Snap Ring Problem

[Mikey Rudamann]

I have a 1991 Silver NSX with 60,000 miles on it and the snap ring problem has just surfaced. I took it to my local dealer and they confirmed the problem and my car is in the range. They contacted the DSM to try for a goodwill. He flat out told me "NO!". Then to make matters worse, the service Tech told me I should get a new Tranny because he thinks mine might be un-repairable. I don't want to have to sell the car becaus I can't afford a new Trans. If anybody out there has had a similar experience and could help me, I would really appreciate any feedback.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

 

[jlindy]

Mike

Welcome to my world of frustration about four months ago. The bad news is that Acura isn't willing to do crap anymore, but will go half on a new tranny replacement if you complain enough. At the tune of about 8k, your responsibility will only be 4k. Still Ouch!

There are really a few different scenarios here. Is your vehicle just in the range, but the snap ring is not broken? If so, you may not ever have a problem as many NSX owners have similar vehicles. You don't necessarily have to fix this if the above describes you. Not all tranny's in the range experience the snap ring problems. Unfortunately, it sounds like that is not the case in your situation.

If the snap ring is in fact broken, are you experiencing signs of failure such as the gear shift moving back and forth when you accelerate/decelerate at slow speed? Also, do you hear loud crunching or grinding as the metal fragments of the snap ring grind around in the tranny?

If you haven't experienced the above symptoms, you can have your tranny rebuilt much much less than the dealer will tell you. Even if you have had some of the symptoms of failure, you still have a chance that your tranny can be rebuilt, but this is less likely and depends on how long the symptoms have been present.

For rebuilding, Mark Basch is one of the best NSX mechanics in the country and can rebuild for around $2000-2500. I am sure there are probably 100 Nsxprime users that could give you his number. Second option, Dali Racing sells a snap ring fix it kit that comes with everything you need to rebuild the tranny including case, snap ring, etc. for only $650. daliracing.com These are OEM factory parts so you don't have to worry about getting aftermarket junk.

Once you purchase it, you need to find someone to put it in for you. You really want someone that has worked on NSX's before. Barn Man is a great mechanic recommended on this site and is in the midwest area. He quoted $650-$850 in labor to rebuild. If you don't want to hassle with the expense of getting him to you, then the dealer could do it too but they generally don't want to touch a job like that.

Per Barn Man, if you can't find an NSX mechanic, NSX tranny's are almost identical to all honda tranny's and if you find a good honda mechanic that has done this before, you could find someone locally to rebuild it. Either way you are looking at a worst case of about $1600, if your tranny is rebuildable that is. That is a hell of a lot better than 4-8K.

Don't sweat it, don't sell the car. It may not be as bad as you think, coming from someone who just went through it. Mine runs as good as new now and I love it more every day.

 

[Mikey Rudamann]

What did you have to end up doing to fix the snap ring?? I just bought the car and the owner told me that there was no problem and it was not in the snap ring range. After further inspection, I found the snap ring was broken and it does pop out of gear and move around in acc/decc. The good news is that I don't hear any loud grinding noises. I hope I caught it in time to just the rebuild done. Your advice is very helpful and I appreciate your reply

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[nsxtasy]

First of all, don't expect goodwill on a twelve year old car - not just the NSX, but any car from any manufacturer.

If you didn't drive on the broken snap ring for any length of time, it might be possible to replace just the snap ring and the lower transmission case (parts cost ~$1500) and you'll be good to go; if you did, you might indeed need a new transmission. (As noted by Mark Basch, NSX expert, in this topic.) You need a top-notch mechanic to evaluate your car and determine what you can get away with. (It's worth noting that some mechanics recommend a new transmission because they don't have a lot of experience doing internal transmission work.)

If I were in your position, I would have my NSX flat-bedded to Davis Acura in Langhorne PA, on the other side of Philly from you. They have the top NSX mechanic on the East Coast (Bernie) and he will know what it really needs and can take care of it for you.

If you're considering any transmission upgrades - a new clutch, different gears - this would be the time to have those done, since he'll be opening up the transmission anyway.

 

[nsxtasy]

jlindy,

While Mark Basch and Barn Man are both top notch NSX mechanics, they are not the only ones in the country. There are many others. I have heard of great NSX mechanics at dealers in Chicago, Milwaukee, Boulder, Portland (OR), Sacramento, Dallas, Raleigh-Durham, and Philadelphia, as well as at independent shops in San Francisco, Orange County (CA), Sacramento, and Las Vegas. I'm sure there are many more in places that I'm missing.

Bernie at Davis is only 50 miles or so away from Mike. It doesn't make sense to ship his car halfway across the country when he's lucky enough to live this close to one of the experts.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 30 January 2003).]

 

[Biaggi]

If I were in your shoes, start looking up on the 4-sale ads of owners selling their transmissions. You might find a great deal on someone who has one with alll the upgrades (short gears, etc).. OR you may want to upgrade to the 6spd tranny as well....
Yup Acura won't Goodwill jack related to the Snap Ring TSB...

Here's a start for your search: http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/007750.html http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/001172.html http://www.nsxsc.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000765.html

Good luck!


------------------
Biaggi
92 NSX #483
94 CBR900RR

 

[jlindy]

NSXTASCY

I hoping you or LUD would reply with some other alternatives too. I only gave those names because they are the only mechanics that I know at this time. Since I am fairly new to this site, I knew some more experienced veterans could jump in with other referrals.

Mike

In my case, I had no symptoms of failure and luckily discovered it before. I ended up doing the Dali racing fix it kit and had a mechanic install it locally. It ended up costing me about $1500-$1700 to fix.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Mike,

You have gotten some great advice here. jlindy's $1500-1700 cost for the fix is right on. One thing for sure STOP DRIVING IT. This will insure no more damage. Having the countershaft moving back and forth (which is why the shifter moves that way) is not at all good.

The only other issue here is most fo the time, if you are in there, a new clutch is in order, no labor cost, but an additional $1500. Usually this comes to a $3000 total repair cost.

I do not know if your clutch is original, but at 60K miles, if it is, it is most likely the time to do it also.

You will do the job twice, if you do not replace it.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[PFORPAUL]

Does the $4000 figure for a new trans,with the
50% discount include the installation? If so
I would go this route.Throw in a new clutch
at the same time and you'll be set-you will
also have some sort of Acura warranty.If you
sell the car -you will probably get part of the cost back.

If 4000 does not include installation-box it
up and ship it to one of the recommended
mechanics.

The more I read on this great forum the more
determined I am to find a 97 or later NSX.
Pay now or pay later!

 

[jlindy]

The 50% goodwill figure is if you are lucky and they are feeling generous at the moment. They don't even want to do that anymore, so you may get nothing. They offered that to me, but only if the dealer replaced it. Also just to clarify, it is 50% off of 8k not 50% off of 4k. Parts quoted me a list of over $7000 for the tranny. $1000 seems cheap for a dealer to install it, but that is what they told me the total bill would be.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by jlindy:
I hoping you or LUD would reply with some other alternatives too. I only gave those names because they are the only mechanics that I know at this time. Since I am fairly new to this site, I knew some more experienced veterans could jump in with other referrals.

No prob.

FWIW, here are the names of the places I was referring to above, in addition to Basch Acura Service in Phoenix and San Diego, and Barn Man in Nashville, who should still be on anyone's list:

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I have heard of great NSX mechanics at dealers in Chicago, Milwaukee, Boulder, Portland (OR), Sacramento, Dallas, Raleigh-Durham, and Philadelphia

Chicago - Muller's Woodfield Acura (Ted), Pauly Acura (Craig or Chuck)
Milwaukee - Acura of Brookfield (Bill)
Boulder - Flatirons Acura (Chris)
Portland (OR) - Acura of Portland (Morgan)
Sacramento - Niello Acura
Dallas - Goodson Acura
Raleigh-Durham - Leith Acura
Philadelphia - Davis Acura (Bernie)

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
as well as at independent shops in San Francisco, Orange County (CA), Sacramento, and Las Vegas.

San Francisco (Daly City) - Hilltop Auto Service (Don)
Orange County - NSX Modified (Larry)
Sacramento - Pettitt's Auto (Bruce)
Las Vegas - FactorX Motorsports (Ken)

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I'm sure there are many more in places that I'm missing.

Still true.

However, I haven't been hearing overwhelming praise for either of the dealers in St. Louis, sorry. If I lived there, I would probably trust them with routine services like oil changes and brake work, but would probably be going to Chicago or Nashville for 30K/60K/90K/clutch/timing belt type of work, and to Milwaukee for extensive mods like superchargers.

Originally posted by Larry Bastanza:
The only other issue here is most fo the time, if you are in there, a new clutch is in order, no labor cost, but an additional $1500. Usually this comes to a $3000 total repair cost.

Larry, that sounds a bit on the high side, doesn't it? I think a typical cost for a clutch replacement on a '91-96 is around $1200-1300 parts, $700-900 labor. You're right on, though, that if the old clutch is worn (as is likely on an original clutch on a car with 60K miles), you can save the labor charge by putting it in at the same time as the snap ring repair. Oh, I think I already said that above.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Hi Ken,

Yes, you are correct that could be a little on the high side, but it really depends on which clutch you chose, add the throwout bearing, pilot bearing, possible rear main seal. When I make an estimate like this I try to keep them favoring worst case, to not set any false expectation.

I had briefly discussed this with Goodson, as an example, and most of the time, they come in at $3000 average, when all is said and done for a snap-ring repair/new clutch.

My $.02
LarryB

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Larry Bastanza:
I had briefly discussed this with Goodson, as an example, and most of the time, they come in at $3000 average, when all is said and done for a snap-ring repair/new clutch.

Aha! That explains the difference. I wasn't taking into account the snap ring repair in my $1200-1300 parts cost; that was for the clutch only.

I think these prices are typical, give or take a couple hundred bucks:

Clutch replacement only ('91-93):
$1200 parts, $900 labor

Snap ring repair only (assuming it hasn't been driven so far that other components are damaged):
$1400 parts, $900 labor

Snap ring repair and clutch replacement done at the same time:
$2600 parts, $900 labor

As usual, Goodson may be able to offer a slightly better price along with their excellent service.

 

[Lud]

Also keep in mind that if the car has a decent number of miles, it may make sense to replace some other parts when you have the transmission open. The cost of many of the parts is relatively low compared to the labor to get to them, and some things just wear over time.

I'm curious why the clutch price above is specified only for '91-'93 cars? I didn't read the whole thread in detail so I may have missed something.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Lud,

I think Ken typoed. He really meant 91-96, since we all know the 97+ is way different in price

Were all confusd about the other thread in regard to the alignment!!!!!!!!!!!

LarryB

[This message has been edited by Larry Bastanza (edited 31 January 2003).]

 

[nsxtasy]

When I originally specified the price of a clutch replacement, I noted it as '91-96.

In the later post, I was comparing the clutch replacement alone, with the snap ring repair alone, and with both done together. Since a snap ring repair will only affect a '91-93, I referred to the clutch replacement with those years.

You guys are brutal... Paul65K catches me once, and everyone goes on a rampage!!!

 

[Mikey Rudamann]

Thank you to all the posters for your information and input. Your help has been greatly appreciated

 

[Biaggi]

Mikey:
If you plan on dishing out $5k, then go with Comptech's $4995 deal:

Rebuilt box w/4.55:1 R&P and Short Gears For Years: 91-94
Installation Time: 6 hours
Remanufactured gearbox with new synchros, bearings, NEW 4.55:1 Ring and Pinion and NEW short gear set. Shipped truck freight collect.
Requires $500 core charge, refundable upon return of good transmission core.


I'm sure they have a warranty on their products too! http://solar.innercite.com/comptech/560100.html

Man, I wish I did this when my snap ring went!..... damn hindsight is 20/20 though... But hey, I can't complain cause I'm very fortunate to be able to enjoy the NSX!!!!!



------------------
Biaggi
92 NSX #483
94 CBR900RR

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Biaggi:
If you plan on dishing out $5k, then go with Comptech's $4995 deal:

Of course, you still have to pay for the installation labor on top of that.

I wonder if they check the core (the transmission you return to them in exchange) to see if it's in snap ring range, and if so, if they replace the snap ring and transmission case before remanufacturing it? And if they refuse to return the core charge?

EDIT: I see that Science of Speed has a similar program, and they do NOT accept a snap ring range transmission for the core exchange. So it's possible that this may be a problem for you in purchasing a remanufactured transmission from Comptech as well. Obviously, discuss it with them if you're interested in pursuing this option.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 05 February 2003).]