda very conservatively underrates these products .. they wouldn't want the legal liability of engine damage due to a TB not lasting the recommended service interval. Another way to look at this is the huge number of lower mileage cars that have been sold in running order yet several times the 8 year recommended interval and on the original belt because owners thought that they hadn't reached 80k yet and didn't need to. By that logic, every '91 out there should now be on it's 4th TB yet I bet you could count the number on one hand that are. I'll be on my 4th next year. So, my point is that I understand what you're saying but I'm not sweating it.