ScienceofSpeed

[Coz]

Re: traveling to tempe to pick up my NSX

Chris,

I probably shouldn't do this here, but since you asked....

Sooner or later we'll see each other again face to face and then I'll once again explain it to you now that I know what was done, what was wasted in parts & money wise (my money), and not done correctly. I voiced plenty at your shop and e-mails back and forth to you. Maybe I wasn't clear enough or it just wasn't what you wanted to hear. The bottom line, I paid you a lot of money for a band aid fix, missed things, things done wrong and things that should have been finished but weren't. All of which could have easily cost me a motor. If I wanted your help again, I would have asked. No thanks, once was enough.

I learned a lot working side by side, (not standing at the door) at Autowave for the full week, 8 hours a day, when I was there with my NSX. That time was spent undoing what your shop did, finding things your shop should have and didn't, and fixing things correctly that your shop didn't do correctly in the many hours you spent labor wise on this issue. In fact, everything your shop did was a waste of time and money and was all removed. Hell, I can't even resell the bullshit parts you sold me for 1/2 the cost I paid you for them. What you did with a SC'd motor was not only rediculious, but dangerious. You knew full well it was never going to work before you even started, and then only telling me after you took my money that it would take another 4+ grand more to really fix it. Total bullshit and all you did was milk my wallet. I'm not as stupid as some of your customers that your used too. I have the documintation and receipts to prove it. Shall I post them for everyone to see ?

Then there's the continued and ongoing time I spend with Shane Lopier, Ken Sampson, Bob Kenny, Dave Levy, Shad and many others learning the real tried and true facts about NSX's and what it takes to make them really run making real dependable power. These are the real guys I listen to now that really know what their doing by real world experience. Not by computers or fancy websites...I know nothing compared to these guys about NSX's, but I'm learning because they are willing to teach and I want to learn.

Chris, as I told you, I was born at night, just not last night. Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining....I was turning wrenches long before you were born. By your own admission to me, you have never turned a wrench. And that's ok...not everyone is a wrench turner, but at the same time, you can't bullshit us that have for very long. I'm not affraid of standing up to you or anyone else on this board or in person. I have nothing to hide and certainly nothing to be affraid of from you or anyone here. Online or in person.

I currently have over 70 grand tied up into 2 NSX's and dropping another $18,000.00 into motor set up that's being done & contributed too by a few on this board into my green NSX that will make 700+ rwhp if I want it too. It's not a money issue really, it's a quality of work issue and the brotherhood we share to many of us Chris. Something you just don't and probably will never understand. Other's may not agree with me, so what, this is my personal opinion (which is in fact shared by many) and I could care less what the others think. They are not picking up my tab or paying my bills. Many of us talk off this board Chris...you do know there is a life off this board that many of us share together about NSX's, right ?

No big deal, I'll leave it alone from now on comment wise. I've said enough. We'll just chalk it up to one big misunderstanding, you go your way and I'll go mine.

I'm opening my own shop in the next few months here in Arizona and we'll see what happens then.

Take care Chris.
Jim

Jim, I still don't know why you keep posting these derogatory posts. I'd be more than happy to help you with any questions, concerns, complaints, etc. about the work we did on your car. You've never voiced any problems to me for me to understand and hopefully help you.

take care,
-- Chris

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Re: traveling to tempe to pick up my NSX

hi Jim --

I'm very sorry that your experience wasn't up to your expectations. However, your account of the situation is so far off from how the work transpired on your car all I can do is recount the experience to provide our side of the story.

You brought your car to us for an inspection and with plans to install a number of parts unrelated to the Comptech Supercharger kit installed on your car. During inspection (which we did at no cost) I suggested to you to have the car dynoed and air fuel ratios checked to verify the running condition of the car since I found numerous items that were of questionable workmanship.

Most significant in my mind was the high boost pulley I noted on your car without any evidence of additional fuel system modifications to support the extreme increase in pressure and heat that this pulley generates.

Upon dynoing your car, we found the air fuel ratios to be in excess of 16:1 AFR which caused us to abort the dyno run. Our hunch and verification saved your car from engine damage if there was not already existing damage. It's as clear and simple as that.
My next recommendation to you was to replace the high boost pulley with the standard pulley provided in the manufacture's base kit, or increase fuel capacity to support the higher performance of the supercharger. You decided to install a factory sized pulley which I found for your AT NO COST by contacting our customer who recently modified his car. While running the car again, we found that the fuel system was not providing adequate delivery to the engine to supply even enough fuel for a standard Comptech setup. Per my recommendation, we changed your fuel filter, fuel injectors, and fuel pressure regulator which we did at discounted prices and even AT COST for the fuel pressure regulator since you made it very clear to us that doing this work and diagnosis for you was an extreme financial burden.

Upon testing the car again, we found that the running condition of the car was better but still resulted in highly fluctuating air fuel ratios from very rich to very borderline - even more so than on a standard kit which has some variance due to the somewhat basic fuel system provided by the factory. It was OUR recommendation to install stand alone engine management, fuel pump, and fuel injectors to have precise control over fuel delivery and ignition. You then made it very clear to us that this was too much of a financial burden to you and that you wanted us to get the car in the best condition possible for the lowest cost and that you would then consider bringing the car back for this work to be performed.

We later found out that you took the car to Autowave and had the same parts / service performed that we recommended. We had no hard feelings since I was glad to hear that the car was taken care of and in good hands.

Since then, I've found that you have indicated to many, including Autowave, that the condition of the supercharger was our doing which is clearly untrue. You brought us a mess which was did our best to adequately repair with your constant constraints about the repair being a financial burden to you. We did nothing to "cost you an engine" What we did do was our best to help you out Jim. We found a serious condition on your car, and then upon recommending a proper fix you elected to then take this advice to another company. We provided numerous discounts, parts at cost, stayed late, and even ate 2 of the dyno run costs during our diagnosis work.

I truly do not understand how a customer can be treated so well and result in your feeling toward us. I hope someday that we can have a meeting of the minds as we remain dedicated to our customer service and would like both you and your car to be happy.

I'd be happy to discuss this further with you via phone, e-mail, or face to face. Whichever way you feel most comfortable.

take care,
-- Chris

Chris,

I probably shouldn't do this here, but since you asked....

Sooner or later we'll see each other again face to face and then I'll once again explain it to you now that I know what was done, what was wasted in parts & money wise (my money), and not done correctly. I voiced plenty at your shop and e-mails back and forth to you. Maybe I wasn't clear enough or it just wasn't what you wanted to hear. The bottom line, I paid you a lot of money for a band aid fix, missed things, things done wrong and things that should have been finished but weren't. All of which could have easily cost me a motor. If I wanted your help again, I would have asked. No thanks, once was enough.

I learned a lot working side by side, (not standing at the door) at Autowave for the full week, 8 hours a day, when I was there with my NSX. That time was spent undoing what your shop did, finding things your shop should have and didn't, and fixing things correctly that your shop didn't do correctly in the many hours you spent labor wise on this issue. In fact, everything your shop did was a waste of time and money and was all removed. Hell, I can't even resell the bullshit parts you sold me for 1/2 the cost I paid you for them. What you did with a SC'd motor was not only rediculious, but dangerious. You knew full well it was never going to work before you even started, and then only telling me after you took my money that it would take another 4+ grand more to really fix it. Total bullshit and all you did was milk my wallet. I'm not as stupid as some of your customers that your used too. I have the documintation and receipts to prove it. Shall I post them for everyone to see ?

Then there's the continued and ongoing time I spend with Shane Lopier, Ken Sampson, Bob Kenny, Dave Levy, Shad and many others learning the real tried and true facts about NSX's and what it takes to make them really run making real dependable power. These are the real guys I listen to now that really know what their doing by real world experience. Not by computers or fancy websites...I know nothing compared to these guys about NSX's, but I'm learning because they are willing to teach and I want to learn.

Chris, as I told you, I was born at night, just not last night. Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining....I was turning wrenches long before you were born. By your own admission to me, you have never turned a wrench. And that's ok...not everyone is a wrench turner, but at the same time, you can't bullshit us that have for very long. I'm not affraid of standing up to you or anyone else on this board or in person. I have nothing to hide and certainly nothing to be affraid of from you or anyone here. Online or in person.

I currently have over 70 grand tied up into 2 NSX's and dropping another $18,000.00 into motor set up that's being done & contributed too by a few on this board into my green NSX that will make 700+ rwhp if I want it too. It's not a money issue really, it's a quality of work issue and the brotherhood we share to many of us Chris. Something you just don't and probably will never understand. Other's may not agree with me, so what, this is my personal opinion (which is in fact shared by many) and I could care less what the others think. They are not picking up my tab or paying my bills. Many of us talk off this board Chris...you do know there is a life off this board that many of us share together about NSX's, right ?

No big deal, I'll leave it alone from now on comment wise. I've said enough. We'll just chalk it up to one big misunderstanding, you go your way and I'll go mine.

I'm opening my own shop in the next few months here in Arizona and we'll see what happens then.

Take care Chris.
Jim

 

[Coz]

Re: traveling to tempe to pick up my NSX

Chris,

I'm sure that's how you want to remember it Chris, but that's not how it all went down.

First off, the pulley wasn't free, you took my hi boost pulley as a trade for your low boost pulley. Which was later removed and I ended buying another hi boost pulley.

Yes, I brought the car to you to have several things done. I must admit you did do some good things to the car such as suspension work. But that's about it.

Then you find the 16:1 problem because I wanted it dyno'd to check things out. It was not your idea. But when things were discovered, your fix was putting back in a new FMU at 280.00 and adjusting the fuel ratio screw so far back out it was jammed in that position and then installed the same 250cc injectors for another 475.00, knowing full well this isn't how you fix this type of problem by throwing the same parts into it that it already had. Then's there's the labor at 7 hours at 78.00 per hour. Not to mention the fact that you didn't even finish securing the FMU other than by tie wrapping it to the strut bar. And when I asked you to finish the job, you informed you that you were going to charge time and meterials again for a job that should have been finsihed the first time around. Bullshit Chris. Get your facts straight.

If I was under "Extreme Financial Burden" as you put it, would I have spent almost 10 grand at your shop inside of 6 weeks? Right, what color is the sky in your world Chris ?

Yes, you recommended the stand alone, but after taking me down the road and charging me for fixes you knew in the beginning were not going to work. For being such an expert with NSX's, I would have thought you should have known that from the beginning and made that very clear before hand. The fact is you didn't until after the 1300.00 and when we were standing at the Dyno shop for the 3rd time.

Yes, I took the car to Autowave and personally went through it with them. And gee, since I was under such a "Financial Burden", spent another 8 grand re-doing what you did and fixing what you never found or even looked for during this situation or your Free Inspection. You're to funny man....

No one has ever said that the SC problem was created by you. What has been said and I will continue to say is your work was sloppy, inept and all you did was milk me for money with this issue that was leading down what you hoped was another path for more money. And those are the facts, simple as that.

I brought you a mess, yes...and it wasn't your doing. But you didn't really make it better. You hooked up vacuum lines wrong, didn't find the major tear in the Compech bypass hose and there were other things as well such as the throttle body out of calibration which I bought from you. There's more, but what's the point. No, you didn't cost me a motor, but you sure could have had I not taken to Autowave.

Discounts ? Right. A bill for 1337.57 to fix nothing and for parts that were worthless in the long run is not much of a discount. You want to buy the parts back ? I still have them, they were only on the car for a few weeks..

Doesn't matter Chris..the fact is I wouldn't trust you to touch my lawn mower motor let alone either one of my NSX's again. Others can do what they want, but these are my cars and it's my money I'm spending so it's my choice.

I'm sure I'll see you around Chris and I'll be more than happy to discuss this face to face with you in greater detail. If this is what you think and believe is treating a customer so well, you have a lot to learn.

I'm not really mad at you Chris, just very let down that I had put my trust in you and was let down. I would have spent a lot more money with you had you done the right thing from the beginning. I'm sure this doesn't happen with everyone you deal with, but it did happen to me and that's all that matters to me.

As a result, in the last 2 months I've spend another 18 grand building a motor and upgrading many other things on my car with other vendors. Not bad for being in such a "Financial Burden", huh Chris. Too funny.

No big deal anymore Chris, I am going to let it go and continue to more on. It's all water under the bridge and a waste of energy now.
Take care and I'll see you around I'm sure at some point.
Jim

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Jim --

All I can do is reiterate the following facts:

1. We discovered the defects with your car and caught the problems before they resulted in serious damage to your engine.

2. Based on our findings, we recommended diagnosing the fuel delivery problems causing the extreme lean conditions of your car.

Diagnosis of a fuel system problem, just as with an electrical problem, requires a methodical approach replacing or repairing the components we suspect the most and that are the least expensive / least intensive to replace / repair.

We did just this - replacing or repairing components including offering you these parts at cost or discounted to help you out. We did not "throw parts at your car" as you suggest - getting approval from you every step of the way since you stood in our shop every minute that the car was worked on including the time that I spent with you on the dyno showing you the physical evidence of the running condition of your car.

3. Our last recommendation after finding the FMU and injectors to be in working order was to replace the fuel pump and tune the car with a proper engine management system. You declined this recommendation and then took the car to another shop to have this exact work that we recommended completed.

We went out of our way to accommodate you, and for whatever reason, the result was poor. I wish you would have picked up the phone or dropped me an e-mail or somehow communicated to me one on one about your frustrations. I feel confident that whatever we did do or didn't do in your mind could have been worked out since all five of us here are level headed reasonable individuals concerned and driven by our customer's satisfaction and enjoyement of their cars.

I wish you continued success and enjoyment with your NSX.

cheers,
-- Chris

 

[Coz]

Whatever Chris.
Discussing this with you any further is a waste of my time.
I've taken my business elsewhere.