Self Defense?

H-carWizKid

H-carWizKid

Legendary Member
Joined
25 February 2001
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2,691
Location
Denver CO. USA
My Wife and I recently relocated to a new apartment in a new neighborhood here in Chicago. We now live in Rogers Park, as opposed to Ravenswood where we used to live. Our apartment is much nicer (bigger, and brand new since the building that has been completely gutted and refinished) but our neighborhood appears to be of a lower quality. You couldn't tell the difference from Ravenswood when we looked at our place, but that was a Sunday afternoon. Lately I have noticed more and more ominous looking kids hanging around the blocks in our vicinity- congregating on street corners, leaning into cars- ect ect ect. None of this really bothers me as I generally mind my own business and our block is pretty nice, but I have to walk through a "bad" section in order to get to my train station.

I hate to park on the street, especially since we just bought a new car, and I want to keep it nice. For this reason I found a nice garage owned by a couple who live close to my train station.

So last night at about 9pm I put the car in the new garage I rented, and started walking the 3-4 blocks back to our house. I have to walk past a pretty popular park where the kids play basketball, and hang out. I am walking along minding my own business when I came upon a group of teenagers walking ahead of me.
They are lumbering along, in a group of about 4 boys, and 3 girls ages 15 to maybe 17- the tallest one is about my height (6'1). As I came up behind them I stepped to my left and started to walk on past. and one of the shorter boys starts pacing me.

Where do you work? He asks

Downtown I say

How much is your paycheck? he asks

Not enough I say

Why don't you let me have a look through your wallet? He asks.

Not likely I say

lets have a look in your pockets he says

So I stopped replying, and he fell behind, but as I passed the last of the boys he turned and looked back at his friend and said "THAT MAN WAS ABOUT TO KICK YOUR ASS".

I continued my walk home uninhibited, but watching the shadows behind me as I went.

So here is the question-

I am tied to this lease for a year, and I am uncomfortable with having my (pregnant) wife walking around in a neighborhood where this kind of thing can happen. Fortunately she is only walking about during the daylight hours, and "activity" is not really noticable during the day.

What would you do?

So far I have thought about buying a taser, or carrying a knife (I have several)

I can handle myself pretty well 1 on 1, but in this scenario there were 4 of them. Had I been attacked, it is likely it would have been by more than one of them.

I have lived in Chicago for nearly 2 years now, and never personally had a problem, but I did have a coworker who was mugged and left in a coma for a month. Matt was attacked in one of the "better" neighborhoods- so it could happen anywhere.

To be honest- these thoughts have never crossed my mind before, so I was wonding if anyone here could provide some feedback.

BTW- in the future I will be sure NOT to reply to any questions should this scenario play out again.

Philip
 
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that sucks about the appartment being in that kind of an area, but you know what they say, "dont bring a knife to a gun fight" if you are content with staying int he appartment i would prepare for the worst if i were you, prepare for the worst and if you ever have to use the gun then GTFO of that neighborhood ASAP so theres no "reprocusions"



if i were you i would try to find some legal advice, find somebody who you can give the contract to and a thousand bucks to go over it with a fine tooth comb and tell them your cituation, there is no way i could live there, putting yourself in tha enviroment is just asking for trouble, but if you cant get out, get a gun
 
If you are goign to carry a weapon, I suggest a non-lethal and lethal combination. A collapsible straight baton (ASP 21' airweight) should ward off most people merely by snapping it out and opening it. BUT, if you escalate to that level, be prepared to escalate again... carry a pistol as well. Didn't Chicago just get knocked down on their anti hand gun law?

If you can't or won't carry a pistol, and just want to put on a show of force, get a stun gun. Keep it in your pocket, pull it out when necessary, and the click-click of the voltage will scare off most... but be aware, if they live in your neighborhood, it is only a matter of time before they gather numbers or call your bluff.

Here's another option if they live in the area... look for them during the daytime. Engage in conversation. If you become a familiar face, they will probably lay off.

Me personally, I'd still go with the ASP and pistol... but I work for the gov and get paid to do it!!!
 
At this point, it appears this has become enough of an issue for you to consider moving. I would take a closer look at the lease agreement and consider subleasing or assigning the lease if possible. In the case both are prohibited by the lease terms, take a closer look at the cost for breaking the lease. If reasonable, pay the fee and move on.

The way I see it, if you truely feel your wife is endangered, there's really no other option other than moving. Good luck....and sorry to hear about this misfortune.
 
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Forget the knife, it'll only get you shot. Check your local laws ASAP. Here in TX. you can conceal a hand gun while on your premises walking to your car. Laws vary from state to state though. I do have my concealed license though. Without a doubt, after that incident your wife should not take walks alone. Good luck.
 
exNSXer said:
At this point, it appears this has become enough of an issue for you to consider moving. I would take a closer look at the lease agreement and consider subleasing or assigning the lease if possible. In the case both are prohibited by the lease terms, take a closer look at the cost for breaking the lease. If reasonable, pay the fee and move on.

The way I see it, if you truely feel your wife is endangered, there's really no other option other than moving. Good luck....and sorry to hear about this misfortune.
Click to expand...

+1

when safety is a concern like this, it's time to move on.
 
i was just thinking about it and you should report that incodent to the police, if nothing else it will be on record just incase something more does happen, you may even be able to get them to send a patrol car around there every once in a while, report thier suspicious activitys aswell
 
Thanks guys- Money is actually a bit of a concern. My wife has taken a step back in her career due to the fact that we are expecting so we are running a lot tighter. The cost of another move so soon is not in our budget (we just moved in last month), but if this keeps up I may have to look into securing finances to make it happen.

I am not really excited about the idea of buying a gun. To be honest, I am not sure that I have the will to use it, and in that case a firearm would be more of a liability than a preventative asset. Non lethal I don't have as much of an issue with personally, so a stun gun may be in the cards.

the part of the neighborhood where our apartment is located is actually pretty nice- it is amazing how much the neighborhood varies in just a few blocks. the demographics seem to be very different from street to street.

I am really starting to regret not buying the house in the suburbs we were thinking about. It just didn't seem logical to buy a place when we are thinking of moving out of state in the next few years. We know we don't intend to stay in Chicago permanently. To be honest I want to get back to TX as soon as my career allows it. The city doesn't seem like a great place to raise a family.


P
 
Call the police and report the incident, get a stun gun, and maybe see if you can circumvent the area, even if it takes an extra 5 or 10 minutes walking...

god luck and stay safe... and I applaud you for being honest enough to say you might not be able to use a gun... for the people that can't, they shouldn't carry. good for you.
 
You have a few good options already suggested by other members, but how about next time slowing down a little and crossing the street. If that doesn't work you can always try to look like a crazy person by twitching and talking to yourself. :wink: Maybe even wear some different colored sneakers and a screwed up wardrobe home on the train.
 
rdeathsentence_250_02.jpg


knnhueu.jpg




gangsters causing trouble, call kevin bacon

pics from movie :death sentance
 
Do not underestimate the potency of a knife. Within 21' see who can withdraw their weapon and take an effective strike first. I'd put my money on a knife. There have been many debates regarding gun vs. knife and in many CQC (close quarters combat) situations a knife has a very distinct advantage.

However, the problem with a knife, as with a gun, is that once you are determined to use it, it immediately escalates into a life or death situation. Some people aren't prepared to escalate the situation so quickly. I agree that it is probably good to have a non-lethal weapon as well. The ones I like are ones that dual purpose and inconspicuous because you can just walk with them in hand and not alert people. Sure you can walk with a baton or bat, but 1) some law enforcement officers may not sympathize with your situation and consider YOU the threat and 2) you tip off potential muggers that they should come prepared with greater force (i.e. gun etc.) Some examples that I like are things like the 6-C cell Maglite flashlight or tactical flashlight with serrated edges. Another is this pen kubotan. If you learn how to use one effectively, it is a VERY powerful non-lethal weapon and no one would ever think twice with you walking down the street with a pen in your hand. A stun gun, tazer and pepper spray are also very good defensive weapons. Remember, the lethality isn’t the most important aspect, it’s the one that will buy you the most time, because…

the MOST important thing is avoidance, both pre-emptive and re-active. It doesn’t matter what weapon you carry if you are out numbered, out classed (weapon-wise), or caught off guard. Pre-emptively: If there are a group of people, walk to the other side of the street. Walk in well populated, well-lit areas even if you have to walk further. Walk with friends or buddies. Get a pit bull or Rottweiler and train them well. Re-actively: Always look to run. Always carry a separate stash of money in one of your pockets (preferably lots of ones) and if someone tries to rob you, throw it down at their feet and then run the other way. Chances are, they will be more pre-occupied in picking up the cash than wanting to chase you. Always look for an exit plan and always have footwear you feel you can run quickly in. Always look to flee the situation.
 
I do not recommend carrying a knife unless you are prepared to be stabbed or shot. "Who brings a knife to a gun fight?" was one of my favorite lines working plain clothes in a large metropolitan PD when someone would try to rob me while I pulled my 1911 .45 ACP on them. I hate knives BTW.

I also believe that unless one was in the military, a police department or studied some form of self defense, it is unlikely they will be able to deal effectively with a high level threat situation. Many people carry guns for protection, few are prepared to actually use them properly. By that I mean two to the chest and preferably one in the head. Cops train to stop the threat-that is how we trained to stop the threat.

I recommend being smarter than the jerks on the street and always knowing it is going to happen and knowing in advance what you are going to do when it happens. Run the different scenarios through your mind and work out your response. That is how cops train and it worked quite well for me. That way when it happens (hopefully it never will) you will be ready to respond immediately. Fight or flight. Being prepared is the best defense against jerks who think they are tough. Interestingly enough, one on one they are always cry babies as they are getting their butts whipped.

Given that neighborhoods rarely to seem to turn for the better, you might seriously consider how to get out of your lease and move to a safer environment for your wife and baby and chalk this up to a poorly researched decision. Just my humble opinion for you to chew on.
 
orbusrex said:
Call the police and report the incident, get a stun gun, and maybe see if you can circumvent the area, even if it takes an extra 5 or 10 minutes walking...

god luck and stay safe... and I applaud you for being honest enough to say you might not be able to use a gun... for the people that can't, they shouldn't carry. good for you.
Click to expand...

Many thanks for all the advice above- I appreciate all the input, and am already exploring the options to remove ourselves from this situation. Unfortunately there is an opportunity for this sort of thing anywhere in the city. My friend from work was brutally mugged in Lincoln Park and left in a coma for a month- Lincoln Park is mostly populated by young professionals, so it was that much more shocking that it happened there.

In the meantime I have been researching "street smarts" and it appears the best advice given in several instances above is avoidance. I have an option to walk a little out of my way and avoid the more seedy block where this happened, so I am going to alter my route to and from the train/car. I will also cross the street next time the scenario I was faced with last night occurs. It helps not to make yourself a target.

I carried my flip open lock blade that i usually keep in the car on my route home tonight. It helped me feel a little better, but in the end if faced with handing over my wallet, or getting into an altercation I would hand over my wallet. The only way i am drawing any weapon is if the threat is imminent enough for me to actually use it.

I won't carry a gun. I am a huge supporter of gun rights, and absolutely advocate for anyone who chooses to legally carry a firearm, but I know that
a. I am a lousy shot- so shoot to wound isn't an option- i would just be shooting to hit something.
b. I would second guess the appropriateness of action until it was too late, and then the gun could become a liability.
Like so many things- I support the right to make a choice, I just choose not to exercise that right. Hopefully it won't be a choice I regret.

Thanks again all of you. I will do my best to do the right thing.

P
 
My friend just picked this up.

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezstore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1620

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eB6mGsGYZdM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eB6mGsGYZdM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
Kinda +1 to what vegas N$X said. When in the hands of someone well trained a knife *can* (that's the keyword) be a far superior weapon in CQC. GOOD training in a combative form is key to this and most martial arts do not meet the standard. The bastardized BJJ the army is teaching to recruits is most definitely more effective than anything a common street punk will have knowledge of, but Krav Maga is in a league of it's own. It's relatively simple and not emphatic upon precise movements everytime, the emphasis is very clearly on what works best to neutralize the threat.
Check for your nearest center here: http://www.kravmaga.com/schoollocations.asp

I can't in good faith recommend anyone carry a weapon of any sort without proper training.
 
I would look into some pepper spray they cant stab, shoot, or kick your A$$ if they cant see.:wink: Hose them down and run.
 
Just wanted to say excellent discussion here. I do pray that things go well for the fellow NSX member here. One of the things that I've found in my personal journey that helps is just taking step by step.

One may not be comfortable with a gun, knife etc.. but by conditioning, practice and training, you can become more comfortable.

I'm going to look into krav maga! There's a training center near here..

PS: If you want the best of the best training, you can always go here : ) http://www.critraining.com/
 
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eNeSeX 95T said:
My friend just picked this up.

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezstore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1620

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eB6mGsGYZdM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eB6mGsGYZdM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Click to expand...
So exacly how many shots is it good for? Thats not a bad idea.
 
No offense to anyone here but forget all the macho bullshit.

If you have a knife, someone will have a gun. If you have a gun, the group of kids that tries to jump you will have two guns.

You said that money is an issue an I can respect that. But where or how is money better spent than on your safety and I hate to be a chauvinist but the safety of your pregnant wife.

Life is far too short and precious to even worry one second about bullshit like this. Eat the cost, move on and sleep better at night.
 
Until you come up with a solution, might I suggest you carry your wallet in a hidden area and a dummy on your hip. If you ever have to hand it over, no big loss. The last thing you need to deal with is replacing your ID, credit cards, and protecting your identity.
 
H-carWizKid said:
In the meantime I have been researching "street smarts" and it appears the best advice given in several instances above is avoidance. I have an option to walk a little out of my way and avoid the more seedy block where this happened, so I am going to alter my route to and from the train/car. I will also cross the street next time the scenario I was faced with last night occurs. It helps not to make yourself a target.
Click to expand...


That is the best solution.

Wether you have pepper spray, a tazer, a knife or a gun, if you win the first fight, you had better be prepared for retaliation, you would never be able to walk down that street again.
 
I lived in Chicago for 5 years and still love that place but I know what you mean by neighbourhoods changing from street to street. Rogers Park is sort of a "transition zone" where a few types of economic classes mix (or collide). I can't believe your friend got mugged in Lincoln Park! I lived at Clark and Armitage and always felt pretty safe at night. Wow.

I agree with DaHapa. I would say the best defense is to avoid getting into such situations: walk elsewhere, take a long more convoluted path home, crossing the road if you see a group..don't forget there's boldness in numbers when kids are with peers and trying to impress one another. I wouldn't try and be their friends or even talk to them, just mind your own business and keep walking! I only had one similar situation when I lived in Chicago. One night I was walking on Rush at Chicago late at night (was returning a video to Blockbusters) and saw someone looking kinda suspicious coming towards me. I crossed the road, and kept walking, faster. I saw the shadows and can tell he's hustling to catch up to me, so I had my keys in my pocket ready just in case. He caught up and started asking for money, which I ignored. After 3-4 more steps he grabbed my shoulder and I spun around and instinctively pushed him away. The palm of my hand with the keys made contact with his cheek and he bent over with blood on his face and I ran like a mofo back to my apartment! I think I was lucky and adrenaline saved the day but it shook me up for the rest of the night.

Be careful!
 

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