Short Gear in 95/96 ?

xory72

xory72

Experienced Member
Joined
28 November 2007
Messages
621
Location
New Bern, NC
Hello all,

I just installed a short gear 5 speed in my '96 and I think I am experiencing issues with handling.

Most short gear write ups that I have see have all been in 1991 to 1994 but have never come accross one in a 95 or 96 that I know of. Well as you know 91 to 94 do NOT have EPS (electronic power steering) but my 1996 does.

From what I understand the way the EPS works on 95 and 96 cars is after 30-35 mph the VSS signals the EPS to turn it self off and the sterring becomes manual. When you slow down under the 35mph mark ... then the EPS turns back on.

Since I installed the Short Gear tranny ... my car now seems to have a "rolling" feeling to it. When I turn left and there is a delayed reaction to the rear of the car. Almost feels like the back end is swaying outward. Like turnning quickly in an SUV , you feel the body roll. I hope I explained that right.

What I am thinking is since I have short gears now the VSS is confused and not sending the correct signal to the EPS to turn off. Are my thoughts going down the correct path ... or is there something else I should be looking at. I love the short gears and it's a completely differnce car to me now ... but I do know the handling is not what it was before.

Here is what I plan to do to trouble shoot;
Update as of 10 pm EST
1. I am going to re check my work and make sure all suspension nuts and
bolts are tight just to make sure. All worked checked and everything is tight
2. Reset EPS and take it for test drive to compare. Reset by pulling clock fuse
If it goes away ... then maybe EPS was confused with new gearing.
If it does not change anything ... next step nothing changed
2. Unplug EPS
If is fixes the problem then I guess I have issues

Where should I go from here? Check VSS, Check EPS unit? Am I even going down the right path?

Any help, insight, thoughts or if someone has gone through this, please let me know.

I believe that the EPS is over reacting. What I mean is like it is over steering and the rear of the car are reacting slower then where the front wheels are pointing. So once it grabs you almost feel like your going to lose control ofthe car.
Next ... I guess I will disable the EPS and try manual to see if it feels like it used to be.[/I]

Help please!
 
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It almost sounds like your rear alignment is off. Possibly toe'd out instead of toe'd in. Did you have the rear alignment checked after you put everything back together?
 
EdinKali said:
It almost sounds like your rear alignment is off. Possibly toe'd out instead of toe'd in. Did you have the rear alignment checked after you put everything back together?
Click to expand...

You may be onto to something as others have mentioned this to.

However, before taking the suspension apart, I marked the position of the allignment bolts and put them back exactly the same way as they came out.

Something feels realy wierd and just not right. Almost like the power steering is over compensating. BTW, I do not have any TCS, EPS or MIL lights at all.

My car is also lowered and I have Tein Coilovers so it's really stiff per say.
 
Even though you marked everything, it may still only get you close regarding alignment settings. I would still get the alignment checked to make sure it is within spec to rule that out.

Try running without the EPS by disabling it and see the issue persists. Be careful as the steering will be heavier than you are used to in slow speed corners.
 
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xory72 said:
You may be onto to something as others have mentioned this to.

However, before taking the suspension apart, I marked the position of the allignment bolts and put them back exactly the same way as they came out.
Click to expand...

This is a good idea if you want to get the suspension back in the car but it really needs to be re-aligned. Make sure your ride height is checked and properly adjusted as well as the damper setting(if you have adjustable ones) when this is done as well.

What size tires/wheels do you have front and rear?

BTW, I have a 1996, short gears, 4.23 r&p and Tein RA's and do not have the issues you described. It is not the new gears causing your problem.
 
EdinKali said:
Even though you marked everything, it may still only get you close regarding alignment settings. I would still get the alignment checked to make sure it is within spec to rule that out.

Try running without the EPS by disabling it and see the issue persists. Be careful as the steering will be heavier than you are used to in slow speed corners.
Click to expand...

EdinKali Thank you for helping me on this! I will discionnect the EPS to see the outcome just because I am curious ... LOL

I'll find a place for an allignment today.

pbassjo said:
This is a good idea if you want to get the suspension back in the car but it really needs to be re-aligned. Make sure your ride height is checked ....

What size tires/wheels do you have front and rear?

BTW, I have a 1996, short gears, 4.23 r&p and Tein RA's and do not have the issues you described. It is not the new gears causing your problem.
Click to expand...

pbassjo Thank you for the insight. I am glad to hear that you have a 96 with short gears and almost the same set up. My car is lowered about 2" as well. I' am going to take both of your advice and get the car in for an alligment.

My tires sizes are
front 215 x 35 x 18
rear 275 x 30 x 19

The biggest problem I think I am going to have is finding a place that I can get may car onto their allignment rack.

I'll keep you posted. Not sure when I can have it done but it will be by Sat.
 
hey darrin,this place in cary
http://www.performance-chassis.com/
did a good job aligning my car.the owner mark cooper (i think) is a good guy.
i know it's not that close to you,but just passing it on.

good luck,robbie
 
Yes, do the alignment. Although marking will stabilize the camber, the toe arm is very sensitive to only the slightest camber change. I guess this is the case in your car. Recheck the torque on the specific bolts. More change in toe will make the rear-end feel loose and instable.
 
I'm surprised people with '95-96 NSXs would bother putting the short gears in, since the factory gears on the '95-96 are already shorter than the '91-94 (they're roughly 1/3 of the way from the '91-94 USIM stock gears to the JDM "short" gears).
 
Update,

Hey all,

I found a place that had their allignment rack sunk in the floor so my car could simply drive on due to how low it is.

I got the allignment done this morning and BANG ... fixed. I did not realize that an allignment would make the car feel the way it did but after seeing the before and after specs, the rear toe was way off on both sides... hence the steering in opposite direction I was turning.

In the end ... the car is like it was, handling wise. Thank goodness that was it and I did not have chase something else.

Thanks once again Primers! What an awesome community!
 
nsxtasy said:
I'm surprised people with '95-96 NSXs would bother putting the short gears in, since the factory gears on the '95-96 are already shorter than the '91-94 (they're roughly 1/3 of the way from the '91-94 USIM stock gears to the JDM "short" gears).
Click to expand...

According to this, the only difference is 2nd gear in the '95-'96 (the R&P, 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and R are all the same as the 1991-1994):
http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Gear_Ratios
 
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xory72 said:
Update,

Hey all,

I found a place that had their allignment rack sunk in the floor so my car could simply drive on due to how low it is.

I got the allignment done this morning and BANG ... fixed. I did not realize that an allignment would make the car feel the way it did but after seeing the before and after specs, the rear toe was way off on both sides... hence the steering in opposite direction I was turning.

In the end ... the car is like it was, handling wise. Thank goodness that was it and I did not have chase something else.

Thanks once again Primers! What an awesome community!
Click to expand...


Sometime you might want to try swapping out your wheels/tires with a stock set, back to back, really take the car for a ride and compare the two.

I think you'll be surprised...:wink:
 
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I've got the shorties and 4.23 in a 96....it runs...
 
Downside to putting 4.23 R&P in a 95-96 is you lose the torque reactive differential. From the Wiki Changes by Year page for '95:

"Limited Slip Differential Changes on manual transmission cars. Went from Torque Control Differential to a Torque Reactive Differential - when combined with Throttle-By-Wire, increases speeds out of a corner by 10%."
 
I recall reading in another thread that the 4.23 R&P is incompatible with the 95-96 differential and that the swap required going to the 91-94 differential. I also recall there are issues with the 95-96 EPS system and 4.23 gears. Of course I can't seem to find those threads at the moment...
 
the simplest way to do the swap is to let Larry B do it for you:wink:
 
Russ said:
I recall reading in another thread that the 4.23 R&P is incompatible with the 95-96 differential and that the swap required going to the 91-94 differential. I also recall there are issues with the 95-96 EPS system and 4.23 gears. Of course I can't seem to find those threads at the moment...
Click to expand...

Yes you do need the 1991-94 dif for the 4.23 gearset.

The 4.23 is not compatible with 1997+ EPS, 95-96 EPS is fine with the 4.23.
Ask DocJohn, he has it.

Also considering the dif preload is doubled when set correctly to NSX-R spec, I do not see it as too much of a "downside" vs. the Torque Sensing dif. It is really the cost having to buy a 1991-94 dif that is the downside;).

Regards,
LarryB
 
OP - Glad you figured out the problem. Question:

When you changed the gearing did you also change your wheels and or suspension at the same time or did you already have that setup prior to the gear change?

I take it the car was not aligned immediately after the change either.
 
stuntman said:
OP - Glad you figured out the problem. Question:

When you changed the gearing did you also change your wheels and or suspension at the same time or did you already have that setup prior to the gear change?

I take it the car was not aligned immediately after the change either.
Click to expand...

Billy,

To answer your question .... nothing changed suspension, wheels or otherwise. The only things I did change was that I got new rubber for the rear wheels and I installed the RPS Stage 2 Single Disc Clutch.

I think the new rear tires and the need for allignment was what made fell the way it did. You are correct in saying an alligment was NOT done immedialtly after the swap. Since the allignment all is good!
 

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