Secret Tire Revealed!

[Jett]

Well, the NSX managed to catch me by surprise by chewing the rear tires off, even though I thought I had been watching the tires like a hawk. The tires were at two years and 29,000 miles. I knew that they would need replacing soon, but it was looking like I would get 30,000 miles out of them. Then the other night I had a flat and discovered that the rears were wearing through the tread on the extreme inside edge, out of sight. Of course the other one was also on the verge of failure. I certainly can't complain about the mileage,
I am just disappointed that I didn't catch it sooner. In the future I am going to check the tires by reaching inside the wheel wells and feeling the inside edge of the tires, instead of just a visual inspection.

I had been running a mixed set of tires on the NSX, Dunlop SP Sport FM901s on the rear and Michelin Pilot SX MXX3s on the front. I had the fronts cross-mounted at about 15,000 miles, which really increased their lifespan. Tire sizes were stock both rear and front. All tires were installed in new condition on the same day. Alignment was performed to stock 1994 specs at the same time. The Dunlops had horrible reviews, but they came new on a set of used OEM wheels that I purchased for the NSX, so I decided to try them. I couldn't find a matching Dunlop FM901 in an appropriate front size at the time so I ended up going with the now-discontinued Michelins on the front. The Michelins were somewhat softer than the Dunlops, with a wear rating of 140 versus 220 on the Dunlops. This combination held up great by making it almost to 30,000 miles. Throughout their life this set did great, handling was perfectly normal, no surprises or nothing unusual. The Michelins were the best, absolutely no complaints. The Dunlops were also great except for excessive road noise. All four tires managed to wear out at approximately the same time.

I don't track my car and rarely drive above 85 mph, but I do drive the car in the rain occasionally as I sometimes use it on my 140-mile roundtrip commute. I even get caught out in the snow every so often. My daughter turns 16 this year and I intend to give her my Mustang, so I will probably be putting more miles on the NSX after that, for at least awhile. So my priority is a long-lasting performance tire that does well in the rain, is relatively quiet, and isn't too expensive since the tires will probably need to be replaced in less than two years.

Now for the part that is sure to be controversial: I am very seriously thinking about replacing the existing tires with a set of Nexen N3000 tires. Here is a link to the english version of the Nexen website. Dig the groovy translatation of the tire description under "Specification".

http://www.nexentire.co.kr/english/product_tec/sub2.asp?idx=73&name=N3000&expend=1

As is evident from their website, Nexen N3000s are W speed-rated with a wear rating of 340AA, and are available in near-stock (1994 and later) sizes for both the front and rear. I am considering 25540WR17 for the rear and 22545WR16 for the front. Searching around the internet I have not been able to find longer-term reviews on these tires since they are so new to the US market. The only mentions I can find from actual owners are from people who have purchased them relatively recently, with no long-term reviews to offer. I can find only one short-term review. Nonetheless, I have arranged with a local installer to have a set of tires drop-shipped to them this week. So it looks like I will probably go with the Nexen N3000.

The best source, at least on the east coast, for these tires, appears to be East Coast Tires in Asheboro, North Carolina. (They might be a good source for other tires as well.)

http://www.eastcoasttires.com/

I calculated the total cost of four tires in the sizes I am considering. $315. Shipping included. That would be a stone bargain if the tires are any good. If I looked around I could probably find an installer for $85 or less. $400 for four tires, mounted, balanced, installed. I am tempted to pull the trigger on these.

Here is a link to an Acura TL-related website where one of the TL owners is running a set of the N3000s and offers up a mini-review of sorts.

http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135535&page=7&pp=25

I particularly like this comment: "To me, the tires have NO perceivable wear after these 8,500 miles. Contrary to the naysayers seven months ago, my tires have yet to blow-up, explode, have any uneven wear, cause aliens to appear, etc."

Have some of our guys been over there on the TL forum?

Let the flames begin!

 

[Diablo360]

The tires are probably one of the most important things on your car. Something to think about...........................

 

[EIFFEL]

It's your car, If you want the lower quality tires with lower purchase price. Go ahead and do it. Don't worry about what others think. It's your money and car. OTOH. I would only put the best tires on my cars. I like the best things in life. period.

 

[KooLaid]

My god that is INSANE mileage you're getting! 30,000 miles!??!?! I'm lucky if I can pull 10,000 out of my rears and I have almost pefect wear!

To be honest.... I really doubt you have ANY reason to go cheap on your tires. Especially if you're getting that type of wear out of good performance tires.

 

[Jett]

Well, I gone and done it. I ordered four Nexen N3000s, to be delivered to the installer this week. I will post honest comments in a few weeks as to what my initial impressions are, and I will post an honest review when the tires wear out.

 

[nsxtasy]

The Nexen tires are CRAP.

Even when you're willing to degrade your car's performance to save a few bucks on tires, you would have been MUCH better off with the Kumho SPT, a popular "budget performance tire" which gives much better performance than the Nexen tires in every possible way. And you can get a set of the SPT for 16"/17" wheels in 205/45-16 and 245/40-17 for $326 from the Tire Rack. So the difference in price for the set, assuming $50 for shipping, is only around $60 between a set that's garbage and a set that's pretty darn good for the money.

 

[Jett]

"The Nexen tires are CRAP."

You said the same thing about the Dunlop FM901s, a tire you have never owned. I got 29,000 miles off those with no problems whatsoever (other than that they were loud) until they wore out. How do you know that the Nexen N3000s are crap? Ever owned a set? Didn't think so. For that matter, have you ever run a set of Kumho SPTs, the very tire you are recommending now? I doubt it. You have demonstrated that you are unqualified to render an opinion here. Sorry, but to make such a strong statement without any information backing it up I would expect you to have some actual experience with the tires in question.

 

[nsxtasy]

"The Nexen tires are CRAP."

You said the same thing about the Dunlop FM901s, a tire you have never owned. I got 29,000 miles off those with no problems whatsoever (other than that they were loud) until they wore out. How do you know that the Nexen N3000s are crap? Ever owned a set? Didn't think so. For that matter, have you ever run a set of Kumho SPTs, the very tire you are recommending now? I doubt it. You have demonstrated that you are unqualified to render an opinion here.

Yeah, right...

You have a history here of repeatedly flaming people - me in particular - after they spent a lot of time giving you excellent, accurate, knowledgeable advice. Based on that history, I can only imagine what kind of person you are.

Enjoy your crappy tires. It's obvious that you'll never understand the difference anyway.

 

[EIFFEL]

Yeah, right...

Enjoy your crappy tires.

But they last long long time! Fwiw, I have never owned a YUGO, but I have been told they are junk. :biggrin:

 

[Jett]

Who is the flamer here? I didn't, for example, come in and say Goodyear F1 GS-D3s are crap, in large part because I have never owned them. I simply stated my intentions, and you started with the flaming, based on a tire you have NEVER OWNED and KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

I have a history? You are the NSXPrime resident Troll! You have over 21,000 posts on here! No one has more history than you do!

For all the trash talk, you still didn't answer the questions. Ever owned either the Nexens or the SPTs that you are recommending? Didn't think so! So then what part of your advice is either excellent (no actual experience), accurate (you sure were wrong about the FM901s), or knowledgable (recommend something you have never owned)? Excellent, accurate, knowledgable advice would consist of, for example, links of objective reviews of the tire in question, or since that seems to be in short supply in this case, maybe some actual knowledge of the subject, rather than a negative statement with no facts, data, or experience to back it up.

 

[DocL]

I was in the low cost tire boat for a few years until three weeks ago. It wasn't about the cost for why I bought Kumho 712's, but more about the level of performance that I needed for the roads in Florida. Now that I've put a few miles on the Goodyear FI's I can never go back to a budget tire.

You are making an unwise decision by purchasing these tires. The only thing between you and the road is less than four square feet of a contact patch. But hey, it's your wallet and your car. Do as you please, just don't blame anyone else besides yourself if the car goes off the road and into a ditch.

 

[nsxtasy]

Who is the flamer here?

You are. You are the one who started with the personal insults, with no provocation, just like you always do. Don't believe it? Re-read post #7 above.

I have a history?

Yes, you do. You have started flame wars before, with the exact same pattern: You asked a question, you got a complete and accurate answer, and you started insulting the person who gave you the advice. Nice guy, you are. Is this how you act in other aspects of your professional and personal life?

You are the NSXPrime resident Troll! You have over 21,000 posts on here! No one has more history than you do!

You are as ignorant about the internet as you do about tires. The internet term "troll" refers to someone who only posts in order to start flame wars, and who doesn't provide any constructive information. Like... YOU! The term "troll" does not refer to anyone who provides lots of accurate information and knowledge and helps other people. However, it's clear that the entire concept of helping people is beyond your ability to comprehend.

you still didn't answer the questions. Ever owned either the Nexens or the SPTs that you are recommending?

I've driven on both tires. I drove on the Nexens and concluded that they are CRAP. They are simply an undistinguished tire, the kind you might find on a subcompact at a rental car agency that doesn't spend a lot of money on maintaining their cars (which, come to think of it, is how I got to try them). I would never buy them after driving on them.

I also drove on the Kumho SPT, and I also instructed a student driving on the SPT at Road America (in dry sessions and in the rain) and was very favorably impressed. Have I owned them? Not yet. But based on my experience, they will be the next tire I will purchase for our family car when our current Yokohama ES100 tires wear out.

 

[Jett]

Am I missing something here? Just because I am critical of your opinion doesn't mean that I am critical of you personally. Post # 7 contains no provocations or personal insults. I narrowly tailored my comments to just tires or opinions you have expressed with regards to them. There are no personal insults whatsoever. Telling you you are unqualified to render an opinion isn't a personal insult, it is an assertion based on you not demonstrating any knowledge of or experience with the tires in question. (When pressed, much later, you finally offer up a couple of anecdotes about track day and a rent-a car. That's a little thin, particularly so late in the discussion, but whatever.)

Personal insults would be me saying something like "I can only imagine what kind of person you are." Or "Enjoy your crappy tires, it's obvious that you'll never understand the difference anyway." Or "You are as ignorant about the internet as you are about tires." Or "Nice guy, you are. Is this how you act in other aspects of your personal and professional life?" Now those jewels are really illuminating the topic, aren't they?

Can you see the distinction here? My comments are limited to the tires or opinions with regard to the tires. I am critical of your opinions in this instance but I am not personally attacking YOU. Your comments, on the other hand, are very personal and derogatory, and certainly meet the wikipedia definition of a troll being someone who is "posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting...with the intent of provoking a reaction from others." So I am sticking by my assertion that you are a troll. You shouldn't need me to point that out - your words speak for themselves. Not intended to be a personal insult, just a statement of fact. You meet the definition.

I took great pains to be as forthcoming and informative in the original post as possible. I spent several hours over several weeks researching the particular tire in question, and eventually posted several links to the best sources I could find either for information or for tires themselves. (Even if buyers don't choose the same tires, east coast tires looks like a great tire source.) Having done that, I still didn't recommend that anyone else should do what I was contemplating. I merely presented the topic as an idea and would hope that anyone considering a similar purchase would be as diligent in going about it as I have been. Having gone through with the purchase, I will be forthcoming about whether it works out or not. If anyone else should contemplate the same path, I have tried to provide absolutely as much information as is possible in order to help that person with their decision, and will continue to do so in the future. Finally, even with the effort I put into it, I knew that the post would STILL be controversial, as most people seem more content to just follow the crowd. So I expected the post to generate some negative comments. No big deal. I can handle the negative comments directed at the tires. The personal insults still sting a little though:wink:, but I will get over it. Peace:smile:

 

[slashmatt]

Am I missing something here? Just because I am critical of your opinion doesn't mean that I am critical of you personally. Post # 7 contains no provocations or personal insults. I narrowly tailored my comments to just tires or opinions you have expressed with regards to them. There are no personal insults whatsoever. Telling you you are unqualified to render an opinion isn't a personal insult, it is an assertion based on you not demonstrating any knowledge of or experience with the tires in question. (When pressed, much later, you finally offer up a couple of anecdotes about track day and a rent-a car. That's a little thin, particularly so late in the discussion, but whatever.)

Personal insults would be me saying something like "I can only imagine what kind of person you are." Or "Enjoy your crappy tires, it's obvious that you'll never understand the difference anyway." Or "You are as ignorant about the internet as you are about tires." Or "Nice guy, you are. Is this how you act in other aspects of your personal and professional life?" Now those jewels are really illuminating the topic, aren't they?

Can you see the distinction here? My comments are limited to the tires or opinions with regard to the tires. I am critical of your opinions in this instance but I am not personally attacking YOU. Your comments, on the other hand, are very personal and derogatory, and certainly meet the wikipedia definition of a troll being someone who is "posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting...with the intent of provoking a reaction from others." So I am sticking by my assertion that you are a troll. You shouldn't need me to point that out - your words speak for themselves. Not intended to be a personal insult, just a statement of fact. You meet the definition.

I took great pains to be as forthcoming and informative in the original post as possible. I spent several hours over several weeks researching the particular tire in question, and eventually posted several links to the best sources I could find either for information or for tires themselves. (Even if buyers don't choose the same tires, east coast tires looks like a great tire source.) Having done that, I still didn't recommend that anyone else should do what I was contemplating. I merely presented the topic as an idea and would hope that anyone considering a similar purchase would be as diligent in going about it as I have been. Having gone through with the purchase, I will be forthcoming about whether it works out or not. If anyone else should contemplate the same path, I have tried to provide absolutely as much information as is possible in order to help that person with their decision, and will continue to do so in the future. Finally, even with the effort I put into it, I knew that the post would STILL be controversial, as most people seem more content to just follow the crowd. So I expected the post to generate some negative comments. No big deal. I can handle the negative comments directed at the tires. The personal insults still sting a little though:wink:, but I will get over it. Peace:smile:

Even though you drive an automatic, I'm going to have to stick with you on this one. Averaging over 8 posts a day each day for 7 years is just sick.

 

[Jett]

Thank you for the words of support. But I can't believe that you drive a stick! Don't you understand that there is room for only one opinion on this topic! My opinion! (just kidding)...:smile:

 

[nsxtasy]

Averaging over 8 posts a day each day for 7 years is just sick.

What is "sick" is being too ignorant to realize that about 90 percent of those posts contain accurate information that has helped many, many people on this forum (in addition to many others who have been helped in private messages). Of course, you and Jett think that this forum is just here for flaming people, and not for helping anyone, since that's what most of YOUR posts do.

 

[RPM217]

You get what you pay for, this whole ridiculous argument reminds me when I used to ride a motorbike, and I asked which helmut should I get, the salesman said if I wanted a cheap helmut, my risk, and said that the better helmuts had better protection, and a $50 helmut would protect a $50 head (this goes back 30 years ago). So I say, you want cheap tires, don't expect great handling, a few dollars more, well spent. I guess in the air traffic control tower, you'd feel real comfortable knowing that the jumbo jet about to land in front of you is riding on budget tires.................Stop attacking people who try to help you with good sound advice, if you don't chose to follow it, just do what you want. Ken has been a solid contributor to this site, and community for many years and thousands of posts. I started a thread months ago asking what the F--K was going on, and this is exactly the type of infantile behavior I was referring to. Treat eachother with respect, as if the person was sitting across the dinner table from you, with your parents in attendance, and I doubt that this type of behavior would continue. Time for a group hug!

 

[ediddynsx]

You get what you pay for......if you are not going for performance then you made the right decision.

 

[pvmike]

Perhaps nsxtacy's comments were a bit harsh, but he's offering good advice. I wouldn't feel safe driving on those, especially in the rain.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I'm not taking sides on either Jett or Ken Sax... However, here's my opinion, seems like, with the experiences driving and owning an nsx, Ken will NEVER EVER let anyone try any equipment that will not peform better than a stock nsx...

I remembered year(s?) ago, I also attacked Jett's comment on mixing tires, I remembered I said, the FM901 is not even satisfying on my 95 honda accord Automatic... so don't put it on the nsx.... blah blah...

Seems like Jett never listened, and procceed to do what he wants to do... at the end of the day, it's his car and his life, I could careless if he ends up in a ditch due to the poor handling of the car... Now, 20000 miles later, Jett proved that not only he didn't wreck his car, he even did challenge some of the worst weather a nsx could face (snow with crappy summer tires.) What all this tell me? 2 possibilities: 1. Jett is an exceptional driver , 2. Jett will not ever push his nsx's performance envelope, he's a safe and responsible driver!! (which IMO, wasting an nsx, by my book )

I would probably never understand the intention of Jett's choice of tires, until, now that I owned a stock 92 miata with stock all season tires. I enjoyed the handling limit within the-not-so ridiculous speed. (I'd haul ass at 60 mph, while, I could attack the same corner at 95 mph with RA1 on the nsx.....) I had FUN in that "pos" without risking my life and others.(when compared to the nsx, of course.)

I do feel that nsxtacy is responding as he felt like Jett was sending some false information here by telling people it's ok to cross match different tires, allegelly worst than stock tires. That's very dangerous for an avg. nsx owner.

 

[egprelude]

"The Nexen tires are CRAP."

You said the same thing about the Dunlop FM901s, a tire you have never owned. I got 29,000 miles off those with no problems whatsoever (other than that they were loud)

Since you say refer to a "good" tire as having given you 29,000 miles, THEN maybe the Nexen's are for you. It seems you think a "good" tire is one that LASTS the LONGEST. I personally had these put on a CLK once and they were LOUD compared to the bald goodyears that were on there before.

If you wanted an affordable and great tread life tire, you could look into some of the more smaller branded names (i.e. WANLI).


This is really dangerous as alot of people have pointed out. Many people who have never experienced an accident as a result of tire failure lots of time think, its only a tire and I'm not racing it. Well the tire is the ONLY thing touching the road. When your tires goes, where does your car go?

 

[NSXT]

Every tire has tradeoffs. Jett knows how he drives and in what conditions, and therefore he is in the best position to decide what tradeoffs to make when choosing his own tires. Unless these tires have a history of unusually high failure rate, blowouts are not a concern either.

That Jett spent a while doing his own research and found a tire which he believes will be good for him should be commended. This is a far better approach than being a sheep and ending up with something which does not meet his requirements.

 

[Litespeeds]

It is a shame that one would sacrifice performance for longevity. Like Jett posted, he is looking for something that will last a long time and is cheap. He doesn't care about the road noise or decreased handling and braking that cheaper tires will give him. Well, I think he found the perfect tire to meet his criteria. Maybe he should look into a cheap commuter car to go along with those tires. :wink:

The NSX is a true sports car and tires are one of the most important items that will contribute to its great handling and braking performance. That is why you bought an NSX in the first place right? Unfortunately some NSX owners are just too "thrifty", I didn't want to say cheap :tongue: , to spend money on good quality tires. In this case, they will never truely know what their car is capable of. But then again, he doesn't track his car nor drive faster than 85 and does drive in the rain and sometimes snow. Good for you. At least your car is not a garage queen.

Tell me again. WHY DID YOU BUY AN NSX?

 

[EIFFEL]

Tell me again. WHY DID YOU BUY AN NSX?

A lot of NSX's are owned by poseurs who do not utilize the full performance of the vehicle. They may buy it so they look good in, some even have a lot of $$$ in mods and never take it to the track (The most obvious is the selection of their tires. Usually low grade) A lot of NSX's has all sorts of Type R mods to impress their neighbors,friends, and some will even buy an automatic for this reason. Nothing wrong with it, it is just different strokes for different folks. Hey, I bought my Ducati 999 for the same reason.:redface:

 

[Jett]

Wow, tires sure are to be an emotional topic around here. Rarely have I witnessed so much hysteria. So many emotional responses. Did some of the people who responded actually read what was written? Please calm down and think rationally instead of emotionally.

First, to address the emotional response from EIFFEL. Your post is nothing but a personal attack. (Note to self: Add "poser" to the list of personal insults.) You don't say anything specific about the tires in question. Was all this really necessary? Do you feel better now?

I really don't entirely understand the poser comments. Posing as what? An NSX owner? (If I had known I wasn't an NSX owner I would have registered on another website, hopefully one where you could rationally discuss something without being denigrated for not following the herd.) A "true sports car" owner? The one response states that the NSX is a true sports car, then the next guy says that some people "will even buy an automatic" to apparently "pose" as... a true sports car owner? This may come as a shock to the system, but I like the automatic. A lot. I bought it specifically because it was an automatic. If that makes it a "fake sports car", I don't have a problem with that. I drive a fake sports car. And I like it that way. In fact, I may be one of the few non-posers around here. I bought a car I liked and wanted, and I drive it. And I don't buy racing tires and NSX-R accessories for a car that sits in the garage. So I am keeping it real...

Litespeeds: I really don't appreciate the ridicule, plus there are numerous incorrect statements. I AM interested in long tire life, because I drive my car a lot. I am not necessarily looking for a tire that is cheap. It is just that the tires that I have to choose from have this inverted quality of being more expensive for the shorter life span tires and less expensive for the longer life span tires. If the longer-lasting ones were more expensive I would pay up. Having said that, I absolutely, positively don't see paying less for a longer-lasting tire as being a bad thing, provided that the tire performs well (not necessarily best-in-category) in other areas. I also indicate that I am interested in less road noise. In fact, I would install the FM901s again in a heartbeat if it weren't for the road noise.

NSXT: Thanks for a rational response. Seems to be a levelheaded person who is open-minded. He may not choose to do as I do, and that is okay. Someone who understands that the sky is not going to fall if I install different tires from him, and who is able to distinguish a sensational claim ("You could end up dead in a ditch!") from a rational one.

egprelude: We only differ on one point. Nowhere did I ever say that tire longevity is the only consideration for a "good" tire. The FM901s you had were loud? I agree. In fact, I even said so. You also state "If you wanted an affordable and great tread life tire, you could look into some of the more smaller branded names (i.e. WANLI)." I did that, so you should be complimenting me. The brand is called NEXEN. You should be happy!

RPM217: I can list numerous personal insults against me in just this one thread, yet I end up getting a mild lecture on attacking people? Seems like a double standard. I rarely criticize the individual, just bad ideas, or opinions which are presented as fact, or platitudes that are meant to prejudice (You get what you pay for, you could end up in a ditch, you are degrading the performance of your car, etc.).

I will try and get to the rest of you later...