Short Gears / R&P done (pics)

Joined
5 August 2001
Messages
861
Location
Baton Rouge LA
All done with the conversion. Might I say, if you have not done this upgrade yet, do yourself a favor and put it on your 'Things to do list'. Its well worth it. Its amazing just how much of a dud the OEM 2nd gear is. I'm 100% content with the performance difference. The job was not bad at all. Just time consuming. I had a 14 year Honda Tech doing most of the work. Everything went well, with no hang ups. I have a spare NSX tranny sitting around that i'll be throwing the gearset and Ring & Pinion in shortly. Can't wait to do another one. Here are a few pics I thought you may all like to see.

This is the trans cracked open. Thats the mainshaft on the right, and the reverse gearset on the left.
DSC00651.JPG

Secondary shaft:
DSC00650.JPG

Pulled out of the housing:
DSC00655.JPG

DSC00656.JPG

Ring & Pinion:
DSC00658.JPG

DSC00661.JPG

All the new stuff, laid out nicely:
DSC00662.JPG


------------------
1992 NSX
VTEC Forums- The newest online discussion center, for Honda performance.
 
Very nice! What kind of R&P was it? 4.55?
 
Originally posted by BostonNSX:
how much you paid him to do the job?

Very little. We own an import repair shop together. It was a joint effort
smile.gif


Originally posted by Tiger740:
Very nice! What kind of R&P was it? 4.55?
Tiger, I heard too many bad things about the 4.55, so I went with the usual 4.23 from S.O.S.
smile.gif




------------------
1992 NSX
VTEC Forums- The newest online discussion center, for Honda performance.
 
Originally posted by NSXnBRLA:
I heard too many bad things about the 4.55, so I went with the usual 4.23 from S.O.S.

Bad things? Such as? This I gotta hear.
 
There is an NSX owner in our area that has the gears and 4:55's. His car makes a very annoying sound from the gearbox and the combo of the gears and the r/p combined with the Comptech SC on his car causes the car to hit redline too quickly in my opinion. Shifting gears is slowing down. He also claims to only be able to reach about 150 mph. That is a definent disadvantage IMO. I have driven his car several times, back to back with my own(with the same mods,but 4:23 and nitrous instead of SC)and my set up seems much more natural and linear. Not to mention I outrun him in the 1/4 easily. We have never raced on the interstate, but I can tell you that I have done 170 many times and if he cant break 150, then there's no chance there either. I believe Dave was looking for the most streetable set up without compromising top end or drivability. Having to shift 4 times before 85 mph would get on my nerves in a hurry.
 
Originally posted by SNDSOUL:
There is an NSX owner in our area that has the gears and 4:55's. His car makes a very annoying sound from the gearbox and the combo of the gears and the r/p combined with the Comptech SC on his car causes the car to hit redline too quickly in my opinion. Shifting gears is slowing down. He also claims to only be able to reach about 150 mph. That is a definent disadvantage IMO. I have driven his car several times, back to back with my own(with the same mods,but 4:23 and nitrous instead of SC)and my set up seems much more natural and linear. Not to mention I outrun him in the 1/4 easily. We have never raced on the interstate, but I can tell you that I have done 170 many times and if he cant break 150, then there's no chance there either. I believe Dave was looking for the most streetable set up without compromising top end or drivability. Having to shift 4 times before 85 mph would get on my nerves in a hurry.

I have heard people say that there was a problem with noise with the 4.55 R&P at one point, but that this has since been corrected.

With a stock '91-96 NSX, if you could redline it in fifth gear, it would be going 186 mph. You can't, because it's drag limited; the stock power is only able to overcome drag enough to accelerate up to 168 mph, which is short of redline.

If you can redline an NSX with a 4.55 R&P in fifth, it should be going 166 mph. It's possible that it might not have enough torque to go that fast because the torque curve drops somewhat above its peak around 6500 RPM. However, with a supercharger, I would be rather surprised if it couldn't get up to the 166 mph redline, given a long enough stretch of road.

With the short gears and 4.55 R&P, third gear is good up to 90 mph, so it's at 90 mph that you would be making your third shift, not your fourth shift. With the stock gears, this happens at 114 mph.

According to Bob Butler's figures, a car with the 4.55 R&P should be about 0.1 second quicker in the 1/4 mile than with the 4.235 R&P, with short gears or with stock gears. Those figures assume stock power, but I would think the advantage of the 4.55 would still hold with modded cars if the performance improvement ("area under the curve") was equivalent on both cars.

There are other disadvantages to the 4.55 R&P, such as poorer mileage and higher revs on the highway in top gear, but most of the differences are relatively minor. The biggest downside to the gearing mods is that the actual measurable performance improvement is relatively minor in relationship to the amount of money spent. The upside, of course, is that they are quicker nonetheless, and they also add a perception of greater acceleration because you reach redline faster, even though the difference in reaching a given road speed is not that dramatic.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 06 January 2003).]
 
nsxtasy,
I agree with you. for that money I rather spend that on a BBSC.

nsxborla,
thanks for sharing the pics. I am sure your car is faster. don't get me wrong if I had $3k to spend I would definitely do what you are doing.

[This message has been edited by madfast (edited 06 January 2003).]
 
Just because the 4.55 causes more shifts per lap hardly makes it "bad". As far as shifting more means slower, I don't buy that one. It's not like we are professional race car drivers and the split second it takes to throw the gear lever will cause us to lose a position on the track. No way.

Regarding an NSX with 4.23 out running an NSX with 4.55 in the qrtr mile. Sorry, if *everything* else is the same, this can't happen. Why? Because the 4.55 will result in more torque at the rear wheels. More torque means more acceleration. Perhaps the reason the above 4.23 NSX is outrunning the 4.55 NSX is because the nitrous shot is making more HP than the CTSC.

In some cases, earlier years of 4.55 manufacture produced some gearbox noise. I've had mine for going on three years and it makes no noise.

Finally, with regards to an NSX with short gears and 4.55 maxing out at ony 150, something is definitely wrong. I have the same tranny configuration at I hit 163 at 7500 RPM. Quick math says that at redline top speed will be 174.
 
Andy and Ken address the gear box wine. The gears are designed for better lubrication and have been for several years. If the 4.55 is installed now and exhibits this noise, the gears were not installed properly and is not the part's fault. I also have been using these for about a year +. The sound level from the transmission is the same as OE (ie. next to none).

I think people are overly sensitive to the comments about the higher RPM at cruise and massive speed this final drive will create causing the engine to hit the rev limiter in no time flat. However, the price is a deterent (more than twice the price), and the NSX-R has a good price and performance aspect, especially when used with near factory diameter rear tires.

Thanks Dave for the picts, they look great.

Cheers,
-- Chris

Originally posted by AndyVecsey:
Just because the 4.55 causes more shifts per lap hardly makes it "bad". As far as shifting more means slower, I don't buy that one. It's not like we are professional race car drivers and the split second it takes to throw the gear lever will cause us to lose a position on the track. No way.

Regarding an NSX with 4.23 out running an NSX with 4.55 in the qrtr mile. Sorry, if *everything* else is the same, this can't happen. Why? Because the 4.55 will result in more torque at the rear wheels. More torque means more acceleration. Perhaps the reason the above 4.23 NSX is outrunning the 4.55 NSX is because the nitrous shot is making more HP than the CTSC.

In some cases, earlier years of 4.55 manufacture produced some gearbox noise. I've had mine for going on three years and it makes no noise.

Finally, with regards to an NSX with short gears and 4.55 maxing out at ony 150, something is definitely wrong. I have the same tranny configuration at I hit 163 at 7500 RPM. Quick math says that at redline top speed will be 174.



------------------
Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
 
Originally posted by AndyVecsey:
Just because the 4.55 causes more shifts per lap hardly makes it "bad". As far as shifting more means slower, I don't buy that one. It's not like we are professional race car drivers and the split second it takes to throw the gear lever will cause us to lose a position on the track. No way.
We are talking about two different tracks(I use my car for Drag Racing)
biggrin.gif


Regarding an NSX with 4.23 out running an NSX with 4.55 in the qrtr mile. Sorry, if *everything* else is the same, this can't happen. Why? Because the 4.55 will result in more torque at the rear wheels. More torque means more acceleration. Perhaps the reason the above 4.23 NSX is outrunning the 4.55 NSX is because the nitrous shot is making more HP than the CTSC.

We dynoed on the same day, at the same place and yes I dynoed a little more in the HP and torque: Me--335HP/298torque---Tom--300HP/226torque
These figures were at the wheel with about a 90 degree temp.

In some cases, earlier years of 4.55 manufacture produced some gearbox noise. I've had mine for going on three years and it makes no noise.

His car was modded about 3yrs ago.

Finally, with regards to an NSX with short gears and 4.55 maxing out at ony 150, something is definitely wrong. I have the same tranny configuration at I hit 163 at 7500 RPM. Quick math says that at redline top speed will be 174.

This I did not try in his car, just going off of what he said.

[This message has been edited by SNDSOUL (edited 06 January 2003).]
 
Originally posted by AndyVecsey:
Just because the 4.55 causes more shifts per lap hardly makes it "bad".

The effect of the 4.55 on the difference in shift speeds is not likely to result in more shifts per lap. It will change the shift points, and change the spacing between the gears - for example, the speed variation within a given gear might be reduced from 28 to 25 mph. However, on a track, you're usually only going back and forth between two gears, aside from very long straights. The 4.55 will change shift points, which could have the effect of adding shifts at some tracks, and reducing shifts at others; however, this occurs primarily because a shift point is moved in or out of the speeds typically used on the track, not because the range of speed within a gear shrinks.

However, it can cause more shifts when accelerating from zero to a given speed.

Originally posted by AndyVecsey:
Regarding an NSX with 4.23 out running an NSX with 4.55 in the qrtr mile. Sorry, if *everything* else is the same, this can't happen. Why? Because the 4.55 will result in more torque at the rear wheels. More torque means more acceleration.

This statement is correct, within any particular gear. It is also true of any acceleration run from zero to any particular speed; however, it is not necessarily true of acceleration from one speed to another speed, because there are some speeds at which the shorter R&P forces you into a higher gear, so that acceleration is worse than with the longer R&P.

Another way of looking at this is to note that virtually all of the acceleration advantage of the shorter R&P comes when you're in first gear; once you're going through the rest of the gears there is no significant advantage. Bob Butler's analysis proves this, showing that all of the advantage of the R&P is achieved below roughly 30 mph.

Originally posted by AndyVecsey:
with regards to an NSX with short gears and 4.55 maxing out at ony 150, something is definitely wrong. I have the same tranny configuration at I hit 163 at 7500 RPM. Quick math says that at redline top speed will be 174.

I believe the figures in the FAQ (166 in this case) are based on the actual gear ratios. The difference from the 174 stated here is presumably due to speedometer error (which could be caused by different size tires, tire wear, or incorrect calibration which could be intentional or not).
 
Originally posted by SNDSOUL:
We dynoed on the same day, at the same place and yes I dynoed a little more in the HP and torque: Me--335HP/298torque---Tom--300HP/226torque
These figures were at the wheel with about a 90 degree temp.

That is a huge difference, particularly the torque figures.

Gearing changes generally produce less improvement than even modest power/torque gains; for example, the improvement in 1/4 mile times by changing a '91 NSX from stock gearing to the short gears with the 4.55 R&P is less than the improvement from adding as little as 15 hp.

There is a huge difference in the capabilities of your two cars, but virtually all of it should be ascribed to the difference in power/torque, not to the gearing differences.
 
Back
Top