Snap ring failure - poll

Joined
8 October 2001
Messages
1,570
Location
St. Louis, MO
For all of us who have had a failure and for those in snap ring range who have not had a failure, I would like to gather information about the failures in the past. Then I will chart this information and maybe we can find a pattern to help those who have not had the part fail yet.

If you have had a failure please help out by listing the following information about your car and the repair.

Year made:

Last six numbers of VIN:

Trany No:

Date of Failure:

Miles at Failure:

Performance Mods on vehical at time of failure:

Dealer or Private Repair:

If Dealer any Goodwill for repair:

Any track events prior to Failure:

Miles since repair:

I think with this information I should be able to build a report that may help others. I am willing to do the work if you guys can help with the data.

Thank you in advance.

Dave
 
Yes Ken, I am looking for a pattern and need more information to find it than just mileage.

Thanks,

Dave

(is there an award for post count, I know I am not in the running) :)
 
Snap Ring Poll Reply

Year made: 1991

Last six numbers of VIN: JH4NA1153MT002895

Trany No: Will post later, it was in range specified in TSB though.

Date of Failure: December 2002

Miles at Failure: 63,000miles

Performance Mods on vehical at time of failure: None

Dealer or Private Repair: Private

If Dealer any Goodwill for repair: Dealer would not goodwill or repair transmission. The only thing they would do is give me half off a new one.

Any track events prior to Failure:
Not sure, I'm the 3rd owner

Miles since repair: 8,000miles
 
You won't find a pattern, even if you got every owner of every in-range vehicle to pass their info on to you (which likely would never happen, since 75+% probably have never been to NSXPrime.com). You would have false negatives from people who are in range but haven't failed yet, even though their transmission would eventually fail.

Take the DAL race NSX's case - vehicle had 45K miles on it until it's in-range transmission had the preventative maintenance done at NSteXpo. No one will ever know if that car would have eventually failed or not.

The best advice I can give anyone is to read Mark Basch's explanation of the issue in the NSX FAQ. This is the most detailed explanation of the problem I have found anywhere.

EDR
 
Year made: 1991

Last six numbers of VIN: ....000822 (european car)

Trany No: in range (do not know exaftely, car was totaled)

Date of Failure: November 2000

Miles at Failure: 40,000miles

Performance Mods on vehical at time of failure: Remus Exhaust

Dealer or Private Repair: Dealer

If Dealer any Goodwill for repair: no

Any track events prior to Failure: Not sure, I was teh second owner (but probably not...)

Miles since repair: 6,000miles (then car was totaled)
 
erobbins

I think this is actually a worth while pet-project, provided others provide the information....Regardless of the holes from non-participating members/owners, I think it's tangible to start building a formula for cars in range, based on milage, and use. I've read the FAQ regarding the snap ring failure, and the tranny's missed manufacturing process, and think that if a significant number of people came forward to report, it would justify ligitimate action from Acura, whether it be from local dealers in the way of 'goodwill', or a factory recall/replace from the factory itself(I'm actually pretty surprised that it wasn't to begin with)....They are obviously aware, but what exactly is their stance on the subject.....If I know Honda, (I've been racing their motocross bikes for nearly 20 years), they tend to stand by their products to the end..... I wonder if it's possible to obtain Tech Service Bulletins on the subject as well, and maybe get a local Acura NSX Dealer's Service Dept. to participate in providing info from their distributed database....Anyone know anybody who is a tech, and has access to that kind of info could help immensly~I say, "worth while"~ Just my .02. Thanks~C.H.
 
Re: erobbins

Chris Hart said:
I wonder if it's possible to obtain Tech Service Bulletins on the subject as well

You mean, like this one?

To get data meaningful enough to draw any conclusions, you would need reports from at least 20-30 percent of the ~2400 cars in the range - and that means from ALL the cars, chosen at random, rather than self-selecting because only those who have had failures decide to report. And if you're looking to determine the repeating pattern of failure - x out of every y transmissions fail - then you would need closer to 90 percent of the cars in the range.
 
Chris Hart said:
If I know Honda, (I've been racing their motocross bikes for nearly 20 years), they tend to stand by their products to the end.....

I have talked about my personal opinions on why the snap ring issue has been handled like it has over the years, and why Honda didn't step up to the plate and issue a recall off the bat.

Honda is a fiercely competitive Japanese business, which has for a long, long time been the number two automaker in that country behind Toyota. They have two brilliant ideas about the same time: to create a "luxury" brand for the North American market to compete with the Germans, and to produce a high-quality, ultra-reliable, relatively low cost supercar to compete with the Italians.

Acura is born. The NSX is introduced.

The NSX established Acura as a sports-brand, not just a luxury brand, and was bringing people into their showrooms during a time where the US auto market was in a real slump. The NSX was the pinnacle of Japanese engineering and craftsmanship.

Now you must understand a bit about Japanese culture to really see why there was never a recall that was issued. To have a major problem like this in the drivetrain of a high-visibility supercar would not only kill sales of the car, but also harm sales of other Honda/Acura branded vehicles and certaintly ANY high performance vehicle Honda brought out in the next couple of decades. The Japanese do not want to admit defeat and bring that level of shame or dishonor to the engineers that created this product. Simple fact. Sounds corny, but it's true.

So, a TSB was issued in the US which advised dealerships to "look for the problem, fix it if you find it". Once vehicles were out of warranty, and the problems kept cropping up, they quietly fixed the problem through goodwill parts and labor. Over time, this goodwill was decreased to the point where it was no longer offered. This is when a class action suit was brought, unfortunately it was dismissed without prejudice, as it simply failed to state a proper claim under the laws of the state where it was brought.

While I disagree with Honda/Acura's practice of no longer offering goodwill parts AND labor to repair these transmissions when they fail, I understand why they have acted the way they have. It was a brilliant strategy. Issuing a recall brings the issue to the forefront. They weren't required to do that, because the defect doesn't constitute a safety hazard. So, issue a TSB which aren't readily available to consumers/owners and quiety fix it. When the cars are out of warranty, provide goodwill to keep everyone happy and minimize the potential for bad media coverage which would bring the problem to the forefront.

Remember the problems Audi had with a transmission problem in the 5000? Look at what it has taken them to recover from it. And to this day, people still joke about the problems... wondering if an automatic transmission A4 is going to spontaneously run them into a brick wall. It took Audi convincing Porsche to stop professional racing and assist with the development of the R8 which dominated prototype racing as they introduced all new models of vehicles to finally bring Audi back into the fold as a competitive manufacturer. Honda avoided all these problems by handling things they way they did, whether we agree with it or not.

Don't get me wrong... I am a HUGE Honda/Acura fan... every car I have owned except has been a Honda product with the exception of my Porsche 996 (which is for sale... replacing it with an S2000). I currently drive a TSX... my wife drives an RL... I'm part owner of an NSX race car... BUT: I don't have to agree with how they handled it, even if I would have done the same thing if I were in their position.

EDR
 
I agree with Ken - we should expand the info to include all cars in range. So if you have a 91-92 NSX in range please add your info just skip the parts about failures as it has not happened. For those of you who went the preventive route your info is needed as well. Just list the info that applies to your case. I will sort out the rest.

Dave
 
Maybe this will help:

92' NSX VIN 000429

-Snap Ring Failure at 56, 500 miles on 3/24/02. It was a cold day.
-Trans. # was in range, but I can't find that # now
-Bought car at 51,000- Third owner
-Hardly driven previous to me, Not tracked to my knowledge. I daily drive it. All stock.
-Transmission replaced through dealer, not goodwilled even after how hard I fought for that. But 10 yrs. old and third owner didn't help. But they did lop off about $2500 worth in the end.
-Boy I wish I had done more research when that happened, it could have saved me a lot of money. But it's done, the car is great and I have no more worries.
 
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