Speculations for 2022 and beyond

[sbkim]

Looks like no changes for 2021 but what are people hearing or reading about 2022 MY and beyond? I've heard everything from no changes to Type R, convertible. May be reality lies somewhere in between.

Here are few articles that I found on the net:

Carbuzz - no substantive changes...

"next series of updates is likely to happen in 2022, at the earliest. But what about a complete redesign or, at the very least, a major refresh? Neither is likely to happen..." "Chances are the next series of upgrades will be limited to ECU and suspension adjustments, new color and wheel options, and maybe, just maybe, some performance enhancements. The NSX simply doesn't contribute enough to Acura's bottom line to justify serious investments. But the good news is that the NSX isn't going anywhere. It still helps bring in a solid number of customers to showrooms, as any good halo model should."

https://carbuzz.com/news/only-one-older-acura-wont-be-redesigned-anytime-soon

Motortrend - no change through 2022:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/acura-nsx-supercar-lives-2022-leak/

Never heard of this guy but he makes it sound like increased HP and other significant changes

https://www.carindigo.com/news/2022...d-prices-release-date-specs-features-pictures

 

[drmanny3]

I tend to agree with the last article you posted. Very typical of Honda/Acura in how they refine their cars.

 

[docjohn]

They certainly have left HP on the table with that motor at 500. I would think 550 from the tuned ice and another 100 e-motor should be quite competitive.

 

[Honcho]

My go to guy for the last 10 years has been RolledaNsx over on TOV. He's been wrong about some things, but right about a lot too. The latest from him is the following:

Honda was planning a big update for the 2022 model:

• More power from the ICE (keeping up with the Joneses, e.g., C8, new Maclaren, etc.)
• Interior update
• Exterior MMC to align with the current brand design language
• Type-S version with some weight reduction and badging
• Possibly Gen2 version of the E-motors- lighter, more powerful, more efficient
• No Type R
• No targa planned

But then 2020 happened, COVID, the financial crash and the rapid rise of electric cars. First casualty of this was F1. Now, Honda is debating what to do with the NSX, so the update is on pause. No F1 is making them question whether they want to be in sports cars at all anymore. Low NSX sales are also factoring in here. Apparently the engineers and old-timers are lobbying to keep it, but the bean counters are pushing back and using the 2020 crash as leverage to say they shouldn't waste more money on it.

Apparently, he thinks the cancellation of the 2021 in Japan is because the 2022 update is so significant that no one will want to buy the 21... kinda like what happened to [MENTION=4282]docjohn[/MENTION] and his 96.

We'll see if he ends up being right.

 

[docjohn]

Ha Ha you have a good memory, I was told by the dealer (Greenwich) that no major changes for 97....yea....

 

[Heavymetals]

Sounds like the bean counters need to be shown that there is profit in low production specialty cars.

The CIVIC type "R" doesn't seem to have suffered. They now have a limited # of special built type "R"s!

I would like to see an NSX with a V12, I imagine HONDA could stick two CBX motors together........

 

[drmanny3]

My go to guy for the last 10 years has been RolledaNsx over on TOV. He's been wrong about some things, but right about a lot too. The latest from him is the following:

Honda was planning a big update for the 2022 model:

• More power from the ICE (keeping up with the Joneses, e.g., C8, new Maclaren, etc.)
• Interior update
• Exterior MMC to align with the current brand design language
• Type-S version with some weight reduction and badging
• Possibly Gen2 version of the E-motors- lighter, more powerful, more efficient
• No Type R
• No targa planned

But then 2020 happened, COVID, the financial crash and the rapid rise of electric cars. First casualty of this was F1. Now, Honda is debating what to do with the NSX, so the update is on pause. No F1 is making them question whether they want to be in sports cars at all anymore. Low NSX sales are also factoring in here. Apparently the engineers and old-timers are lobbying to keep it, but the bean counters are pushing back and using the 2020 crash as leverage to say they shouldn't waste more money on it.

Apparently, he thinks the cancellation of the 2021 in Japan is because the 2022 update is so significant that no one will want to buy the 21... kinda like what happened to @docjohn and his 96.

We'll see if he ends up being right.

Yes I understood the same. I suspect the market will rebound quickly now that the 1.9 T passed and we have vaccines available. If they decide to go forward we are probably looking at the 2023 model year. This is different from the market crash of 2007/8. That was deep and long lasting.

 

[DJ Iceman]

Sounds like the bean counters need to be shown that there is profit in low production specialty cars.

To a true bean-counter, there's not. They are dispassionate, uninterested in the product itself, and only care about the raw numbers on the balance sheet. They are incapable of understanding concepts like "brand equity" or "halo effect" because those things cannot be objectively quantified. Continuing production and sales of a car like the NSX will require high-level executive support with the power to overrule the bean-counters.

 

[neuronbob]

I don’t see Honda making big changes to the NSX in the near future simply because of COVID and what it’s done to the economy as a whole.

I do see them keeping it for quite a while longer as a halo car elevates any brand as a whole.

I’ve followed Rolledansx on TOV for years, myself, and am not sure about what he says this time. We’ll see.

 

[2slow2speed]

Apparently, he thinks the cancellation of the 2021 in Japan is because the 2022 update is so significant that no one will want to buy the 21... kinda like what happened to [MENTION=4282]docjohn[/MENTION] and his 96.

Your source might want to check things again.

The NC1 would need features that are included in Honda Sensing/Acura Watch (Lane Keep Assist, Automatic Emergency Braking) for it to be viable for sale in Japan as a 2021 MY (equivalent to a 2022 USMY given how model years are handled in Japan, the fiscal year in Japan starts April 1st and ends in March 31st of the following year).

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Au...tomatic-brakes-in-new-cars-from-November-2021

 

[gleibig]

Lambo doors.

 

[Heavymetals]

Has anyone taken a look at the limited edition CIVIC type "R"?

Almost double the price and it has no A/C or radio, a track car.

Maybe they need to do the same to a number of NSX's .

Offer a basic track version that is "bare bones" RWD, no frills (A/C or radio) and light as can be.

Just don't make it double/triple the price, like the GT3 version.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

The Nissan GTR Nismo, the track oriented lighted one had a bigger price, just a part of the game the manufacturers play (I believe it did have carbo-ceramic brakes and some CF goodies)

 

[Honcho]

Offer a basic track version that is "bare bones" RWD, no frills (A/C or radio) and light as can be. Just don't make it double/triple the price, like the GT3 version.

We've been batting this idea around too. From Acura's perspective, they already make a NSX-R: it's called the NSX GT3. The idea being that customers of means who desire a track day weapon can just buy the GT3, which shares many components with the base car and is built at the same PMC. But, the GT3 is not street legal, unlike, say a 911 GT3 RS. I think the right move is what you say, but rather than strip out the base NSX, beef up the GT3 to get it to DOT standard and sell it as Acura's answer to the Porsche RS. Heck, you don't even have to touch the hallowed Type R badge either. Call it the NSX GT3 SL (Street Legal) or something similar. Give us a 9,500 rpm, no frills carbon everywhere version and put a $50k premium on it. It has direct lineage to some very successful race programs- tap into that for the marketing and it will sell.

 

[Heavymetals]

I see one of the biggest hurdles with the NSX is a normal hot rod type guy can't work on it (and maybe just as well.)

Look at the original CTS-V. The bean counters made it almost impossible (notice the 6 lug wheels?), yet it was a success to the point GM whored the crap out of the V badge and ruined the car in later iterations (my opinion).

A modders "wet dream".

Maybe HONDA is doing a test with the Type "R" Civic and thinking about a similar NSX.

 

[sbkim]

Sort of like R8 RWS - rear wheel drive with lower base price, say about $110K?

Has anyone taken a look at the limited edition CIVIC type "R"?

Almost double the price and it has no A/C or radio, a track car.

Maybe they need to do the same to a number of NSX's .

Offer a basic track version that is "bare bones" RWD, no frills (A/C or radio) and light as can be.

Just don't make it double/triple the price, like the GT3 version.

 

[2slow2speed]

I see one of the biggest hurdles with the NSX is a normal hot rod type guy can't work on it (and maybe just as well.)

Look at the original CTS-V. The bean counters made it almost impossible (notice the 6 lug wheels?), yet it was a success to the point GM whored the crap out of the V badge and ruined the car in later iterations (my opinion).

A modders "wet dream".

Maybe HONDA is doing a test with the Type "R" Civic and thinking about a similar NSX.

You must be really new to Honda.

Honda Civic's were the car to mod in the late 80's, 90's, early 2000's, until they became just utilitarian and became a pale image of their original selves, they finally got things right again with the 10th Gen Civic and that is why they have sold quite well and have quite a following again.

The Civic Type-R (AKA FK8) has sold well because the car was never available in the US, and the car been based on the 10th generation platform. The 10th generation platform was designed from the ground up taking into account that a CTR would be in the works, that is why even the regular FK7 (Civic Hatcback) chassis is stiff and the car handles so well.

And the CTR is the Halo car in the Civic lineup.

 

[Heavymetals]

Not "new" to HONDA.

 

[2slow2speed]

Not "new" to HONDA.

OK. Hopefully you get my point.

The Hybrid SH-AWD NSX should have been the halo car for the NC1 family of 2nd gen NSX's. Just like a Turbo S is the halo car for Porsche 911's of all flavors.

 

[Heavymetals]

The limited edition CIVIC type "R" is not a halo car, it is a specialty (track) vehicle.

The NSX is a halo car.

https://wikicars.org/en/Halo_vehicle

 

[docjohn]

Lambo doors.

this is prime's Halo member...

 

[2slow2speed]

The limited edition CIVIC type "R" is not a halo car, it is a specialty (track) vehicle.

The NSX is a halo car.

https://wikicars.org/en/Halo_vehicle

People who own lower spec Civic's aspire to own the CTR some day, there are plenty of CTR's that are never tracked. The CTR showcases what the 10th Generation Civic platform can do (just happens to show what it can do at the track) Having held the track record for FWD at the Ring, doesn't that showcase something?

Same goes with the GT3, GT3RS, and others in the Porsche lineup, just because they are track cars doesn't mean that other people don't aspire to own them. See how many GT cars see actual track usage. The Turbo S, ultimate 0-60 performance but been able to be a cruiser, also showcases what the platform can do, just happens to be in an entirely different direction than a GT Porsche car.

Isn't the ZR1 the Halo car in the Corvette lineup, most advanced technology, etc. It also happens to be the fastest Corvette as well.

Same goes for the CTS-V that you used to own, wasn't that car the top of the hill in the CTS lineup? Someone might have purchased a regular CTS and then upgraded to a CTS-V later on.

 

[Heavymetals]

The CTS-V was the "hot rod" of the CTS offerings, but was not GM's "halo", that has always been the CORVETTE.

The CTS-V was a return to hot rods.

A halo is supposed to represent the best a manufacturer can offer, typically technology wise, ergo they are usually hybrids, like the La Ferrari and PORSCHE 918.

Also, most halo cars are not advertised on TV as they are EXPENSIVE.

 

[2slow2speed]

The CTS-V was the "hot rod" of the CTS offerings, but was not GM's "halo", that has always been the CORVETTE.

The CTS-V was a return to hot rods.

A halo is supposed to represent the best a manufacturer can offer, typically technology wise, ergo they are usually hybrids, like the La Ferrari and PORSCHE 918.

Also, most halo cars are not advertised on TV as they are EXPENSIVE.

Good thing that I am not in marketing or sales, since I would probably flunk any tests and question many things simply based on common sense.

A Halo car does not have to be expensive, you decided to list Hypercars as examples of Halo cars.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictures/2021-honda-civic-type-r-limited-edition/

Coincidentally look at what showed up in the mailbox at my place in Osaka today. Guess that Honda-e must not be a Halo car as well given that it shows up in CM's in Japan and it doesn't cost a bazillion dollars.

 

[drmanny3]

Bottom line, Honda will not produce a NSX without the electric motors upfront and in the rear. It just will not happen. There is no interest from Honda/Acura to go backwards to make a cheaper car so that some here can afford it. I am sorry but all your wishes are just not going to be fulfilled. I also doubt that Acura will take the GT3 car and make it street legal. That would be just a shit load of work for how many sales? Certainly not from the group that is already complaining that the current price is too high for the NC1. Really, you cannot pony up the money to purchase a NSX for $160k $50,000 down and a loan for the rest???? Yet you will easily buy the $500,000 NSX GT3. I swear there are some folks who are just smoking way too much weed on this forum. I get it, it is nice to wish for things....

And frankly very few current cars can be easily worked on. That died a long time ago. Changing out the exhaust, or changing out the air filters, or adding an intake.... is not working on an engine. Without dynos and someone who is knowledgeable about the software, you can only attempt simple things. Tell me a current car where you can easily modify the engine, or ECU software. It just is not happening anymore. In the old days I played with jetting carburetors, changing out cams and cranks, polishing intakes and tuned exhaust. You cannot even get the software for the 91 through 2005 NSX. Everything is a piggy back that attempts to change the parameters. Many of the newer NSXs will attempt to learn past the piggyback units. It has been a problem for a long time.